Does queueing break when the cast time reaches 1 second or when the spell cast time is exactly the same as the global cooldown? It would seem odd to me if you could queue a spell while in GCD but only after you are one second in to the cast.

If you can only queue a spell when you are casting but out of the GCD then has queueing ever worked for Wrath casts?

But you see what I'm getting at here. Wrath is going to be awkward anytime the final cast time is less (1.0s + lag). The idea that you're going to be able to run a clean Solar cycle right up until your cast time hits 1s, where it would suddenly be ruined by the GCD, is illusory. Wrath at any level of haste won't queue properly.

It's been a few weeks since I looked the guts of WrathCalcs, but IIRC it treats a spell as queued (0 delay) if the cast time is over 1s, and clipped (1s + 2* lag) if the cast time is under 1s (I specifically remember having a NG-Wrath cast time listed higher than my non-NG cast time). The sharp step you're seeing at 1s is a consequence of this model, but I'd be careful to map out exactly how casting lag works in these conditions before we expect Solar cycles to work well.

Yeah, I think I remember that popping into my head a while back, but I never got around to pursuing it. I think you're right, though, that Wrath queuing is always problematic. It may be the case, though, that they'll leave in the 50% GCD change reduction from a NG'd Wrath that they added. If that's the case, then it may make Wrath queuing nicer. Regardless of the interaction with haste, though, there's still going to be a sharper line than before. Before, as crit increased, you'd have a higher percentage of casts affected by GCD clipping. Now, either all of them are, or none of them are (or close enough as no matter), and it won't be heavily affected by your crit. Haste won't affect Wrath pretty much at all past a certain point, ~12% from gear.

So it seems the Moonkin consensus is that our rotation will continue to stand, even with the current NG changes? If that's the case, then it seems like the real benefit of the change will be a little less DPS loss when you execute the wrong Eclipse cycle?

For people who wants to review my code:

feralbynight - Google Code

Disclaimer:
the code is a bit "spaghetti", I usually don't erase old code parts, for istance there is still powershifting code and so on. The program works for both cat and bear, at the begining you must choce gear/simulation and many parameter. You should put then changing code string (variable definition) there is no comand line or interface, so you should rebuild it every time.

Known issue:
- manglespam code doesn't work properly
- barkskin usage still need to be fully implemented
- trinkets usage still need to be fully implemented (atm they are averaged out into the gear)
- berserking enchant still need to be fully implemented (atm they are averaged out into the gear)
- Atm the code is made with a very large time sample, you can easly reduce it, with such a large time frame some variable doesn't work properly (nothing important, only statistical ones) simply change them from "int" to "unsigned long int".
- Haste has a resolution of about 1% due to time steps (0.01 seconds) so if you want to see real dps increase due to haste you should do some math after simulation.

P.S.
I think is better that you post question and so on via private message to avoid going off-topic.

While it has been mentioned that, with the changes to NG, there is a break point of haste rating, above which a Solar Eclipse rotation becomes unattractive due to Wrath clipping, I would suggest that there is a second break point of haste rating, above which the (already preferable) Lunar Eclipse makes a jump upward in dps.

The reason is the 3 second duration of NG. At a point where haste reduces the normal cast time of Starfire below 1.5 seconds, we will be able to cast three hasted Starfire for each crit.

With the usual raid and talent haste buffs, the haste rating required would be 810, if I didn't mess up the calculation.

To be checked:

- how practical is it to achieve this haste rating (including Ulduar gear)?
- how much crit / spell power potential would it sacrifice?
- what is preferable, spell power / crit heavy gear with Solar Eclipse (staying below the first haste rating break point), or haste heavy gear with Lunar Eclipse (going above the second haste rating break point)?

Edit: It's three Starfires of course, not two.

It does seem it could split moonkins into 2 groups. One going for 12% gear haste and using solar eclipse freely while stacking crit. And other still massing haste to the point of scenario presented by gormane above. 2 starfires under NG, which means, raidbuffed as we are, almost 100% NG uptime (with the exclusion of dots). Solar eclipse branch would be in similar situation, having near constant NG uptime through their superior crit and lower wrath cast time.

No doubt it'll be determined which path is better dps, i'm having a hard time believing wrath eclipse could surpass lunar (with BL speaking so loudly against it). But i for one would welcome equality of the two paths. Perhaps two sets of gear, for depending on the encounter one can definitely shine more than the other. A choice in gearing and bit of a change in playing style that doesnt mean you cant do comparable dps.

I'm not sure that there is a viable gear set that stacks crit and doesn't stack haste. A lot of the current BiS gear has both crit and haste. In order to skip on haste, you have to take spirit or hit, and we don't need that much hit to get to the cap which leaves us taking the (less desirable) spirit, especially as we move into higher ilevel gear where those items that give hit will be giving more per piece, potentially reducing the number of items we need with hit on them.

Also take into consideration that DoT's do not scale with crit at all, while haste at least reduces the GCD which has an effect on their effective cast time.

@charriu
Yes, 3 starfires not 2.


Itemization might be an issue, but as i look at our frostfire mages, they're all sitting on 11-13% gear haste. So it shouldnt be that difficult, especialy with ulduar items, some of which go double in 1 stat and skipping spirit/hit.

Even so, we take 0 advantage of BL with solar eclipse (might just switch to lunar during it) and, as you say, dots get no benefit from it.

If blizz meant it that way (which i kinda doubt) i think it's a great idea, but very likely needs few other adjustments to be viable.

Hi all again.
First of all I should say "sorry" due to an error with hit within my simulation. I was lucky (and all the people following my road to gear up) because it seems that the "best in slot" gear choce didn't changed too much except maybe for gemming choce (agility vs. hit), also if you choce to gem and change the only 2 items that changed graduatory (badge ring instead of , Stalk-Skin Belt instead of Belt of the Tortured, Ruthlessness) you will only gain about 30 dps (from 6672 to 7002) but you will not be hit/exp capped, I think I'll stay with hit cap also if it's a little less dps.

I should also say thanks to A Civilian and Allev for their feedbacks.

A Civilian revisioning my code found an error: basically I was cutting 80% of energy on a missed rake, mangle, shred instead on 20% as it should be.
Also Allev found 2 "minor" bugs into sim: expertise was rounded like character sheets rounding (25-26, etc..) while in game mechanics it use to be a floating point value, the change is obviosly basically ininfluent for my sim and stats value (I already simply copy & paste hit value into exp value for stat points so there is no problem here). Another minor bug founded by Allev was Feral Fairie Fire, I used melee hit instead of spell hit, the problem here is also 0 due to the fact that in the posted simulation I've assumed 100% FF uptime (moonkin, other ferals, etc..).

3 other things founded into the sims by me:
- Ferocious Bite: I didn't implemented the 30 max energy usage of FB and didn't take into account extra energy while computing FB damage, the difference is small but nevertheless I've changed the code and I'm rerunning the sim.
- I've used shred idol instead of rip idol into my previous sim, this change obviously the outcome for ArPen.
- If you try to remove Primal Gore you will found the same value, this was fixed (I didn't remember to introduce a check into previous sim), the sim outcame will not change from my previous one because I was assuming that you will spec into it.

The most important change:

reviewing the code I noticed a things that we didn't take into account while theorycrafting the hit value about FB and RIP. Basically I was erasing all CP on a FB and RIP misses (I was sure about that, did the changed that kind of mechanic or it was always that way?), while you actually preserve your CPs when you miss a finisher.

The right value for hit/expertise is: 19.9

This will push hit/exp value at the theorycrafted level.

Those values push hit/exp back into priority list, obviosly in real fight hit/exp will value more than the theorycrafted value, mainly due to more stable dps and cycle but you can't quantify it.

Sorry again guys, and special thanks to A Civilian and Allev for finding code errors.

For a complete breakout of the new sims / code /feedback see: FeralbyNight (Cat & Bear simulation tool)

It always was. It seems the value of hit/exp is almost half of what it used to be? Pretty big difference from a small assumption.