Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Druids

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03/27/09, 4:05 PM   #691
Kirian
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by savernon View Post
* Thorns: This spell will now properly use the druid’s spell power to determine its scaling instead of the target’s spell power.

So it sounds like you can have a balance druid cast thorns on you and you get a more powerful version of thorns, or even just cast it on yourself in offspec caster gear and then swap to feral?
Just tested this on the PTR; putting Thorns on yourself in caster gear increases damage from Thorns when you switch back to feral gear. This works for HOTs as well (which surprises me; last I had checked, HOT values changed if you changed gear).

That said, unless you've picked up a lot of great caster gear and have spent the thousands of gold to enchant and gem it, you're much better off having a boomkin hit you with Thorns; in fact, you're better off having a tree hit you with Thorns.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/27/09, 4:11 PM   #692
Cube
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Dark Iron
Originally Posted by Kirian View Post
Just tested this on the PTR; putting Thorns on yourself in caster gear increases damage from Thorns when you switch back to feral gear. This works for HOTs as well (which surprises me; last I had checked, HOT values changed if you changed gear).
HoT's have never changed their tick values if you change gear(either through procs or gear change).

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/27/09, 4:54 PM   #693
StormGust
Von Kaiser
 
StormGust's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
<->
Arthas (EU)
Primal Tenacity: The damage reduction while stunned effect now only works in Cat Form.
Another nerf, more so for PVP than for PVE. (though I start to wonder how blizzard is planing to raise Druid representation in PVP with all those "no-effect on PVP" or "nerf to PVP" changes)

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/27/09, 6:32 PM   #694
savernon
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Mannoroth
Originally Posted by Kirian View Post
Just tested this on the PTR; putting Thorns on yourself in caster gear increases damage from Thorns when you switch back to feral gear. This works for HOTs as well (which surprises me; last I had checked, HOT values changed if you changed gear).

That said, unless you've picked up a lot of great caster gear and have spent the thousands of gold to enchant and gem it, you're much better off having a boomkin hit you with Thorns; in fact, you're better off having a tree hit you with Thorns.
True, a boomkin / tree would (hopefully) have more SP than your offset, but it is nice to know that in a 5 man, or even a 10 if you don't have other druids, that you can significantly up the damage. I believe thorns scales at ~13% of SP, so that is a healthy addition of damage.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/27/09, 6:51 PM   #695
Ja7us
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Steamwheedle Cartel
Originally Posted by StormGust View Post
Another nerf, more so for PVP than for PVE. (though I start to wonder how blizzard is planing to raise Druid representation in PVP with all those "no-effect on PVP" or "nerf to PVP" changes)
That actually sounds more like a change intended to be a nerf to PT in PvE - 30% less damage taken while stunned is a pretty big advantage for a tank on a fight where you expect to be stunned a lot. The current implementation of Primal Tenacity might as well read "We cannot implement any fight where stunning the tank is an important element," since such a fight would favor druids heavily.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/27/09, 6:52 PM   #696
Lord BEEF
Soda Popinski
 
Lord BEEF's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
You could have some fun with trinkets and thorns too. With a Pandora's Plea and a Living Flame you could get 1355 from trinkets temporarily. (You could go higher with a dying curse, but that would rely on two procs going off at the same time). That would be an extra ~176 thorns damage if it scales at 13%, 308 extra if that wasn't already factoring in brambles.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/27/09, 7:18 PM   #697
Kirian
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by Lord BEEF View Post
You could have some fun with trinkets and thorns too. With a Pandora's Plea and a Living Flame you could get 1355 from trinkets temporarily. (You could go higher with a dying curse, but that would rely on two procs going off at the same time). That would be an extra ~176 thorns damage if it scales at 13%, 308 extra if that wasn't already factoring in brambles.
Thorns scales at 7% -- WoWWiki as original source, but also tested in-game today. Spire of Sunset (461 SP) increased Thorns from 73 per hit to 105 per hit.

That said, this is actually a chunk of DPS on trash--this boosts the casting druid's effective damage by 168 per hit at 2400 SP, without trinket procs/uses. Placed on a tank, that's about 420 DPS vs. a pack of five (assuming attack speed 2.0). That's 84 DPS vs. most bosses. Brambles is therefore worth about 90 DPS (30 per talent point) vs. a boss with no adds. I'd have to ask a boomkin if that increases the value of Brambles enough to take it.

Last edited by Kirian : 03/27/09 at 7:20 PM. Reason: Account for base damage from thorns in Brambles calculation

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/27/09, 8:09 PM   #698
Deathwing
Bald Bull
 
Deathwing's Avatar
 
Orc Warrior
 
Black Dragonflight
So, what's better: carrying around a set of caster gear just to cast thorns on yourself every hour, or hoping the boomkin/tree remembers to do it every 10 minutes?

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/27/09, 8:19 PM   #699
 Adoriele
Happy October 19th!
 
Adoriele's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by Deathwing View Post
So, what's better: carrying around a set of caster gear just to cast thorns on yourself every hour, or hoping the boomkin/tree remembers to do it every 10 minutes?
Finding a guild where you don't have to ask that question.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/27/09, 8:26 PM   #700
Falk
Soda Popinski
 
Falk
Night Elf Druid
 
No WoW Account
I'd settle for anything (even 50 less reflected damage per hit) just to avoid "A more powerful spell is already active".

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/27/09, 8:26 PM   #701
Drashian
Von Kaiser
 
Drashian's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Argent Dawn
Originally Posted by Adoriele View Post
Finding a guild where you don't have to ask that question.
I always recommend ZOMGBuffs to folks in my guild who have trouble remembering to buff. Especially with a 10 minute buff like Thorns, it helps immensely.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/27/09, 8:37 PM   #702
 Adoriele
Happy October 19th!
 
Adoriele's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by Drashian View Post
I always recommend ZOMGBuffs to folks in my guild who have trouble remembering to buff. Especially with a 10 minute buff like Thorns, it helps immensely.
I have a DogTag on my raid frames that knows if someone's a tank, and shows T in green when they're thorns'd (yellow if it's about to run out, red if it's gone). Same for Mark and my Aura. Some of my druids are quite perplexed when I tell them they need to refresh their buffs and I'm not even in the instance (on standby in the raid).

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/28/09, 10:08 AM   #703
Nadir_Eonar
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Eonar (EU)
I guess that although the R&T change is a small nerf to PvE DPS on static fights where we have enough spare combo points to use FB, it does allow for some scaling again. I'm at 55%+ crit in DPS gear when raidbuffed now, and after I regem everything to agility I suspect that I would be close to 60% with the potential to go higher in Ulduar gear, and as such the 50% crit chance effect was excessive anyway. For druids in BiS DPS gear this is probably a 15% or so loss of FB crit rate rather than 25% as it might appear at first glance.

On the thorns change I'm glad I have collected a decent set of balance offspec gear, although prebuffing in that gear might become a litle tiresome. Time to get the 1 hour thorns minor glyph I think.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/28/09, 12:52 PM   #704
Batguus
Von Kaiser
 
Batguus's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Silvermoon (EU)
The thorns change makes my old T1 macro alot more interesting again. What you do is get 3 pieces of the Cenarion set in MC and make a macro using an Outifitter type addon, mine looks like this:

/cast [combat] Thorns
/stopmacro [combat]
/outfitter wear Thorns
/cast Thorns
/outfitter unwear Thorns

And voila you have 15min Thorns when you cast it out of combat.
The disadvantages are that it takes 3 inventory slots, and when you cast it on a player in combat, whilst you arent in combat, you will go into combat from casting Thorns, and will get stuck in Cenarion pieces.
That does make me wonder, is there a macro command to check if your target is in combat?

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/28/09, 4:01 PM   #705
Boevis
Bald Bull
 
Boevis's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Lightbringer
Originally Posted by Ja7us View Post
That actually sounds more like a change intended to be a nerf to PT in PvE - 30% less damage taken while stunned is a pretty big advantage for a tank on a fight where you expect to be stunned a lot. The current implementation of Primal Tenacity might as well read "We cannot implement any fight where stunning the tank is an important element," since such a fight would favor druids heavily.
Except we're not seeing a change to Stoicism, Iron Will, or Icebound Fortitude. Other tanks have stun reduction capabilities, so instead of making any fight with a stun favoring druids (which I'd debate in the presence of IF) they'll not be able to implement any fight where stunning the tank is an important element without completely alienating Druids, much like Fear effects did from release through Hyjal. If they took all of these abilities away, Druids would still be the weakest of the Tanks in any stun situation given our relative lack of defense (+Miss%) compared to the other tanks. Though I am forgetting Barkskin, which assuming it could always be up for stuns, would represent a <7% reduction in damage taken in comparison to the 5.6% miss (which is of varying average DR) of other tanks. As it stands, this is a PvP nerf to one of the least represented classes (0 in the tournament), and a potential PvE nerf that would violate Blizzard's "take the player not the class" stance

Offline
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Druids

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Druid changes Patch 3.08 Sadirin Druids 329 02/01/09 5:14 AM