SimulationCraft - for fur and feather wearers - Page 10

dedmonwakeen · 01/04/10, 6:56 PM

Originally Posted by Allev

So I'm trying to get [Shard of the Crystal Heart] working-- it doesn't auto-use the item, and the syntax over in Player Options doesn't seem to help either. What am I missing?

You have to remember to add a "use_item,name=..." action.

I should just have a generic use_slot action that we can always put in the list. Then we don't need to change the actions when you swap trinkets.

Allev · 01/05/10, 1:23 PM

This worked, thanks. Did I miss some documentation on this somewhere?

dedmonwakeen · 01/05/10, 1:49 PM

Originally Posted by Allev

This worked, thanks. Did I miss some documentation on this somewhere?

Errr. No.

To be honest, Starfox's write-up in the OP is probably the best piece of docs that SimC has. I'm sure he would update it to include this....... if he wasn't banned for a few "grayish" posts.

I will add some trinket examples to Examples.simc so that they show up in the Examples tab of the gui. I will also look into creating a "use_slot" action to simplify this. Requiring a change to the action list every time you flip around your trinkets is just too much...... even by SimC standards.

ramenchef · 01/13/10, 11:03 PM

Over on the rogue boards, Tiny Abomination in a Jar seems to have been modeled/proc rate determined.

[Tiny Abomination in a Jar]
Starting 1-12-10, the proc behavior of this trinket appears to have changed. I have left our original theory here for purposes of comparison. The major change is that weapon procs (poisons + berserking) are no longer able to proc it. This constitutes a fairly significant nerf in practice.

The current theory of this item is as follows:

1) The proc rate is 50%.
2) The attacks generated are yellow attacks but are not normalized.
3) The following things *can* proc Motes:
White attacks
Yellow strikes, including Sinister Strike, Mutilate, Shiv, Eviscerate, Envenom, Feint, Kick, and the initial application of Rupture.
Any weapon specific procs (poisons and Mongoose/Berserking) generated by white attacks.
Hack and Slash procs.
4) The following things *cannot* proc motes.
Manifest Anger procs (that is, the strikes from the trinket itself).
Any procs, from weapons or otherwise, generated from yellow strikes.
Any non weapon specific procs (rep rings, trinkets, Combat Potency, etc.)
Anything else not explicitly listed as possible.
5) The extra strikes granted by the trinket (Manifest Anger) are performed with whichever weapon generated the first mote of the stack that led to the attack.
6) Manifest Anger can proc any effect that a strike with the appropriate weapon normally can, including Poisons, Weapon enchants, trinkets, Combat Potency, and Focused Attacks.

This is their findings to date. It would be great if this was added into SC.

Odas · 01/14/10, 12:39 AM

Is Revitalize modelled in simcraft? Some of the resto druids in my guild have recently picked it up and I believe it provides a non-trivial dps increase. What I am wondering is which class would gain the most benefit? It would probably be best if a "ticks per second" parameter was included to account for rejuvs vs wild growth, multiple druids, glyph of rapid rejuv etc.

Edit:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis Heres a parse on Jaraxxus with 144 energy from revitalize compared to 360 from KotJ. I had an 80% uptime on rejuv and 15% uptime on Wild Growth.

Starfox · 01/14/10, 1:30 AM

Originally Posted by Odas

Is Revitalize modelled in simcraft? Some of the resto druids in my guild have recently picked it up and I believe it provides a non-trivial dps increase. What I am wondering is which class would gain the most benefit? It would probably be best if a "ticks per second" parameter was included to account for rejuvs vs wild growth, multiple druids, glyph of rapid rejuv etc.

Not supported currently, but yea it's one of the few (only?) healing talents which can passively boost someones dps by healing them.

dedmonwakeen · 01/14/10, 8:03 AM

Originally Posted by ramenchef

Over on the rogue boards, Tiny Abomination in a Jar seems to have been modeled/proc rate determined.
<snip>
This is their findings to date. It would be great if this was added into SC.

I have been dragging my feet a bit because it requires a small architecture change allowing me to implement the functionality in ONE place as opposed to in every melee module.

I have a bunch of boring-but-required meetings today, so I'll "multi-task" a bit and see how far I can get on this.

Side note: This architecture change means I'll be able to move the Zod support out of the Hunter module, finally getting that sour taste out of my mouth.....

Videl · 01/18/10, 8:17 PM

Originally Posted by Starfox

Not supported currently, but yea it's one of the few (only?) healing talents which can passively boost someones dps by healing them.

The disc priest talent has essentially the same effect with a 100% chance to give twice as much resource as revitalize with PWS cast, but a 12 second ICD.

@Odas
There's much more math on it in the resto druid thread, but it's far to summarize that energy users are way ahead on the boost from it.

Odas · 01/20/10, 1:00 PM

In an attempt to get a rough approximate value of revitalize in terms of dps I tried to calculate the damagethat one point of energy provides.

Using Rawr I was provided with two methods. The first was to take the predicted value of 2t10 (163.56) and divide it by the energy per second gained assuming 100% uptime on rip (0.45 energy/s) resulting in about 360 damage/energy. The second method was to do the same thing with 4t7. Dps value of 86.28 and 0.22 energy/s resulting in a similar 388.

I then tried to use Simcraft to calculate the same information. When first running Simcraft I saw a number labeled at DPR which I assumed was Damage per Resource. Unfortunately, I noticed that the number was significantly higher. I then found out that the DPR value is calculated by taking the DPS and dividing by the RPS-Out (resources per second out). In my case I had 11194dps and 12.5 RPS-Out resulting in 893.1 RPS. In order to account for only the damage I was doing that depended on energy I multiplied the dps by the percentage of damage not coming from melee (63%) and divided by the RPS-Out resulting in 564 DPR.

This result is still significantly higher than the estimate Rawr came up with. Is there any way to reconcile the difference?

dedmonwakeen · 01/20/10, 1:48 PM

Originally Posted by Odas

In an attempt to get a rough approximate value of revitalize in terms of dps I tried to calculate the damagethat one point of energy provides.

Using Rawr I was provided with two methods. The first was to take the predicted value of 2t10 (163.56) and divide it by the energy per second gained assuming 100% uptime on rip (0.45 energy/s) resulting in about 360 damage/energy. The second method was to do the same thing with 4t7. Dps value of 86.28 and 0.22 energy/s resulting in a similar 388.

I then tried to use Simcraft to calculate the same information. When first running Simcraft I saw a number labeled at DPR which I assumed was Damage per Resource. Unfortunately, I noticed that the number was significantly higher. I then found out that the DPR value is calculated by taking the DPS and dividing by the RPS-Out (resources per second out). In my case I had 11194dps and 12.5 RPS-Out resulting in 893.1 RPS. In order to account for only the damage I was doing that depended on energy I multiplied the dps by the percentage of damage not coming from melee (63%) and divided by the RPS-Out resulting in 564 DPR.

This result is still significantly higher than the estimate Rawr came up with. Is there any way to reconcile the difference?

Examine the abilities individually. The SimC results should display DPR values for each one.

Allev · 01/20/10, 2:46 PM

Originally Posted by Odas

In an attempt to get a rough approximate value of revitalize in terms of dps I tried to calculate the damagethat one point of energy provides.

Using Rawr I was provided with two methods. The first was to take the predicted value of 2t10 (163.56) and divide it by the energy per second gained assuming 100% uptime on rip (0.45 energy/s) resulting in about 360 damage/energy. The second method was to do the same thing with 4t7. Dps value of 86.28 and 0.22 energy/s resulting in a similar 388.

I then tried to use Simcraft to calculate the same information. When first running Simcraft I saw a number labeled at DPR which I assumed was Damage per Resource. Unfortunately, I noticed that the number was significantly higher. I then found out that the DPR value is calculated by taking the DPS and dividing by the RPS-Out (resources per second out). In my case I had 11194dps and 12.5 RPS-Out resulting in 893.1 RPS. In order to account for only the damage I was doing that depended on energy I multiplied the dps by the percentage of damage not coming from melee (63%) and divided by the RPS-Out resulting in 564 DPR.

This result is still significantly higher than the estimate Rawr came up with. Is there any way to reconcile the difference?

The thing that should be throwing you off is clearcasts, since damage from clearcasts is still added into the resources. Your best bet is simply to disable clearcasting by adding

omen_of_clarity=0

In the overrides section. Obviously, you'll do less damage, but your damage-per-ability should stay the same.

Odas · 01/20/10, 10:17 PM

The DPR of shred (335) is close to that of Rawr's prediction. I assume that is because Rawr uses all extra energy on shreds? Is that an accurate assumption for empirical results?

Is there a way to measure the dps done while Berserk is active? I think it would provide some insight into the "Who should get Hysteria?" question.

Allev · 01/21/10, 12:05 AM

You can manipulate WoL to show sections of a fight by highlighting a section of a graph (left-click-drag) and then right clicking and selecting "set to selection" (paraphrasing).

Odas · 01/21/10, 3:56 AM

I realize its possible to check the damage meters on actual parses. I was refering to Simcraft in particular. Is it possible to run 1000 iterations and in addition to showing the overall dps showing the highest dps during any 30 second segments (on a fight by fight basis)?

Allev · 01/21/10, 8:09 AM

It shows a graph of the average of any fight, which will always include a Berserk right at the beginning. There might be some variability at the start, but since Hysteria lasts 30 seconds, you could probably assume that the time from 10-40s will be a good average estimate of damage.

Furion · 01/21/10, 8:41 AM

Is simcraft currently able to line up cooldowns in an optimal way? For example saving the haste pot for trinket procs during bloodlust or synchronizing berserk with trinket(or even ashen verdict ring) internal cds (as long as it won't reduce your total amount of berserks during the fight)?

Allev · 01/21/10, 10:49 AM

You'd have to create a formulaic definition of exactly what you'd want, first. You can conditionally use "if=buff.mjolnir_runestone.up" and the like, although you'd also have to coordinate your attack cycle to work so that you're at full energy. Sadly, a formula for allowable periods to Berserk doesn't have an "easy" solution, although I think it's possible to have one.

Furion · 01/23/10, 5:41 AM

Originally Posted by Allev

Sadly, a formula for allowable periods to Berserk doesn't have an "easy" solution, although I think it's possible to have one.

Well I guess we gotta start somewhere.
"actions+=/speed_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.up"
was an easy dps increase, however
"actions+=/speed_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.up&(buff.deathbringers_will.up|buff.bloodlust.remains< =15)"
yielded a little less dps and I wonder why.

"actions+=/berserk_cat,time_to_die>=180,energy>=80,energy<=90
actions+=/berserk_cat,time_to_die<=180,energy>=80,energy<=90,if=buff.deathbringers_will.up"
Figured I'd start with this as it seemed to be a rather simple rule but it only yielded 6 dps more which seems low but I guess this might be due to the haste proc being useless for berserk. If that kind of DPS increase is all we get on average for finetuning cooldown usage with BiS gear it seems hardly worth the bother.

Starfox · 01/23/10, 8:00 AM

Originally Posted by Furion

Well I guess we gotta start somewhere.
"actions+=/speed_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.up"
was an easy dps increase, however
"actions+=/speed_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.up&(buff.deathbringers_will.up|buff.bloodlust.remains< =15)"
yielded a little less dps and I wonder why.

"actions+=/berserk_cat,time_to_die>=180,energy>=80,energy<=90
actions+=/berserk_cat,time_to_die<=180,energy>=80,energy<=90,if=buff.deathbringers_will.up"
Figured I'd start with this as it seemed to be a rather simple rule but it only yielded 6 dps more which seems low but I guess this might be due to the haste proc being useless for berserk. If that kind of DPS increase is all we get on average for finetuning cooldown usage with BiS gear it seems hardly worth the bother.

actions+=/speed_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.up&(buff.deathbringers_will.up|buff.bloodlust.remains<=15)

Well, this line just optimises speed potion use to the maximum I think, by waiting up to 25 seconds to see if a trinketproc happens

Furion · 01/23/10, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Starfox

actions+=/speed_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.up&(buff.deathbringers_will.up|buff.bloodlust.remains<=15)

Well, this line just optimises speed potion use to the maximum I think, by waiting up to 25 seconds to see if a trinketproc happens

That's exactly what I thought as well however simcraft reports a 4 dps loss over just using:

actions+=/speed_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.up

I'm currently testing with this profile:

druid=BiS
level=80
race=Tauren
talents=http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=11&tal=0000000000000000000000000000550202032322010053120030313511203503012000000000000000000
glyphs=shred/rip/savage_roar
actions=flask,type=endless_rage
actions+=/food,type=hearty_rhino
actions+=/cat_form
actions+=/auto_attack
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/speed_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.up
actions+=/faerie_fire_feral,debuff_only=1
actions+=/tigers_fury,energy<=30,berserk=0
actions+=/berserk_cat,time_to_die>=195,energy>=80,energy<=90
actions+=/berserk_cat,time_to_die<=195,energy>=80,energy<=90,if=buff.deathbringers_will.up
actions+=/savage_roar,cp>=1,savage_roar<=1
actions+=/rip,cp>=5,time_to_die>=6
actions+=/savage_roar,time_to_die>=9,cp>=3,if=buff.savage_roar.remains<=8&dot.rip.remains-buff.savage_roar.remains>=-3
actions+=/ferocious_bite,cp>=5,time_to_die<=6
actions+=/ferocious_bite,cp>=4,time_to_die<=1
actions+=/ferocious_bite,cp>=5,rip>=8,savage_roar>=11
actions+=/shred,extend_rip=1,rip<=4,savage_roar>=3
actions+=/mangle_cat,mangle<=1
actions+=/rake,time_to_die>=9
actions+=/shred,if=(buff.combo_points.stack<=4|dot.rip.remains>=0.8)&dot.mangle.remains>=0&dot.rake.remains>=0.4&(energy>=80|buff.omen_of_clarity.up|dot.rip.remains<=2|buff.berserk.up|cooldown.tigers_fury.remains<=3)
actions+=/shred,time_to_die<=9
actions+=/shred,cp<=0,savage_roar<=2
head=sanctified_lasherweave_headguard,stats=564armor_196ap_114crit_106arpen_183agi_183sta,gems=relentless_earthsiege_20arpen_8agi,enchant=50ap_20crit
neck=sindragosas_cruel_claw,stats=120ap_60haste_68arpen_102agi_102sta,gems=20arpen
shoulders=sanctified_lasherweave_shoulderpads,stats=521armor_165ap_90crit_82arpen_136agi_136sta,gems=20arpen_4agi,enchant=40ap_15crit
chest=sanctified_lasherweave_raiment,stats=694armor_212ap_122crit_106arpen_183agi_183sta,gems=20arpen_10hit_10exp_6agi,enchant=10str_10agi_10sta_10int_10spi
waist=astrylians_sutured_cinch,stats=391armor_181ap_90crit_74arpen_120agi_136sta,gems=34arpen_34arpen_34arpen
legs=sanctified_lasherweave_legguards,stats=608armor_212ap_106exp_122arpen_183agi_183sta,gems=20arpen_20hit_6agi,enchant=75ap_22crit
feet=frostbitten_fur_boots,stats=477armor_181ap_90crit_74arpen_120agi_136sta,gems=20arpen_20arpen,enchant=12crit_12hit
wrists=toskks_maximized_wristguards,stats=304armor_120ap_60crit_68arpen_102agi_102sta,gems=20hit_4agi,enchant=50ap
hands=aldrianas_gloves_of_secrecy,stats=434armor_165ap_74haste_90arpen_128agi_136sta,gems=20arpen_20arpen,enchant=20hit
finger1=ashen_band_of_endless_vengeance,stats=135ap_59hit_59crit_88agi_84sta,gems=10hit_10exp_4agi,enchant=40ap,equip=onattackhit_480ap_1.667%_10dur_60cd
finger2=band_of_the_bone_colossus,stats=120ap_62hit_65haste_102agi_102sta,gems=20arpen,enchant=40ap
trinket1=deathbringers_will,stats=167arpen
trinket2=herkuml_war_token,stats=153haste,equip=onattackhit_17ap_20stack_10dur
back=sylvanas_cunning,stats=182armor_114ap_65crit_57arpen_97agi_97sta,gems=20arpen_8ap,enchant=23haste
main_hand=distant_land,stats=244ap_122crit_122haste_159agi_147sta,gems=20arpen_10str_10agi_10sta_10int_10spi_20hit,enchant=berserking,weapon=staff_2.40speed_625min_938max
ranged=idol_of_the_crying_moon

Latas · 01/26/10, 4:49 AM

Is Owlkin Frenzy properly modeled and if such how do I simulate constant damage auras like Lana'thels shroud of sorrow?

dedmonwakeen · 01/26/10, 8:49 AM

Originally Posted by Latas

Is Owlkin Frenzy properly modeled and if such how do I simulate constant damage auras like Lana'thels shroud of sorrow?

You can model damage with the "damage" raid event, but Owlkin Frenzy is not yet modeled. I skipped that talent because I didn't think it triggered on AoE-ish damage.

Grond · 01/26/10, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Odas

The DPR of shred (335) is close to that of Rawr's prediction. I assume that is because Rawr uses all extra energy on shreds? Is that an accurate assumption for empirical results?" question.

Imo no.

The gain from using a clearcast for Shred is less the the DPS lost from letting Rake, Rip, Mangle or Savage Roar drop.

Between the short timers on Mangle and Rake and waiting on the GCD it is not accurate to assume you can always Shred.

Latas · 01/26/10, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen

You can model damage with the "damage" raid event, but Owlkin Frenzy is not yet modeled. I skipped that talent because I didn't think it triggered on AoE-ish damage.

Usually it doesn't proc off of a lot of the things you would think it should and does off the things you think it shouldn't. However Lana'thel's aura actually does proc it and gives it nice uptime, such that it's worth picking up at least for that fight.

chetal · 02/01/10, 5:09 PM

Is there a simple way to add hysteria to an action list of someone who is not a blood dk?

I have tried many things and cannot seem to get this to work. I basically want to find out who in our guild hysteria would be best to give with some data to back it up.

The order would generally go druids then warriors but based on gear I think it may be better to give to our warriors.