SimulationCraft - for fur and feather wearers - Page 10

Latas · 08/12/09, 8:34 AM

How does the Innervate trigger actually work? It used to be something like "actions+=/innervate,trigger=19000" which I took to mean, when you are 19000 mana from max to use innervate. Now I'm getting things like "actions+=/innervate,trigger=-2000" in my character configs obtained through armory, which is just confusing me.

Also is the list of actions basically setting a priority list? If so, I'm not exactly sure this is the proper way to go without a much bigger list to take into account the time left on eclipse and the time left on buffs and whatnot to get proper optimal eclipse modeling.

Starfox · 08/12/09, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Latas

How does the Innervate trigger actually work? It used to be something like "actions+=/innervate,trigger=19000" which I took to mean, when you are 19000 mana from max to use innervate. Now I'm getting things like "actions+=/innervate,trigger=-2000" in my character configs obtained through armory, which is just confusing me.

Also is the list of actions basically setting a priority list? If so, I'm not exactly sure this is the proper way to go without a much bigger list to take into account the time left on eclipse and the time left on buffs and whatnot to get proper optimal eclipse modeling.

The trigger option for innervate is just so you can set the border from the top (trigger > 0) or from the bottom (trigger < 0) from your mana bar.
Say you have 24000 mana:

actions+=/innervate,trigger=19000

This will use innervate as soon as you are below 5000 (24000 - 19000) mana, you are setting the border starting from max_mana and going down.

actions+=/innervate,trigger=-2000

This will use innervate as soon as you are below 2000 mana, you basically just set the border from 0 and going up.

I use -2000 in standard actions because I got pointed to some profiles which had < 20000 mana, so in fact innervate never got used for them when they ran oom in the sim, this does not happen with trigger=-2000

Also MF and IS have the min_eclipse_left>=X

actions+=/moonfire,min_eclipse_left>=10

As this is moonfire, it checks for lunar eclipse, so if the buff is up for less than 10s, it will skip the moonfire cast.
Works the same for IS and solar.
Also note that ever spell has 'skip_on_eclipse=1', which tells the sim to skip the spell if any of the two eclipse buffs are up, but IS/MF also offer the possibility to do

actions+=/insect_swarm,skip_on_eclipse=-1
actions+=/moonfire,skip_on_eclipse=-1

Now IS will be skipped if lunar eclipse is up, MF will be skipped if solar eclipse is up, added these because I thought it could be nice to be able skip IS/MF if the 'other eclipse' is up

caldarp · 08/12/09, 11:06 AM

hi,

I'm using sthe scalefactors.bat portion of simcraft to plan gear upgrades. So say haste gets valued higher than crit, than [Belt of Arctic Life] would be better than [Cord of the White Dawn]. But what happens if you add 10 haste? Does the same preference still holds (thinking about the 400haste mark for balance druids)

Do you think it's possible to model something into scalefactors.bat so that it signals the point of diminishing returns (a distinct change in the relative factors)? That way you could "carefully" examine the upgrade when close to this point?

Starfox · 08/12/09, 1:54 PM

Originally Posted by caldarp

hi,

I'm using sthe scalefactors.bat portion of simcraft to plan gear upgrades. So say haste gets valued higher than crit, than [Belt of Arctic Life] would be better than [Cord of the White Dawn]. But what happens if you add 10 haste? Does the same preference still holds (thinking about the 400haste mark for balance druids)

Do you think it's possible to model something into scalefactors.bat so that it signals the point of diminishing returns (a distinct change in the relative factors)? That way you could "carefully" examine the upgrade when close to this point?

Yea, that's a problem, but you can set up simcraft to counter it.
You can tell simcraft how much hast_rating (and any other stat) it will add when doing scale factor runs

smooth_scale_factors=0 
scale_strength=+90
scale_agility=+90
scale_intellect=+100
scale_spirit=+200
scale_spell_power=+10
scale_attack_power=+150
scale_expertise_rating=-50
scale_armor_penetration_rating=+50
scale_hit_rating=-70
scale_crit_rating=+50
scale_haste_rating=+50

SC runs one time without any added stats, and gets BaseDPS
Then, e.g. haste:
It adds scale_haste_rating to every profile, and runs the sim again and gets HasteScaleDPS
Scale factor is then just
(BaseDPS + HasteScaleDPS) / scale_haste_rating

The higher you choose scale_haste_rating to be, the further apart BaseDPS and HasteScaleDPS will be and this smooths out errors faster, so you can run fewer iterations with higher values. The problem is when a stat has a certain point where it loses some value, because this also 'gets smoothed out' accross the whole difference of the two DPS value.
To counter this you set scale_haste_rating to a rather small value, 50 for example, BUT you have to increase the iterations to something way higher then 10000, more like 50000 or 100000.

caldarp · 08/13/09, 1:39 AM

figured out that it would be something similar, but thanks for the exact clarification.
My point however is that i'd like to have simcraft give me warnings or points of interest to watch out for for my specific spec. I'm also thinking about the diference in decreasing stats or incresing stats. when i'm exactly hitcapped, hit wouldn't bring a dps contribution if i increase it (and therefro could be 0), but choosing a piece with less hit would probably be a bad choice!

mesh7 · 08/13/09, 8:19 AM

How does the new idol of mutilation rate vs. the shred idol using the BiS items from the above lists? I've just got enough emblems for the idol, but im not sure if i want to wait. I've heard the new idol has a near 80% uptime but this is anecdotal information from people on my server.

Starfox · 08/13/09, 8:28 AM

Originally Posted by mesh7

How does the new idol of mutilation rate vs. the shred idol using the BiS items from the above lists? I've just got enough emblems for the idol, but im not sure if i want to wait. I've heard the new idol has a near 80% uptime but this is anecdotal information from people on my server.

Currently modeled as 70% proc chance, no ICD.

SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.2.0 ( iterations=9999, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1, smooth_rng=0 )

DPS Ranking:
  15974 100.0%  Raid
   8033  50.3%  Druid_T8_Mutilation
   7952  49.7%  Druid_T8_RavenousBeast

Player=Druid_T8_Mutilation (feral)  DPS=8033.1 (Error=+/-4.7 Range=+/-879)  DPR=649.4  RS=12.4/12.1  (energy)
  Origin: http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=13000407
  Core Stats:  strength=114(20)  agility=1491(1414)  stamina=1144(1044)  intellect=158(20)  spirit=181(20)  health=14860  mana=2090
  Spell Stats:  power=0(0)  hit=7.21%(189)  crit=17.70%(684)  penetration=0(0)  haste=4.88%(160)  mp5=0
  Attack Stats  power=3966(1987)  hit=5.76%(189)  crit=40.27%(684)  expertise=5.67%(104)  penetration=46.10%(568)  haste=6.34%(160)
  Defense Stats:  armor=6553(3571)
  Glyphs: rip/shred/savage_roar/the_wild/unburdened_rebirth/dash
  Actions:
    ferocious_bite        Count=  7.2|39.6sec  DPE= 18241| 5%  DPET= 15862  DPR= 405.8  pDPS= 436  Miss=2.2%  Hit=9030  Crit=20394|26914|83.5%  Dodge=0.9%
    melee                 Count=431.5| 0.7sec  DPE=  1916|34%  DPET=  2760  DPR=   0.0  pDPS=2758  Miss=2.2%  Hit=1136  Crit= 2575| 3413|61.4%  Glance= 852|24.0%  Dodge=0.8%
    rake                  Count= 28.8|10.5sec  DPE=  8756|10%  DPET=  7613  DPR= 293.9  pDPS= 840  Miss=0.6%  Hit= 770  Crit= 1747| 2151|59.5%  Dodge=0.8%  TickCount=82  Tick=2606
    rip                   Count= 10.7|27.6sec  DPE= 42329|19%  DPET= 36807  DPR=1646.9  pDPS=1506  Miss=0.2%  Dodge=0.8%  TickCount=112  Tick=2191  CritTick=4965|5044|66.2%
    shred                 Count= 81.7| 3.6sec  DPE=  9145|31%  DPET=  7952  DPR= 331.4  pDPS=2492  Miss=2.2%  Hit=5314  Crit=12040|15038|59.4%  Dodge=0.8%
  Constant Buffs: cat_form
  Dynamic Buffs:
    berserk           : start=2.0   refresh=0.0    interval=186.9  uptime=10%
    berserking_mh     : start=5.1   refresh=2.2    interval=52.1   uptime=30%  benefit=31%  trigger= 1%
    combo_points      : start=35.6  refresh=110.9  interval=8.4    uptime=76%
    comets_trail      : start=6.3   refresh=0.0    interval=50.4   uptime=21%  trigger=10%
    mjolnir_runestone : start=6.7   refresh=0.0    interval=48.4   uptime=22%  trigger=15%
    mutilation        : start=2.4   refresh=53.0   interval=107.8  uptime=97%  trigger=70%
    omen_of_clarity   : start=27.0  refresh=1.2    interval=10.7   uptime= 6%  benefit= 8%  trigger= 5%
    savage_roar       : start=1.7   refresh=15.7   interval=131.3  uptime=99%  benefit=99%
    tigers_fury       : start=9.9   refresh=0.0    interval=31.2   uptime=16%  benefit=17%
  Up-Times:
      2.3% : energy_cap                    
     79.8% : rake                          
     73.9% : rip                           
  Procs:
     26.3 |  14.45sec : combo_points_wasted
     65.6 |   4.55sec : primal_fury
      3.9 |  52.91sec : tier8_2pc
  Gains:
       76.8 : energy_refund   
     2947.8 : energy_regen      (overflow=1.6%)
     1098.1 : omen_of_clarity 
       11.7 : primal_precision
      596.9 : tigers_fury     

Player=Druid_T8_RavenousBeast (feral)  DPS=7952.0 (Error=+/-4.7 Range=+/-951)  DPR=642.9  RS=12.4/12.1  (energy)
  Origin: http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=13000407
  Core Stats:  strength=114(20)  agility=1491(1414)  stamina=1144(1044)  intellect=158(20)  spirit=181(20)  health=14860  mana=2090
  Spell Stats:  power=0(0)  hit=7.21%(189)  crit=17.70%(684)  penetration=0(0)  haste=4.88%(160)  mp5=0
  Attack Stats  power=3966(1987)  hit=5.76%(189)  crit=40.27%(684)  expertise=5.67%(104)  penetration=46.10%(568)  haste=6.34%(160)
  Defense Stats:  armor=6553(3571)
  Glyphs: rip/shred/savage_roar/the_wild/unburdened_rebirth/dash
  Actions:
    ferocious_bite        Count=  7.0|40.7sec  DPE= 17699| 5%  DPET= 15391  DPR= 393.9  pDPS= 413  Miss=2.1%  Hit=8865  Crit=20075|26463|81.2%  Dodge=0.8%
    melee                 Count=431.5| 0.7sec  DPE=  1840|33%  DPET=  2651  DPR=   0.0  pDPS=2649  Miss=2.2%  Hit=1113  Crit= 2522| 3347|58.8%  Glance= 835|24.0%  Dodge=0.8%
    rake                  Count= 28.8|10.6sec  DPE=  8619|10%  DPET=  7495  DPR= 289.4  pDPS= 827  Miss=0.6%  Hit= 764  Crit= 1732| 2136|57.0%  Dodge=0.8%  TickCount=82  Tick=2569
    rip                   Count= 10.6|27.7sec  DPE= 41048|18%  DPET= 35694  DPR=1595.0  pDPS=1455  Miss=0.2%  Dodge=0.8%  TickCount=112  Tick=2164  CritTick=4904|4982|63.5%
    shred                 Count= 82.0| 3.6sec  DPE=  9537|33%  DPET=  8293  DPR= 345.4  pDPS=2608  Miss=2.2%  Hit=5639  Crit=12778|15908|57.0%  Dodge=0.8%
  Constant Buffs: cat_form
  Dynamic Buffs:
    berserk           : start=2.0   refresh=0.0    interval=186.9  uptime=10%
    berserking_mh     : start=5.2   refresh=2.2    interval=51.7   uptime=30%  benefit=31%  trigger= 1%
    combo_points      : start=35.4  refresh=109.8  interval=8.5    uptime=76%
    comets_trail      : start=6.3   refresh=0.0    interval=50.4   uptime=21%  trigger=10%
    mjolnir_runestone : start=6.7   refresh=0.0    interval=48.4   uptime=22%  trigger=15%
    omen_of_clarity   : start=27.0  refresh=1.2    interval=10.7   uptime= 6%  benefit= 8%  trigger= 5%
    savage_roar       : start=1.8   refresh=15.7   interval=130.6  uptime=99%  benefit=99%
    tigers_fury       : start=9.9   refresh=0.0    interval=31.2   uptime=16%  benefit=17%
  Up-Times:
      2.3% : energy_cap                    
     79.7% : rake                          
     73.7% : rip                           
  Procs:
     25.3 |  14.86sec : combo_points_wasted
     63.2 |   4.73sec : primal_fury
      3.8 |  53.00sec : tier8_2pc
  Gains:
       76.9 : energy_refund   
     2948.1 : energy_regen      (overflow=1.6%)
     1099.1 : omen_of_clarity 
       11.3 : primal_precision
      596.8 : tigers_fury     

Auras and De-Buffs:
  Constant: earth_and_moon/faerie_fire/improved_faerie_fire/improved_moonkin/mangle/moonkin
  Dynamic:

Waiting:
    25.6% : Druid_T8_RavenousBeast
    25.6% : Druid_T8_Mutilation

Baseline Performance:
  TotalEvents   = 39216056
  MaxEventQueue = 32
  TargetHealth  = 4790292
  SimSeconds    = 2999418
  CpuSeconds    = 26.140
  SpeedUp       = 114744

RNG global Actual/Expected Roll=0.999660 Range=1.000000 Gauss=1.000000

mesh7 · 08/13/09, 5:39 PM

Wow. I'm quite suprised at the results, was expecting a slight edge, not an ~80dps difference. I'll see if I notice a difference in most boss fights. Thanks again.

Starfox · 08/13/09, 6:05 PM

Originally Posted by mesh7

Wow. I'm quite suprised at the results, was expecting a slight edge, not an ~80dps difference. I'll see if I notice a difference in most boss fights. Thanks again.

Without an internal cooldown the mutilation idol is just an item +200 for catform.

mesh7 · 08/13/09, 7:07 PM

Originally Posted by Starfox

Without an internal cooldown the mutilation idol is just an item +200 for catform.

From what im seeing, there is no internal cooldown however, the buff will not refresh the 200agi buff unless there's <7-8 seconds remaining. (Which was pretty much 100% uptime)

So that 200agi buff in a typical raid - Kings x SotF x MotW (2%) should be a ~237.6 agi buff with close to 100% uptime regardless if you have a mangle bot or not. (this won't affect your calculations im just throwing it out there for info =D

Starfox · 08/13/09, 9:12 PM

Originally Posted by mesh7

From what im seeing, there is no internal cooldown however, the buff will not refresh the 200agi buff unless there's <7-8 seconds remaining.

What? No cooldown, or only refreshing when <7-8s left (which would imply some kind of cd).
Could you just pool to full energy and try to get back-to-back procs?

ramenchef · 08/15/09, 6:41 PM

Is there any other way to import gearsets to test? Currently, wowhead is missing a majority of the items found in Heroic Collesium.

Starfox · 08/15/09, 7:57 PM

Originally Posted by ramenchef

Is there any other way to import gearsets to test? Currently, wowhead is missing a majority of the items found in Heroic Collesium.

Having the same problems with the wowhead profiles used for autogeneration.
[Comet's Trail] was long not available on wowhead

wowhead=13000407 name=Druid_T8_00_55_16_M save=Druid_T8_00_55_16_M.simcraft trinket1=comets_trail,id=45609

Use wowhead 13000407 etc., but replace item on the first trinketslot with the one where id=45609. SimCraft will then try

Armory
wowhead
mmo-champion

to get the iteminformation. You can replace any slot this way, or even make a .simcraft with just names+itemid and then let the simcraft download everything and write it to a new .simcraft.

dedmonwakeen · 08/15/09, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by ramenchef

Is there any other way to import gearsets to test? Currently, wowhead is missing a majority of the items found in Heroic Collesium.

You can also import a Rawr.xml character save file.

I'm currently investing warcrafter to see if I can snark enough data from their site to sim profiles there.

ramenchef · 08/16/09, 3:21 AM

I tried importing to rawr only to get:
d:\simcraft>simcraft.exe rawr=cat.xml

simcraft: Unable to determine character name and class in Rawr Character Save XM
L.

simcraft: Unable to parse Rawr Character Save file 'cat.xml'
simcraft: Unknown option/value pair: 'rawr' : 'cat.xml'
simcraft: ERROR! Incorrect option format..