SimulationCraft - for fur and feather wearers - Page 2

Erdluf · 03/10/09, 2:28 PM

Just did some simulationcraft r1754 runs, using the druid_t8 file (this is actually t7 gear with 3.1 rules)

SF rotation means Wrath just to proc Eclipse.
Wr rotation means SF just to proc Wrath. No extra SF casts to extend MF.

SF rotation: 5805 DPS
Wr rotation: 5692 DPS

I removed 200 haste from each:

SF: 5630
Wr: 5724

I believe simulationcraft uses a 0.1s lag, with double-lag charged for GCD clipping. Still, I was a bit surprised to see Wr DPS actually go up.

With the original gear modified -200 Haste, +200 Crit (which seems plausible. I don't pretend to know where that gear is though):

SF: 5791
Wr: 5905

which would confirm that SF scales better with haste than with crit. It does appear that with low-haste, high-crit gear, you could make a strong argument for a Wrath rotation.

In all of the runs (fully raid buffed), SF mana was fairly stable. Wrath mana always lasted the entire five minutes, but it was being depleted.

dedmonwakeen · 03/10/09, 3:55 PM

Originally Posted by ramenchef

From what I can tell, feral dps is well over the top with the latest changes. I would estimate that the latest build of simulationcraft is showing near 7k dps for ferals. The question then becomes if ferals fall back to early TBC era where they were good early on but other classes/specs scale ahead in future tiers.

Kitty dps has crossed 7k in simulationcraft now...... I just fixed a bug related to the gcd while in cat form......

charriu · 03/10/09, 5:03 PM

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen

Kitty dps has crossed 7k in simulationcraft now...... I just fixed a bug related to the gcd while in cat form......

At least it's still behind the HaT-Rogue... We'll see some nerfs in the next patch, I guess.

Starfox · 03/10/09, 6:17 PM

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen

Kitty dps has crossed 7k in simulationcraft now...... I just fixed a bug related to the gcd while in cat form......

It was crossing 7k for me even before that that gcd fix, but now it is at 7.3k, only beaten by the HaT+Envenomglyph rogue.
I don't know, but the damage of rip is a bit ridiculous from my point of view.
Rip: ~24% of total damage, but only used every ~30sec
When I have it with rip, a question to ferals: Is the critchance on dots reduced vs bossmobs? Is there any testing on this? Because right now rip/rake dot-crit% do not suffer from this reduction.

Here are the numbers with the fixed gcd for catform

SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.1.0 (iterations=6666, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1)


DPS Ranking:
  14549 100.0%  Raid
   7333  50.4%  Druid_T8_00_55_16
   7225  49.6%  Druid_T8_00_55_16_M

Player=Druid_T8_00_55_16  DPS=7332.6 (Error=+/-5.1 Range=+/-752)  DPR=598.4  RPS=12.3/12.0  (energy)
  Core Stats:  strength=81  agility=1165  stamina=1085  intellect=115  spirit=135  health=18472  mana=3746
  Spell Stats:  power=0  hit=10.1%  crit=16.7%  penetration=0  haste=10.7%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats:  power=6771  hit=8.1%  crit=29.1%  expertise=6.2  penetration=0  haste=13.9%
  Actions:
    ferocious_bite        Count=  8.5|34.4sec  DPE=15732| 6%  DPET=13678  DPR= 257.5  Miss=0.0%  Hit=6840  Crit=15968|18761|97.6%  Dodge=0.3%
    melee                 Count=434.7| 0.7sec  DPE= 1372|27%  DPET= 2009  DPR=   1.$  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 890  Crit= 2021| 2274|47.6%  Glance= 668|24.0%  Dodge=0.3%
    rake                  Count= 27.3|11.1sec  DPE=13857|17%  DPET=12049  DPR= 422.3  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 791  Crit= 1796| 2182|47.4%  Dodge=0.3%  TickCount=80  Tick=2576  CritTick=5845|6109|52.4%
    rip                   Count=  9.7|30.6sec  DPE=51915|23%  DPET=45132  DPR=1882.3  Miss=0.0%  Dodge=0.3%  TickCount=123  Tick=2469  CritTick=5597|5737|52.7%
    shred                 Count= 82.0| 3.6sec  DPE= 6919|26%  DPET= 6016  DPR= 265.3  Miss=0.0%  Hit=4318  Crit= 9793|10350|47.8%  Dodge=0.3%

Player=Druid_T8_00_55_16_M  DPS=7224.8 (Error=+/-5.0 Range=+/-777)  DPR=589.7  RPS=12.3/12.0  (energy)
  Core Stats:  strength=81  agility=1165  stamina=1085  intellect=115  spirit=135  health=18472  mana=3746
  Spell Stats:  power=0  hit=10.1%  crit=16.7%  penetration=0  haste=10.7%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats:  power=6771  hit=8.1%  crit=29.1%  expertise=6.2  penetration=0  haste=13.9%
  Actions:
    ferocious_bite        Count=  9.0|32.6sec  DPE=15712| 7%  DPET=13663  DPR= 257.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=6845  Crit=15943|18761|97.7%  Dodge=0.3%
    mangle_cat            Count= 26.1|11.6sec  DPE= 4601| 6%  DPET= 4001  DPR= 142.5  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2880  Crit= 6537| 7029|47.3%  Dodge=0.3%
    melee                 Count=434.7| 0.7sec  DPE= 1373|28%  DPET= 2011  DPR=   1.$  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 890  Crit= 2021| 2274|47.7%  Glance= 669|24.0%  Dodge=0.3%
    rake                  Count= 25.1|12.0sec  DPE=14003|16%  DPET=12177  DPR= 421.7  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 791  Crit= 1793| 2182|47.6%  Dodge=0.3%  TickCount=74  Tick=2606  CritTick=5910|6109|52.6%
    rip                   Count=  9.9|30.2sec  DPE=51551|24%  DPET=44832  DPR=1852.7  Miss=0.0%  Dodge=0.3%  TickCount=124  Tick=2469  CritTick=5597|5737|52.5%
    shred                 Count= 62.0| 4.7sec  DPE= 6934|20%  DPET= 6030  DPR= 323.2  Miss=0.0%  Hit=4324  Crit= 9806|10350|47.9%  Dodge=0.3%

Gains:

    Druid_T8_00_55_16_M:
        energy_regen=2961.8
        omen_of_clarity=1051.2
        primal_precision=1.4
        tigers_fury=599.9

    Druid_T8_00_55_16:
        energy_regen=2963.0
        omen_of_clarity=1047.3
        primal_precision=1.4
        tigers_fury=600.0

Procs:

    Druid_T8_00_55_16_M:
        combo_points=142.1|2.1sec
        darkmoon_greatness=7.0|42.5sec
        omen_of_clarity=25.4|11.7sec
        primal_fury=54.0|5.5sec

    Druid_T8_00_55_16:
        combo_points=138.7|2.1sec
        darkmoon_greatness=7.0|42.5sec
        omen_of_clarity=25.3|11.8sec
        primal_fury=52.1|5.7sec

Up-Times:

    Global:
        100.0% : blood_frenzy
        100.0% : mangle
        100.0% : master_poisoner
        100.0% : savage_combat
        100.0% : totem_of_wrath

    Druid_T8_00_55_16_M:
        32.4% : berserking_mh
         0.5% : energy_cap
        100.0% : replenishment
        99.5% : savage_roar

    Druid_T8_00_55_16:
        31.8% : berserking_mh
         0.4% : energy_cap
        100.0% : replenishment
        99.5% : savage_roar

Waiting:
    42.8% : Druid_T8_00_55_16_M
    44.6% : Druid_T8_00_55_16

Waiting skyrocketed from 24% to over 40%, but dps also increased by ~280.
I set regen_periodicity=0.2 for this simulation, pretty weird that with it set to 0.2 the average fight length is very close to 300sec, but when i let it at the default (1.0), the average fightlength is about 280sec.

ramenchef · 03/11/09, 2:26 AM

What is periodicity? if you mean time between energy ticks, it should probably be set to 0.1 due to rogues/druids regenerating energy at a rate of 10 energy/1 second in 1 energy intervals. I'd actually be interested in seeing if that changes anything.

charriu · 03/11/09, 8:44 AM

Originally Posted by Starfox

I don't know, but the damage of rip is a bit ridiculous from my point of view.
Rip: ~24% of total damage, but only used every ~30sec

Rip seems a bit high, indeed. But not much...

Rip with all glyphs (shred, rip, sr), 2t7 and [Idol of Worship]:

Per Tick: tickDmg = (39+99*CP [base dmg]+AP*0.06+21*CP [idol])*1.36 [glyphed sr]*1.1 [naturalist]*1.3 [mangle]
Total: ripDmg = tickDmg * (6 [base] + 2 [rip glyph] + 2 [2t7] + 3 [shred glyph]) * (1 + CRIT * 1.1 [pred. instincts] * 1.03 [RED])

So, at 7k AP with 50% crit and 5CP, thats nearly 42k damage over 26s.

dedmonwakeen · 03/11/09, 8:55 AM

Originally Posted by ramenchef

What is periodicity? if you mean time between energy ticks, it should probably be set to 0.1 due to rogues/druids regenerating energy at a rate of 10 energy/1 second in 1 energy intervals. I'd actually be interested in seeing if that changes anything.

Changing periodicity will not change the rate of energy regen...... just how smooth/choppy it is.

The reason it defaults to 1.0sec is for performance reasons...... although I haven't experimented in a while.

Starfox · 03/11/09, 2:00 PM

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen

Changing periodicity will not change the rate of energy regen...... just how smooth/choppy it is.

The reason it defaults to 1.0sec is for performance reasons...... although I haven't experimented in a while.

The weird thing i don't quite get.
regen_periodicity=1.0: fights length is about 284sec
regen_periodicity=0.2: fights length is right at 300sec

dedmonwakeen · 03/11/09, 2:51 PM

Originally Posted by Starfox

The weird thing i don't quite get.
regen_periodicity=1.0: fights length is about 284sec
regen_periodicity=0.2: fights length is right at 300sec

Experimenting across a range of values (multiple instances at each value) gave a "reasonably" random spread for fight length...... but the distribution was a bit spiky.....

All iterations are really health-limited despite the max_time setting. The boss health is calculated half-way through the very first iteration. Depending upon how lucky/unlucky the players are during that first half the fight time will be somewhere between 285sec and 300sec. It is never greater than max_time because boss health is calculated by damage done outside of BL and the Execute abilities/talents.

Starfox · 03/11/09, 8:10 PM

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen

Experimenting across a range of values (multiple instances at each value) gave a "reasonably" random spread for fight length...... but the distribution was a bit spiky.....

All iterations are really health-limited despite the max_time setting. The boss health is calculated half-way through the very first iteration. Depending upon how lucky/unlucky the players are during that first half the fight time will be somewhere between 285sec and 300sec. It is never greater than max_time because boss health is calculated by damage done outside of BL and the Execute abilities/talents.

Hm, I think i got my misinterpretation, was using iterations=6666.
As there is no real report on average fightlength, I used the energy_regen, but with higher periodicity it happens more often to cap out on a regen event, and therefor less gets reported. Most probably in both cases the fights were actually of the same length.

Allev · 03/12/09, 12:22 PM

Time now to figure out why SimulationCraft is overvaluing hit/expertise for ferals compared to all the other theorycraft...

dedmonwakeen · 03/12/09, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Allev

Time now to figure out why SimulationCraft is overvaluing hit/expertise for ferals compared to all the other theorycraft...

By default, the scale factor generation for hit/expertise SUBTRACTS stat value to determine the slope of the dps curve.

I went back and forth on this one..... Input welcome.

Allev · 03/12/09, 1:05 PM

That shouldn't be a big deal, hit rating is fairly consistent from having no hit rating to being capped (according to the other theorycraft).

Also-- any chance an option for rake time can be added? I'd like to set up my profile to not shred unless rake has time before it expires (like mangle in the mangle profile).

Starfox · 03/12/09, 1:37 PM

Originally Posted by Allev

Also-- any chance an option for rake time can be added? I'd like to set up my profile to not shred unless rake has time before it expires (like mangle in the mangle profile).

r1785: rake>=Y, rake<=Y
Post your profiles if you can squeeze out more dps

Allev · 03/12/09, 3:58 PM

Is Omen of Clarity getting a double-bonus?

I'm looking into some unexpected Ferocious Bite behavior (limiting the energy it consumes is decreasing DPS), and I may have found the problem with hit rating while doing so.

The relevant code:

// druid_attack_t::cost ====================================================

double druid_attack_t::cost()
{
  druid_t* p = player -> cast_druid();
  double c = attack_t::cost();
  if ( c == 0 ) return 0;
  if ( p -> _buffs.omen_of_clarity ) return 0;
  if ( p -> _buffs.berserk) c *= 0.5;
  return c;
}

// druid_attack_t::consume_resource ========================================

void druid_attack_t::consume_resource()
{
  druid_t* p = player -> cast_druid();
  attack_t::consume_resource();
  if( p -> _buffs.omen_of_clarity )
  {
    // Treat the savings like a energy gain.
    double amount = attack_t::cost();
    if( amount > 0 )
    {
      p -> gains_omen_of_clarity -> add( amount );
      p -> _buffs.omen_of_clarity = 0;
      p -> aura_loss( "Omen of Clarity" );
    }
  }
}

In cost(), it looks like you make the cost of the attack 0. In consume_resource(), it looks like you're adding energy. If you are doing both, then you're doing something wrong! Although I'm not sure if these are two different implementations which are separate for cat and moonkin.

Edit: Crit ticks are still 5% too high.

Starfox · 03/12/09, 4:31 PM

Originally Posted by Allev

Is Omen of Clarity getting a double-bonus?

I'm looking into some unexpected Ferocious Bite behavior (limiting the energy it consumes is decreasing DPS), and I may have found the problem with hit rating while doing so.

The relevant code:

// druid_attack_t::cost ====================================================

double druid_attack_t::cost()
{
  druid_t* p = player -> cast_druid();
  double c = attack_t::cost();
  if ( c == 0 ) return 0;
  if ( p -> _buffs.omen_of_clarity ) return 0;
  if ( p -> _buffs.berserk) c *= 0.5;
  return c;
}

// druid_attack_t::consume_resource ========================================

void druid_attack_t::consume_resource()
{
  druid_t* p = player -> cast_druid();
  attack_t::consume_resource();
  if( p -> _buffs.omen_of_clarity )
  {
    // Treat the savings like a energy gain.
    double amount = attack_t::cost();
    if( amount > 0 )
    {
      p -> gains_omen_of_clarity -> add( amount );
      p -> _buffs.omen_of_clarity = 0;
      p -> aura_loss( "Omen of Clarity" );
    }
  }
}

In cost(), it looks like you make the cost of the attack 0. In consume_resource(), it looks like you're adding energy. If you are doing both, then you're doing something wrong! Although I'm not sure if these are two different implementations which are separate for cat and moonkin.

Edit: Crit ticks are still 5% too high.

OoC let the sim subtract 0 resource from yout current one.

 p -> gains_omen_of_clarity -> add( amount );

Means that you can see in the report under Gains how much energy saved by OoC, this is for statistical purposes only here and does not really add that amount of resource back to that player.

dedmonwakeen · 03/12/09, 5:01 PM

Originally Posted by Allev

Edit: Crit ticks are still 5% too high.

Do the rip/rake crit ticks also suffer from boss "crit depression" like standard melee attacks?

Allev · 03/12/09, 6:24 PM

It hasn't been tested as far as I know, but why wouldn't they? Do caster dots not get reduced by crit depression?

Starfox · 03/12/09, 7:10 PM

Originally Posted by Allev

It hasn't been tested as far as I know, but why wouldn't they? Do caster dots not get reduced by crit depression?

Nope, caster only get their miss chance/partial resists increased.

Allev · 03/12/09, 7:58 PM

So, I think I found a bug.

I've got two profiles:

First one is this:

#!simcraft max_time=300 optimal_raid=1

patch=3.1.0
druid=Druid_T8_00_55_16
level=80
talents=http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=0ZEGMcfrz0eR0huVkbAczb
actions=flask,type=endless_rage/food,type=blackened_dragonfin
actions+=/cat_form
actions+=/auto_attack
actions+=/shred,omen_of_clarity=1
actions+=/tigers_fury,energy<=40
actions+=/berserk,tigers_fury=1
actions+=/savage_roar,cp>=1,savage_roar<=4
actions+=/rip,cp>=5,time_to_die>=10
actions+=/ferocious_bite,cp>=5,rip>=5,savage_roar>=6
actions+=/rake
actions+=/shred,rake>=2
actions+=/shred,cp<=4,energy>=60
actions+=/shred,energy>=80
Melee_T7_Base_Gear.simcraft
gear_expertise_rating=200
# Not fair to use the same stats for all melee since Feral 

Druid needs less expertise.
# Trade expertise for ivalue-equal amount of attack power
enchant_attack_power=+160
enchant_expertise_rating=-80
glyph_rip=1
glyph_savage_roar=1
glyph_shred=1
idol_of_worship=1
main_hand=staff,dps=222.9,speed=2.4,enchant=berserking

Second one is this:

#!simcraft max_time=300 optimal_raid=1

patch=3.1.0
druid=Druid_T8_00_55_16_Modified
level=80
talents=http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=0ZEGMcfrz0eR0huVkbAczb
actions=flask,type=endless_rage/food,type=blackened_dragonfin
actions+=/cat_form
actions+=/auto_attack
actions+=/shred,omen_of_clarity=1
actions+=/tigers_fury,energy<=40
actions+=/berserk,tigers_fury=1
actions+=/savage_roar,cp>=1,savage_roar<=4
actions+=/rip,cp>=5,time_to_die>=10
actions+=/rip,cp>=5,time_to_die>=10
actions+=/ferocious_bite,cp>=5,rip>=5,savage_roar>=6
actions+=/rake
actions+=/shred,rake>=2
actions+=/shred,cp<=4,energy>=60
actions+=/shred,energy>=80
Melee_T7_Base_Gear.simcraft
gear_expertise_rating=200
# Not fair to use the same stats for all melee since Feral Druid 

needs less expertise.
# Trade expertise for ivalue-equal amount of attack power
enchant_attack_power=+160
enchant_expertise_rating=-80
glyph_rip=1
glyph_savage_roar=1
glyph_shred=1
idol_of_worship=1
main_hand=staff,dps=222.9,speed=2.4,enchant=berserking

The only difference is, I repeated the Rip line. The second profile somehow consistently beats out the first, every time I run the simulation.

BTW, the first profile regularly tops 7400 DPS. It's a work in progress still, though.

Starfox · 03/12/09, 9:42 PM

Originally Posted by Allev

So, I think I found a bug.

I've got two profiles:

First one is this:

Second one is this:

The only difference is, I repeated the Rip line. The second profile somehow consistently beats out the first, every time I run the simulation.

BTW, the first profile regularly tops 7400 DPS. It's a work in progress still, though.

Oh, nice find. What this thos is:
It runs like normal (one-rip-profile)
Then it performs the first rip, and this first one gets set to 'ready when rip faded'
But the second line stays active, and gets executed before the first rip is fallen off:

7.12     Druid_T8_00_55_16 performs rip
27.12    Executing event: Action Tick
27.12    rip ticks (10 of 13)
27.12    rip ticks (10 of 13)
29.11    Druid_T8_00_55_16 performs rip <= Here the old rip would have fallen off, if not for glyph of shred
29.12    rip ticks (11 of 13)
31.11    rip ticks (1 of 10)
31.12    rip ticks (12 of 13)
33.11    rip ticks (2 of 10)

There seems to be a problem with extending the duration on dots.

dedmonwakeen · 03/12/09, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by Starfox

There seems to be a problem with extending the duration on dots.

Add following line to end of action_t::refresh_duration() and action_t::extend_duration():

player -> share_duration( duration_group, duration_ready );

melth · 03/13/09, 6:36 AM

Hey Starfox,

thanks for your effort!

What I'm missing is an option to cast Insect Swarm at the end of Lunar Eclipse if there is no time to squeeze in another Starfire. So something like lunar_eclipse_left <= 1.5
Same for Moonfire.
I know that has been asked before but it's kinda important so I wanted to suggest it again.

Starfox · 03/13/09, 7:36 AM

Originally Posted by melth

Hey Starfox,

thanks for your effort!

What I'm missing is an option to cast Insect Swarm at the end of Lunar Eclipse if there is no time to squeeze in another Starfire. So something like lunar_eclipse_left <= 1.5
Same for Moonfire.
I know that has been asked before but it's kinda important so I wanted to suggest it again.

#don't cast while unter eclipse
actions+=/moonfire,skip_on_eclipse=1
actions+=/insect_swarm,skip_on_eclipse=1
#if eclipseduration > SF casttime => starfire
actions+=/starfire,eclipse=benefit
#Here is the trick, if MF/IS are NOT UP, eclipse is up, but your starfire won't hit in time of the buff, cast IS/MF
actions+=/moonfire
actions+=/insect_swarm

Did you mean something like that?
Oh, I think I'll have to add a check for eclipse=benefit, so the cast is not started if eclipse_duration < cast_time.
Will be done in a few minutes. (done)

melth · 03/13/09, 7:49 AM

Originally Posted by Starfox

Oh, I think I'll have to add a check for eclipse=benefit, so the cast is not started if eclipse_duration < cast_time.
Will be done in a few minutes.

That's what I was looking for thanks - although your solution is much simpler than mine