SimulationCraft - for fur and feather wearers - Page 9

Starfox · 12/02/09, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Allev

Combo points don't seem to be working in the new buff system for ferals like the examples in the first post. Instead, I get an error saying the buff isn't recognized.

Oops, yea. The number of cp is buff.combo_points.stack, fixed

Erdluf · 12/03/09, 9:22 AM

I'm adding a note on simc 'lag' mechanics, since Moonkin results are very sensitive to this (and they aren't discussed in the first post). An important default changed this week.

My understanding of this is that simc has three lags it can use. The are (shown with default numbers, in seconds):

queue_lag=0.075
gcd_lag=0.150
channel_lag=0.250

There are also standard deviations used (lag is not a constant in simc), named queue_lag_stddev, etc. These default to 25% of their corresponding _lag values.

channel_lag is used for channeled spells. simc doesn't model any channeled druid spells, so you can ignore it.

queue_lag is used if the previous (just completed) spell had a cast time.
gcd_lag is used if the previous spell was instant.

There is an option, strict_gcd_queue=1. Prior to 30 Nov 2009, it defaulted to zero. When this option is on (the new default), the time between casts is always at least gcd+gcd_lag. When the option is off, chain casting of Wrath takes gcd+queue_lag.

There is another parameter:

queue_gcd_reduction=0.075

If I understand it correctly, your gcd (for casting the current spell) will be reduced by this amount if your previous spell was queued (meaning that your previous cast got to use queue_lag, rather than gcd_lag).

For a sequence like (S represents SF, X represents anything else)

X1 X2 S1 S2 S3 X3 X4 X5

With current defaults the effective lag before casting each spell is

X2 = .15 (gcd_lag)
S1 = .15 (gcd_lag)
S2 = .075 (queue_lag)
S3 = .075 (queue_lag)
X3 = .075 (queue_lag)
X4 = .075 (gcd_lag - queue_gcd_reduction)
X5 = .15 (gcd_lag)

I don't know if simc has any additional penalty for ground-targeted spells (Force of Nature). In my opinion, ground targeting always costs me at least 0.3s, unless the previous spell was channeled.

I personally believe that your effective lag gets worse when the gcd drops to 1s. You can get some effective queueing after an instant-cast (or wrath), as long as the gcd > 1s. When the gcd is 1s (as is frequently the case for Moonkin) your effective lag increases. I'd like to see a parameter that could keep the effective minimum gcd above 1s.

dedmonwakeen · 12/03/09, 8:29 PM

Originally Posted by Erdluf

I personally believe that your effective lag gets worse when the gcd drops to 1s. You can get some effective queueing after an instant-cast (or wrath), as long as the gcd > 1s. When the gcd is 1s (as is frequently the case for Moonkin) your effective lag increases. I'd like to see a parameter that could keep the effective minimum gcd above 1s.

For non-channeled spells, the player becomes ready at

MAX( cast_time + queue_lag, gcd + gcd_lag )

Is gcd_lag not enough to play with?

Erdluf · 12/03/09, 11:20 PM

The problem is, that talented Wrath will always end up using gcd+gcd_lag, because cast_time is always <= gcd.

Skjaven's numbers indicated that lag was higher with a gcd of 1000ms, than when he had a gcd of 1183 ms.

On the other hand, his two lag numbers were 80ms and 108ms. If I plugged a number like 94ms into simc, I'd never be more than 14ms off, and frankly, any guess I make for average latency is likely to be off by a lot more than 14ms.

• Hamlet · 12/03/09, 11:42 PM

That difference may not be statistically significant anyway.

Allev · 12/13/09, 1:07 PM

I'm having some trouble with the new operators. I'm trying to implement a line something like this:

actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.savage_roar.remains-dot.rip.remains<=4

This is so that we can deal with SR and Rip collisions more elegantly.

Starfox · 12/13/09, 2:30 PM

Originally Posted by Allev

I'm having some trouble with the new operators. I'm trying to implement a line something like this:

actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.savage_roar.remains-dot.rip.remains<=4

This is so that we can deal with SR and Rip collisions more elegantly.

You should just write down at what exact conditions you want to cast SR and work from there.
You example:
Rip just applied, 16s left
Shred, 16-1+2=17s left
So you'd cast SR if it has below 21s left on the buff (20s after the shred gcd)

I can just help you in general with expressions, if you tell me exactly what you want to achieve. As I'm moonkin myself, I always copy feral actionslist where someone managed to squeeze a bit more dps.

Allev · 12/13/09, 2:37 PM

My problem is syntactical, not theoretical. The above line fails when I try to run the simulation.

The full line might look something like:

actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.savage_roar.remains-dot.rip.remains<=4&(buff.savage_roar.remains<buff.combo_points.stack*5-5)

As it is, since the first line doesn't work, I can't build a full expression-- am I using elements that can't subtract from each other, or am I getting something else syntactically wrong? Does the "-" operator work?

Starfox · 12/14/09, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Allev

My problem is syntactical, not theoretical. The above line fails when I try to run the simulation.

The full line might look something like:

actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.savage_roar.remains-dot.rip.remains<=4&(buff.savage_roar.remains<buff.combo_points.stack*5-5)

As it is, since the first line doesn't work, I can't build a full expression-- am I using elements that can't subtract from each other, or am I getting something else syntactically wrong? Does the "-" operator work?

All normal arithemitc functions should work, I'll pass it on to nate to have a look at it, because for me this expression should just work.

dedmonwakeen · 12/14/09, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Starfox

All normal arithemitc functions should work, I'll pass it on to nate to have a look at it, because for me this expression should just work.

This has been fixed in r4117.

I was not properly distinguishing between unary/binary operators +/- when used with "functions" such as buff.* etc.

Simple numeric testing, FTL. And of course, I -just- put out a new release. Argh.

Allev · 12/14/09, 11:09 AM

I'll drop it into an issue on the SC page, then-- I just assumed I was doing something wrong!

Edit: Nevermind, I think a fix just got put in.

Allev · 12/18/09, 12:08 PM

Is there a way to express "time_to_die" with the new if= expression system? I tried running

actions+=/rake,if=time_to_die>=9

and got "Unable to decode expression function 'time_to_die'" errors. I'd like to see the feral profiles move over to the new expressions, as I hope they'll lead to powerful specifications.

dedmonwakeen · 12/18/09, 3:46 PM

Originally Posted by Allev

Is there a way to express "time_to_die" with the new if= expression system? I tried running

actions+=/rake,if=time_to_die>=9

and got "Unable to decode expression function 'time_to_die'" errors. .

Not at the moment..... To be honest I merely got -just- enough done to test it on a few specs.

A good place to start is to take all the conditionals supported at the action_t::parse_options() level.

After that....... Whatever you guys need. It is very easy (and concise) to add new expression functions.

Mawic · 12/22/09, 2:57 PM

There seems to be something weird going on with the Boomkin Lunar Eclipse buff. I am running simc-330-5-win32.

Occasionally my output will show a Wrath/Starfire balance that is way off. Rather than Wrath/Starfire each contributing equally around 40% of my overall damage, Wrath will be at 20% and Starfire at 60%. When this happens, if I look at the Dynamic Buffs table I'll usually see Lunar Eclipse with an impossibly high uptime around 70-75%. Here is a simc file which displays this behavior:

#!./simc 

druid=Druid_WowHead
origin="http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=19953687"
level=80
race=tauren
professions=tailoring=450/jewelcrafting=450
talents=http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=11&tal=5012203125331303213305301231000000000000000000000000000000205003012
glyphs=insect_swarm/starfire/moonfire/thorns/unburdened_rebirth/the_wild
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm
actions+=/food,type=fish_feast
actions+=/mark_of_the_wild
actions+=/moonkin_form
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/faerie_fire
actions+=/speed_potion
actions+=/innervate,trigger=-2000
actions+=/treants
actions+=/starfall,if=!eclipse
actions+=/starfire,if=buff.t8_4pc_caster.up
actions+=/moonfire,if=!ticking
actions+=/insect_swarm,if=!ticking
actions+=/wrath,if=trigger_lunar
actions+=/starfire,if=buff.lunar_eclipse.react&(buff.lunar_eclipse.remains>cast_time)
actions+=/wrath,if=buff.solar_eclipse.react&(buff.solar_eclipse.remains>cast_time)
actions+=/starfire
head=sanctified_lasherweave_cover,stats=540armor_100crit_92haste_162sp_123sta_123int,gems=chaotic_skyflare_23sp_9sp,enchant=30sp_20crit
neck=blood_queens_crimson_choker,stats=57crit_53haste_97sp_69sta_69int,gems=23sp
shoulders=sanctified_lasherweave_mantle,stats=499armor_80crit_72haste_132sp_92sta_92int,gems=23sp_5sp,enchant=24sp_15crit
chest=sanctified_lasherweave_vestment,stats=665armor_108crit_92haste_171sp_123sta_123int,gems=23sp_10crit_12sp_7sp,enchant=10str_10agi_10sta_10int_10spi
waist=belt_of_petrified_ivy,stats=374armor_80crit_64haste_122sp_92sta_92int,gems=10crit_12sp_39sp_39sp_7sp
legs=sanctified_lasherweave_trousers,stats=582armor_92hit_108crit_171sp_123sta_123int,gems=23sp_10crit_12sp_7sp,enchant=50sp_20spi
feet=plague_scientists_boots,stats=243armor_72crit_80haste_132sp_92sta_92int,gems=12sp_10spi_5sp,enchant=15sta
wrists=the_ladys_brittle_bracers,stats=155armor_45hit_65crit_97sp_69sta_69int,gems=23sp,enchant=30sp
hands=sanctified_lasherweave_gloves,stats=416armor_72hit_80crit_132sp_92sta_92int,gems=23sp_5sp,enchant=28sp
finger1=ring_of_rapid_ascent,stats=60crit_52haste_97sp_69sta_69int,gems=12sp_10spi_5sp
finger2=ashen_band_of_endless_destruction,stats=51hit_64haste_101sp_73sta_73int,gems=23sp,equip=onspellhit_285sp_10%_10dur_45cd
trinket1=reign_of_the_dead,stats=150sp,equip=onspelldirectcrit_1882fire_3stack_2.0cd
trinket2=reign_of_the_dead,stats=168sp,equip=onspelldirectcrit_2117fire_3stack_2.0cd
back=aethas_intensity,stats=182armor_65crit_57haste_105sp_74sta_74int,gems=39sp_5sp,enchant=lightweave_embroidery
main_hand=frozen_bonespike,stats=59crit_741sp_67sta_67int_59spi,enchant=63sp,weapon=dagger_1.80speed_112.56min_358.56max
off_hand=shadow_silk_spindle,stats=60crit_60haste_106sp_69sta_69int
ranged=idol_of_the_lunar_eclipse
# Gear Summary
# gear_strength=10
# gear_agility=10
# gear_stamina=1252
# gear_intellect=1237
# gear_spirit=110
# gear_spell_power=3325
# gear_hit_rating=260
# gear_crit_rating=1080
# gear_haste_rating=686
# gear_armor=3656
# meta_gem=chaotic_skyflare
# tier10_2pc_caster=1
# tier10_4pc_caster=1
# back=aethas_intensity,enchant=lightweave_embroidery
# main_hand=frozen_bonespike,weapon=dagger_1.80speed_112.56min_358.56max

Is it possible there's an unintended interaction going on between the Lunar Eclipse buff from the Eclipse talent and the Lunar Eclipse buff from the new T10 Idol of the Lunar Eclipse? The two buffs currently have the same name.

I've found two possible workarounds. I can replace the T10 idol with the old T9 Idol of Lunar Fury, or I can switch my actions list from Wrath first to Starfire first by replacing the last four actions on lines 23-26 with the following:

actions+=/starfire,if=trigger_solar
actions+=/wrath,if=buff.solar_eclipse.react&(buff.solar_eclipse.remains>cast_time)
actions+=/starfire,if=buff.lunar_eclipse.react&(buff.lunar_eclipse.remains>cast_time)
actions+=/wrath

Either workaround appears at first glance to fix the issue. The Wrath/Starfire numbers fall back into expected balance, so I'm not sure this is a huge issue or even an issue at all. But if there is an unintended mixing of the two buffs I'm not sure if I should trust either set of numbers regardless of whether Wrath/Starfire appear back in balance.

dedmonwakeen · 12/22/09, 3:51 PM

Originally Posted by Mawic

Is it possible there's an unintended interaction going on between the Lunar Eclipse buff from the Eclipse talent and the Lunar Eclipse buff from the new T10 Idol of the Lunar Eclipse? The two buffs currently have the same name.

Thank you! This has been driving me nuts. The name clash is definitely the source of the problem.

EDIT: SVN fix coming immediately. Release shortly thereafter.

EDIT: v6 available for download

Starfox · 12/23/09, 1:32 PM

Long time since I did a scale factor run with the druid profiles. :S
Made the first post catch up on to the latest revision in trunk

Furion · 12/30/09, 10:34 PM

actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.combo_points.stack>=3&dot.rip.remains-buff.savage_roar.remains<=5&buff.savage_roar.remains<=6

Simcraft seems to ignore this line from me and I'm not sure what I did wrong. I mainly want to check how many seconds are between Rip and SR expiring and if they are expiring too close I want to refresh SR.

Edit: Thanks, the parenthesis fixed it. Stupid me

dedmonwakeen · 12/31/09, 9:20 AM

Originally Posted by Furion

actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.combo_points.stack>=3&dot.rip.remains-buff.savage_roar.remains<=5&buff.savage_roar.remains<=6

Simcraft seems to ignore this line from me and I'm not sure what I did wrong. I mainly want to check how many seconds are between Rip and SR expiring and if they are expiring too close I want to refresh SR.

Add parens to make absolutely sure you are getting the expression you need.

In the meantime I'll update debug=1 to give more information when evaluating the expressions.

Furion · 12/31/09, 1:31 PM

Thanks for your help and thanks for your work on sc. I have one last question however: is there an expression like "remains" that doesn't check for the ACTUAL time of the dot remaining on the target and instead checks for the time remaining of a forced dot duration?
What I really want is a way to compare the SR timer to the 22 seconds of a fully shred extended rip and not to the actual rip which might not be fully shred extended, yet (especially since the current sc profile will only specifically shred to extend rip near the end of its duration).

When the shred glyph adds rip charges then the comparison between SR and Rip may be off, as the rip duration is changing 3 times on each rip. I think that maybe this could help improve the best dps cat profile.

dedmonwakeen · 12/31/09, 2:25 PM

Originally Posted by Furion

Thanks for your help and thanks for your work on sc. I have one last question however: is there an expression like "remains" that doesn't check for the ACTUAL time of the dot remaining on the target and instead checks for the time remaining of a forced dot duration?
What I really want is a way to compare the SR timer to the 22 seconds of a fully shred extended rip and not to the actual rip which might not be fully shred extended, yet (especially since the current sc profile will only specifically shred to extend rip near the end of its duration).

When the shred glyph adds rip charges then the comparison between SR and Rip may be off, as the rip duration is changing 3 times on each rip. I think that maybe this could help improve the best dps cat profile.

I do not believe we have the tools you need in the v6 release.

Would an expr function that returned the number of ticks that have occurred? (as opposed to the number of ticks remaining)

Furion · 12/31/09, 8:12 PM

that should work just as well

Mawic · 01/01/10, 4:53 PM

It appears Bliz has either a typo or a convention change in the name of the Boomkin T10 chest piece.

T8 is Nightsong Vestments
T9 is Malfurion/Runetotem's Vestments
T10 is Lasherweave Vestment - no 's' on Vestments

This is affecting the set bonus detection in Simcraft. It's looking for 'vestments' and the mismatch can result in T10 set bonuses getting missed.

Starfox · 01/01/10, 5:14 PM

Thanks, we all love the way blizzard defines consistency :P
Fix is in trunk

ramenchef · 01/01/10, 9:28 PM

An update on at least the melee DPS Exalted reputation ring from the Ashen Verdict. The proc has a 60 second ICD versus the 45 that SC has coded in currently. The proc rate is also not 10% but 1 PPM. I know all the rings have a 60 second ICD, but not sure about the proc rate on the others, probably similar though.

Allev · 01/04/10, 4:08 PM

So I'm trying to get [Shard of the Crystal Heart] working-- it doesn't auto-use the item, and the syntax over in Player Options doesn't seem to help either. What am I missing?