FeralbyNight (Cat & Bear simulation tool) - Page 11

Cryect · 04/15/09, 2:51 AM

Faerie Fire Faerie Fire - Spell - World of Warcraft

Checking out other part

nightcrowler · 04/15/09, 5:21 AM

X Cryect: WoW head still has the old tooltip for Faerie Fire.

While waiting for servers to test the addon, I'm implementing trinkets in my simulator. I had a therycraft problem and I don't know if anyone can help me (or test it, if you are on US):

Does chance on crit trinket (like Mirror of Truth) procs on rip/lacerate crits?

Mijae · 04/15/09, 11:23 AM

I can confirm I just had a [Mirror of Truth] proc from a Lacerate crit on a training dummy.

Cuandoman · 04/15/09, 11:41 AM

I know your OP has some verbage to this point, but I think a reiteration of what the Agi vs ArPen tipping point is may be in order given that the patch is now live. I know it's dependant on the idol, but what about crit, hit, expertice or AP?

Additionally, I'm rather excited to give your addon a try. Do you have any screenshots available?

syntax53 · 04/15/09, 12:56 PM

So I've been reading this thread and a few others all day trying to work out what I should be aiming for. Currently I've been collecting gear as a hybrid tank. Normally I just dps but occasionally (and primarily in 10 mans) I tank. So unfortunately I have to either collect two pieces of the same gear for gems/enchants or compromise.

I'm trying to figure out my best route. Currently I don't have the +hit from my gear in order to be able to replace those gems with armor pen. I need androits (dropped once) and surge needle (never dropped). So is my best option to go with agility gems where I can and continue to use the rip idol? I'm at 138 armor pen at the moment. I assume getting to the hit AND expertise cap are more important than agility/armor pen?

Maeltne · 04/15/09, 1:08 PM

I found some problems with your wowhead criteria. 'Melee Hit' no longer properly exists on items, it is all now merely 'Hit' rating. Similarly for haste, crit, and ap. Properly assigning these criteria significantly changes the wowhead order:

Bear Link

Your Cat wowhead parse is fine.

Viia · 04/15/09, 1:15 PM

Originally Posted by syntax53

So I've been reading this thread and a few others all day trying to work out what I should be aiming for. Currently I've been collecting gear as a hybrid tank. Normally I just dps but occasionally (and primarily in 10 mans) I tank. So unfortunately I have to either collect two pieces of the same gear for gems/enchants or compromise.

I'm trying to figure out my best route. Currently I don't have the +hit from my gear in order to be able to replace those gems with armor pen. I need androits (dropped once) and surge needle (never dropped). So is my best option to go with agility gems where I can and continue to use the rip idol? I'm at 138 armor pen at the moment. I assume getting to the hit AND expertise cap are more important than agility/armor pen?

I think gemming agi is the way to go along with +hit (which you need in cat anyway.)

You can tank well enough for 10 mans in cat gear, assuming you have the 'off' pieces to swap in (rings, trinkets, etc.)

Cryect · 04/15/09, 1:35 PM

Originally Posted by syntax53

I assume getting to the hit AND expertise cap are more important than agility/armor pen?

For DPS no, for TPS yes.

syntax53 · 04/15/09, 1:37 PM

Originally Posted by Cryect

For DPS no, for TPS yes.

From the dps perspective what's the trade-off? I assume hit cap still takes priority no matter what, right? Is there a certain expterise you want to get to before agility (or ArP or whatever) becomes better than it?

a civilian · 04/15/09, 1:40 PM

Hit cap does not take priority. The weights given in the initial post indicate that armor penetration and agility are superior to hit and expertise.

syntax53 · 04/15/09, 1:51 PM

Originally Posted by a civilian

Hit cap does not take priority. The weights given in the initial post indicate that armor penetration and agility are superior to hit and expertise.

Don't you have to take your own gear into consideration though? The gear he used in his numbers naturally get him to the hit cap. All of the calculators and sims typically assume you are at the hit cap, am I wrong?. If I regem all of my gear I can get up to 282 armor pen but then I'll only have 131 hit rating (4%). So I should regem all my gear with ArP, put on my shred idol, and melt face?

Hezkezl · 04/15/09, 2:07 PM

@nightcrowler: Yeah, I'm using it post-patch. I'm on the live realms right now in Thunder Bluff trying to get it to work via attacking the test dummy, but no luck. The only thing that shows up is the Clearcasting graphic, as well as my current energy, and combo points. The cooldown thing looks like it works, there's some numbers appearing on rip and rake, but tiger's fury and savage roar deon't show up. I've put a screenshot of the interface I use, along with the addon in a temporary place to show off what's not working, on my website. Here's the url: Clicky

I have tried disabling EVERYTHING except FBN, and it won't work. I get an error saying it needs the ace-2 framework. I turnon ace3, and no dice, same error. I turn on Ace2, and I get the error mentioned previously. So.. I'm thinking I really screwed something up

Garanthir · 04/15/09, 2:18 PM

Originally Posted by syntax53

Don't you have to take your own gear into consideration though? The gear he used in his numbers naturally get him to the hit cap. All of the calculators and sims typically assume you are at the hit cap, am I wrong?. If I regem all of my gear I can get up to 282 armor pen but then I'll only have 131 hit rating (4%). So I should regem all my gear with ArP, put on my shred idol, and melt face?

No, nothing is assuming that you are hit capped. It's all about stat weights, you take a list of stats and prioritize them. There's nothing that says "get to x number", folks really need to read these threads and understand that. Yes for sure your gear set matters, but again it matters in weighting the stats you choose.

Personally since my tanking set shares some items from my DPS set(and my raid role is to tank 1st DPS 2nd) I am going to gem and enchant mainly for Agility and pick up Armor Pen from gear. I will try to get hit where I can (again from gear), but I will not gem or enchant for it.

Viia · 04/15/09, 2:27 PM

Originally Posted by Garanthir

No, nothing is assuming that you are hit capped. It's all about stat weights, you take a list of stats and prioritize them. There's nothing that says "get to x number", folks really need to read these threads and understand that. Yes for sure your gear set matters, but again it matters in weighting the stats you choose.

Personally since my tanking set shares some items from my DPS set(and my raid role is to tank 1st DPS 2nd) I am going to gem and enchant mainly for Agility and pick up Armor Pen from gear. I will try to get hit where I can (again from gear), but I will not gem or enchant for it.

Stat weights are great for prioritizing gear, but hit rating does change in value based on whether or not you are hit capped, so I'm not quite sure what you mean... I don't see two weights for hit rating, one based on being at <8% and one at >8%? Are we assuming this is the weight for hit rating based on being under the hit cap? Why aren't there two weights for expertise? These stat weights are based on character with the "current" stats he has. Not being hit capped would change the value of these weights, unless I'm stupid at math?

Why would he have:

All socketed with +16 ArPen + one 8 exp/12 stam + two 8 hit / 8 agi.

(The two 8 hit/8 agi gems) in the second set of gear?

Also, I'm not quite sure what you're saying regarding "nothing says get to x number" ... while you are right, it doesn't say that explicitly, there are breakpoints for particular stats (hit cap, soft expertise cap) that devalue them or change what gear is preferable (rip v shred idol and armor pen).

Could you please clarify?

Edit: Upon further reading this seems a lot more like trying to find the optimal time to do rotations with certain gear/stats rather than identifying "which stat is best" because if you're wearing BiS everything with the best gems, the stat weights are pretty useless... because you're already BiS everything, with all of the right gems.

Maeltne · 04/15/09, 2:33 PM

1) What is the !maul that I see, can Maul now be toggled?

Here are my macros, made with the following assumptions:
1) Feral Faerie Fire no longer has cannot cast errors
2) You have Imp Mangle

Max Single Target TPS

/cast [mod] Growl
/castsequence reset=4.5 Mangle (Bear)(), Lacerate(),Swipe (Bear)(),Mangle (Bear)(),Faerie Fire (Feral)(),Lacerate(),Mangle (Bear)(),Swipe (Bear)(),Faerie Fire (Feral)()

Max AoE TPS

/cast [mod] Challenging Roar
/castsequence reset=4.5 Mangle (Bear)(), Swipe (Bear)(),Swipe (Bear)()

What I do is I assign the first a keybind, (say 1), then the second to another keybind 2 keys over (say 3), then keybind Maul to the key between (2 in this case). Infinite rage = spam 2 keys, rage light = spam 1 key.

Other macros of note:

Berserk macro (if you have the glyph add 4 more mangles)

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=30 Berserk,Mangle (Bear)(),Mangle (Bear)(),Mangle (Bear)(),Mangle (Bear)(),Mangle (Bear)(),Mangle (Bear)(),Mangle (Bear)(),Mangle (Bear)(),Mangle (Bear)()

Bearstand

/cast Barkskin
/use Fel Healthstone
/use [mod] 13
/use [mod] 14
/use [mod] Runic Healing Potion
/cast [mod] Survival Instincts
/cast [mod] Frenzied Regeneration()

Minor emergency push it, major emergency push it while holding any mod.