We had him to 52% after first heart so I guess its possible that rip might have been left, however i also just use rip at the beginning of the heart and nuke through the rest with berzerk and shred spam, right before it leaves I FB so that i dont have wasted rip ticks. Either way, something is buggy cause this is the second boss over the course of 2 days where i havent been able to rip for some strange reason. Even if rip was active, i should be able to overwrite it. ( Yes i know not to). Its not affecting my overall damage too much since its only been on Heart and Razorscale during phase 1. Ill keep my eye out tonight no ignis, kalogarn and auriaya.
I have tried to get feralbynight to work without success. When logged in I instantly get a message that say "Interface....\Feralbynight.lua:1044 attempt to perform arithmetic on global 'shred_energy' (a nil value)
I have tried to get feralbynight to work without success. When logged in I instantly get a message that say "Interface....\Feralbynight.lua:1044 attempt to perform arithmetic on global 'shred_energy' (a nil value)
What to do?
Wait for level 80. Simply put, it expects you to have Shred (Rank 9), which you do not have.
I'm only commenting on this b/c of the immense popularity of Tossk's website. It still lists ArPen noticeably inferior to agility as a stat, which considerably affects the gear/armor ranking. Is his algorithm just wrong?
- you need to try to keep your Rip up during the break, even if that means refreshing it early.
- you need to explicitly NOT FB before a break if your other timers will run out during the break. You prevent the start-of-fight dip in DPS that way. Specifically, 5.7% SR downtime (non-break) and 20% Rip downtime should be improved upon.
- you need to purposely drain all your energy before a break, so you get the full benefit of regen.
This!
You should also make sure that rake is reapplied the second you leave. This can be tricky, but usually, having so many predictable events forcing you to move, there is usually still a 3 to 5 second time frame in case you don't stand right at the edge of the hitbox and run straight away. This also helps to drain you energy. Oh and don't forget the Moonfire/Wrath .
I still can't think of a way to generalize movement for simulation purposes. However, with your approach, we can find something like a 'movement cap'. Movement just changes the percentages of our abilities and as naive as I am, I guess it should raise bleed dmg and lower direct dmg, since dots are dealing dmg while you are not able to strike your enemy. Obviously, there is a bleed cap around the maximun rip duration (without the shred glyph). So we would need to find out at what time Agility gets better than ArP (if ever). However, this might include changing the algorithm quite a bit depending on the time you stay away. Additionally, having both bleeds up maximizes the chance you get back with an OOC proc (2t8). The reapplication of rake should ensure you leave with at least 1cp up. This is important. In case SR runs out you can use that 1+X cp(s) to get it up again when you start running towards the mob again to further optimize energy regeneration, because you can get back to 100% before being in range again. This way you get back with SR and OOC up.
Is your algorithm based upon 2t8?
Well, these are just some quick thoughts in the morning, but we might actually be able to investigate this further.
I'm only commenting on this b/c of the immense popularity of Tossk's website. It still lists ArPen noticeably inferior to agility as a stat, which considerably affects the gear/armor ranking. Is his algorithm just wrong?
No, it is not wrong, but the value of ArPen is changing a lot based on the current amount of ArPen. With my values I get ArPen to be better than Agi when I reach about 530 ArPen.
I don't know what amount of ArPen is included in Nightcrowlers Set, but I will run it in Chardev to see what it is about. I need to guess the socketing, but probably ArPen...
@Allev and Monfalaris:
Well actually it's not obvious what is the best route before a movement phase, introducing movement was easy, making algoritm based on it, require some extra work that I will surerly do, but it takes free time to dedicate to it.
What I usually do:
Using my suggestion frame/simulator algoritm you have the following things:
chocing between rip/FB/SR:
If the suggester tells you to FB, it's always better to FB also if you will move, because FB is considered as an energy dump so if FB pop up on suggestion frame it means that if you reapply rip you will lose dps also considering a full rip duration.
If the suggester doesn't show FB and you have rip ticking you should try to reapply it "at last second" if SR timer is enough or simply reapply -> generate CPs and save them to pop up SR when you came back. In the same way if it show SR, you usually look at SR timer vs. moving time. If SR will last enough I'll simply FB or RIP (if it's down).
Also in the last seconds before moving you obviosly don't want to micromanage energy.
I'll try out different routes and put them into a simulator, so we will see the results.
@Carlos:
With my simulations you only need about 250 Arpen to make arpen better than agility.
@Nightcrowler - the addon has been working great for the most part...
I did notice something odd last night on Razorscale last night. For some reason after the first ground phase the addon wouldn't suggest shred anymore. It always suggested mangle despite me being behind Razorscale during the next ground phase and mangle was already up. It wasn't a big deal, im not a braindead idiot, i shredded anyways. I made sure that mangle bot was not checked (No arms warrior, I was only feral druid), I just found it odd, and maybe worthy of a bug report. If you need any more information ill try to provide it when i can.
Also, i may be dropping a point out of feral agression, to pick up another talent. Do i need to edit anything? I saw your code appears to be looking at that automatically now (via GetTalentInfo(2,2)) instead of having to manually setting it. Is that correct?
@mekell:
first of all, thanks for your bug report, actually I don't know what is the reason for that bug, it happened also to me, I've done Razor yesterday so I can't check it again for a week, the code seems fine.
The only things I can think about is a "Blizzard side bug", basically to check for shreding attack, instead of using talent info, I've used a function to get the energy cost of the different abilities, if shred.energy>42 the addon switch to mangle usage. It could be that Razor has a bug (or undiscovered mechanincs) that make shred cost more than 42 energy in the last phase. I'll try to put energy cost on my chat frame and register those event the next week. In in the meantime there is any feral druids who know something about lua code and want to test it, he/she will be welcome.
As for feral aggression at the moment it auto-test and choce the cycle based on your talent spec. There are still some talents (and I'll not change it at the moment) that are considered mandatory.
Mandatory talents are:
omen of clarity
primal fury
primal precision (only for cats and if not hit/expertise capped)
King of the Jungle (only for cats)
mangle
rend and tear
berserk
Have you considered any of the S6 arena gear for BiS? I leveled a team to 2k last night, and will be going for 2200 tonight probably... and will have the staff in 4 weeks.
I'm curious whether you think it's better than the BiS gear you have listed.
First off, terrific addon. I have a couple of questions regarding gear including Idols.
Shred idol is better than RIP idol. Shred idol scales better with ArPen..
It's important to notice that all stats scales about lineary in relative value. All but Armor Pen, the more you have, the better it is.
There are 2 boundary lines about ArPen:
At about 350 ArPen with RIP idol and 200 ArPen with Shred idol, ArPen becames a better stats than agility.
For a similar reason at about 230 ArPen Shred idol becames better than RIP idol.
Does the above imply that at some magic number of Armor Pen, the RIP Idol surpasses the Shred Idol in terms of effectiveness?
You list BiS Shoulders from page 1 in this thread as Valorous Dreamwalker Shoulderpads, yet the link provided for gear ranking (also from page 1 of this thread), lists Concealment Shoulderpads with a higher score? The Concealment Shoulderpads have an equip bonus of 45 Armor Pen, while the Valorous Dreamwalker Shoulderpads' equip bonus Armor Pen is 30, but with a +16 Armor Pen gem, making it's Armor Pen higher, albeit by a single point.
Next, the Frosted Adroit Handguards are listed as the BiS gloves (from page 1 in this thread). I have both these gloves as well as Valorous Dreamwalker Handgrips with a +16 Armor Pen gem. From experience my DPS is always higher while wearing the Valorous Dreamwalker Handgrips. Any idea why that is?
Our guild downed Kologarn the other day, hurray! I'm not sure if you're familiar with the fight, but Shred isn't an option at any time in that encounter as you're never really considered behind the Arm or Torso. Would a cycle that ignores prompting for Shred a possibility for FBN?
The last item I have I suspect is more of a bug on Blizzard's part. I'm wondering exactly how effective the 2 piece T7 set bonus is. With no T7 pieces equipped, cursor over Rip in the spellbook. My results for that are as follows.
No Set Pieces - 3908 damage over 16 seconds or 3908 / 16 = 244.25 dps
2 T7 Set Pieces - 3881 damage over 20 seconds or 3881 / 20 = 194.05 dps.
That can't be correct, can it?
Anyway, great addon and I look forward to some of the promised improvements! Keep up the good work.
You list BiS Shoulders from page 1 in this thread as Valorous Dreamwalker Shoulderpads, yet the link provided for gear ranking (also from page 1 of this thread), lists Concealment Shoulderpads with a higher score? The Concealment Shoulderpads have an equip bonus of 45 Armor Pen, while the Valorous Dreamwalker Shoulderpads' equip bonus Armor Pen is 30, but with a +16 Armor Pen gem, making it's Armor Pen higher, albeit by a single point.
Links given don't properly evaluate set bonuses. 2T7 adds 2 ticks to rip, pure DPS win. The best pre-Ulduar set has 2T7 in the slots where you lose the least. There are 226-level chest, legs, and gloves, and only 213-level alternatives to tier gear for head and shoulders. So, 2T7 with head and shoulders is a gimme pre-Ulduar.
Once you have access to 2T8, this will be your best use of whichever slots you get them in first, but the jury's still out on 4T8 versus 2T7 versus BiS offset gear, partly because we don't have a complete list of the available offset gear.
Links given don't properly evaluate set bonuses. 2T7 adds 2 ticks to rip, pure DPS win.
That was the last question posed in my post. Does the set bonus simply added 4 seconds to Rip without adding an additional damage component. The tooltip on either the set piece(s) or when you place the cursor over Rip (either on the spellbar or in the spellbook) doesn't seem to indicate any additional damage being done over those extra 4 seconds over and above what the ability delves for in 16 seconds.
If the tooltip in either place read +4 seconds with an additional 25% in damage, then I would agree with you, pure DPS win. If however the set bonus takes the set amount of damage advertised and spreads it out over 20 seconds instead of 16 seconds, that would actually be a DPS loss, hence my original question.
Note - boss armor is actually 10643. Though, it's a very small difference.
Edit: It's really going to be interesting to see how [Grim Toll] and [Mjolnir Runestone] stack and/or share a cooldown. Hopefully Night can get procs implemented as simulations rather than averages to see how these behaviors would interact. If they do not share a cooldown we'll be going over the cap sometimes, but would it be worth it for when they don't? ...
Edit2: It appears they do stack according to WotLK Rogue Gear Discussion. This makes me think it might actually end up being better to use these 2 trinkets and gem agility instead (to avoid going over cap). I really wish we knew if we've seen all the gear to come.
Interesting results found in Official 3.1 changes and discussion indicating that it is possible to reduce target armor below zero and continue increasing damage. This should make it worth stacking both trinkets as well as ArP gems.
I got to test out your addon this week and I have to say that I like it.
My only suggestion is that it should read your target's % remaining health better than it does. Ran Nax25 with a pug (since guild is focusing on Uld) and at 1% on Kelthuzad with 5 combo points up and 4 seconds remaining on savage roar (and probably on the boss's life) it was telling me to refresh savage roar.
- Tauren Druid (Realm first Naxx/Malygos)
- Gnome Mage (Realm first Sarth +3d)
- Nelf Druid (new main - progressing through Ulduar)
@Mijae: very interesting, it means that I should remove 0 armor check from my addon and simulator, thanks for the info.
@mana: yes, I'll do that. At the moment I don't read the boss health at all, next step is to read health for a better kill rotation and also I'd like to see casting to add interrupt suggestion.
@Moosi: the BiS list is not updated, as said, I'll wait for more ulduar gear. Actually with the gear that was discovered in PTR 4T8> all. The gear list doesn't take into accout stats cap, special effects or set bonuses. As for using mangle, just go to /fbn -> cycle options -> uncheck "use shred if efficient".
@Mijae: very interesting, it means that I should remove 0 armor check from my addon and simulator, thanks for the info.
@mana: yes, I'll do that. At the moment I don't read the boss health at all, next step is to read health for a better kill rotation and also I'd like to see casting to add interrupt suggestion.
@Moosi: the BiS list is not updated, as said, I'll wait for more ulduar gear. Actually with the gear that was discovered in PTR 4T8> all. The gear list doesn't take into accout stats cap, special effects or set bonuses. As for using mangle, just go to /fbn -> cycle options -> uncheck "use shred if efficient".
I unchecked that tonight for Kologarn and it occasionally wanted me to shred still, I guess its a bug, but none the less great work on the addon.
I've got 361 ArPen from Gear and Food (including Grim Toll, RAWR averages this trinket to approximately 124 ArPen), exactly 263 Hit and 40 expertise Rating.
RAWR shows, that the Idol of Worship is double as good as the Shred Idol. How come?
Aditionally, my relative Stat Value tables is looking as follows:
I unchecked that tonight for Kologarn and it occasionally wanted me to shred still, I guess its a bug, but none the less great work on the addon.
No it's simply OOC proc. I can add a check for boss name on that fight, I'll try it.
An important question.
I'm trying to add cycle specific issue for Ulduar bosses. I'm not that far on the progress (I've done till Kologarn). Is there any specific fight where you want to use specific abilities or different cycles?
Rawr assumes 100% rip uptime and doesnt use FB in its cycle.
With their new version (I'm not sure if it's the same for previous versions, as I just noticed it today) they do have an 'optimal rotation' readout on their screen for cats. For me, it shows Rake+Shred+Rip+Bite+Roar4. Hovering over it, it tells me to keep a 4-point SR up, Keep Rake up, Keep 5cp Rip up, use FB to use up extra CPs, and use Shred to get Cps. I can only hope that with that kind of 'logic', that they include the use of FB in their item values, but I'm not sure.
In any case, the addon is working fairly well with me. Some kind of explanation as to what all of the checkboxes mean could be helpful. Sorry if it's in this thread, I'll re-read it later today, taking a quick break at work right now to post this. The main one I had to do a double take at, was the 'Use Shred if Optimal' one. Aren't we always supposed to use shred, if rake/mangle/SR is up? Or is that what this option means?
Rawr 2.2.1.0 was released today. While "- Updated to the new ArPen model for 3.1" is in the patch notes, it still isn't valuing ArP anywhere near Agility. It's showing me as having 355 ArP (with grim toll avg) and with only sunder armor and faerie fire checked off on buffs it's weighting agility at 0.94 and ArP at 0.76 (below crit and strength). Fully raid buffed agility is at 1.36 and ArP is 1.20 (only below strength at 1.22).
04/22/09, 6:37 PM
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