Sorry for going slightly offtopic. I'm looking at the bear calculations since I'm writing a bear simulator, and my values are (for the moment) quite off since I'm still making sure I use the righr calculations.
Still, there's something I don't undestand in your TPS coefficients. You have 3.07 for strength and 0.65 for AP. That would mean a 4.72 coefficient between Str and AP, and I really can't see how this is possible. The "normal" coefficient is 2, and I can't see which buff can more than double it. For str->AP conversion buffs I see HotW, BoK, improved MotW and not much else. I don't see how they can a 2 into a 4.72....
Thanks for all the hard work Night. When can we expect an updated .zip file, or an explanation how to use the .cpp file. I looked through here, and perhaps I missed it, but I do not know how to use the .cpp file.
Big thanks for this add-on it has helped me no end with maximising my rotation, one thing I would like to see added though is an option for fights that make it really hard to shred at any time e.g.: kologarn or the cat lady fight do we just mangle when we are meant to shred or is there a more optimal solution I guess I have started to rely on your add-on a little to much tbh I recall seeing a previous post mentioning position related prediction is this to be expected in feature relies
Big thanks for this add-on it has helped me no end with maximising my rotation, one thing I would like to see added though is an option for fights that make it really hard to shred at any time e.g.: kologarn or the cat lady fight do we just mangle when we are meant to shred or is there a more optimal solution I guess I have started to rely on your add-on a little to much tbh I recall seeing a previous post mentioning position related prediction is this to be expected in feature relies
Big thanks for this add-on it has helped me no end with maximising my rotation, one thing I would like to see added though is an option for fights that make it really hard to shred at any time e.g.: kologarn or the cat lady fight do we just mangle when we are meant to shred or is there a more optimal solution I guess I have started to rely on your add-on a little to much tbh I recall seeing a previous post mentioning position related prediction is this to be expected in feature relies
For Auriaya you can just dps from behind and jump infront of her when she casts Sonic Shockwave.
In regards to armor pen i have tryed to find out a general "cap" or where it and would start to have dim returns. I use Both the Grim Toll and Mjolnir Runestone and self buffed about 15% armor pen i use armor pen food and it takes me to 18% or 225 armor pen then my trinkets proc take me 76% and if both proc 109% armor pen. I get generally lucky they don't proc at the same time one procs then the other at the end of the first one.
I'm 54% Crit self buffed and 7500AP and a JC and I gem all 3 27 armor pen gems and the rest Agi. I'm normally top DPS in 25man ulduar. I just want to maximize my DPS. I tryed to do the calculations based on 25man raid bosses armor with all the armor pen debuffs on them already but relay can not come to a solid number.
Any help would be much appreciated
You really want to have them proc at the same time, is a much bigger dps boost than having 1 up then when it runs out the other.
I tried that the last time we did Kologarn. It worked fine on the 'Right Arm', but as soon as I switched to the Torso, Shred was suggested again. Perhaps someone could look at this in the next version?
Big thanks for this add-on it has helped me no end with maximising my rotation, one thing I would like to see added though is an option for fights that make it really hard to shred at any time e.g.: kologarn or the cat lady fight do we just mangle when we are meant to shred or is there a more optimal solution I guess I have started to rely on your add-on a little to much tbh I recall seeing a previous post mentioning position related prediction is this to be expected in feature relies
If you simply uncheck the shred option, then it will suggest to mangle instead of shred.
Also, you can shred the cat lady, just move through her to the front as she casts the sonic screech or whatever its called, then back up.
Weapon dps converts to feral attack power at a rate of 14 feral attack power for 1 weapon dps, so if you want to weight weapon dps rather than feral attack power, just multiply the feral attack power weight by 14. (Technically feral attack power = 14*(weapon dps - 54.5) or so, but the additive constant isn't really important.)
Kay, I know that FBN says armor pen is king while Rawr is telling me (for my gear of course) that I should be gemming all agility. I have read that the reason for this is a difference in assumptions about kitty dps 'rotations'. Rawr assumes that rip will be up at all times making agility (rip crits) important. FBN assumes differently, making armor pen more important. Based on this information (please correct me if my assumptions are wrong) I have a question.
If I want to assume that FBN is 'right' and I should be using armor pen gems, can I still assume that Rawr's gear ratings are correct? How can I figure out which gear is better for me if I can't trust Rawr's decisions? Should I just use the weightings given on the first page in Pawn or something?
Also, up until 2.2.1 (I think) Rawr was also telling me to use armor pen gems, but now it's changed to all agility gems. Maybe something changed at that point that I'm unaware of?
Regardless of which one is right (this depends a lot on the fight and your gear level and your preferred rotations) the difference between the two is fairly small, on the order of 2 DPS per gem. The fact is that regardless of whether you favor going for more agi or armor pen, both are close enough that every piece that has both stats will be superior in general. Rawr will in general have a better relative value to you and be able to do things like weight the tier bonuses and hit/expertise more efficiently; just go with that and then consider gemming differently.
Personally, I've found that fights where I can do more shred/FB/swipe favor armor pen, and fights where rip is better (such as on phase shift fights where dots keep ticking) agility win out. But it's still not that big a deal one way or another.
Firstly, great work I have this addon running constantly.
Secondly, possible new best in slot staff for kitty's? link
Thirdly, I don't see any weapon damage in your weightings. With the move to armour pen and shred idol, wouldn't weapon damage play a big part in dps?
Yes, that staff is the new best in slot. It has less stam, and negligibly less AP but has 85 ArP in place of 64 hit compared to Dark Edge of Depravity and is effectively the same as Lotrafen, (has equal haste in place of crit rating), but the 2 gem slots raises the value quite significantly. Also, for JC druids, there is the option of getting an additional 8 agility. However, spending 2/3 dragon's eyes on 8 agility will probably be a waste, when other pieces of armor mostly require only one prismatic to gain a socket bonus of 4/6 agi.
After reading through this post, I'm still unsure. I spoke with a kittyfriend whom told me that agi is still the way to socket, and that arP where worse the more armor the boss had.
So what should I socket?
and that arP where worse the more armor the boss had.
All bosses are assumed to have the same amount of armor. And I believe that armor pen does more for you the more armor a boss has, given that you'll reduce a larger chunk overall.
You should probably socket agility, because that will make you feel correct. If you want to actually figure it out yourself and what is optimal, you'll have to figure out why FBN says armor pen and why rawr says agility, and figure out which is more right for you.
All bosses are assumed to have the same amount of armor. And I believe that armor pen does more for you the more armor a boss has, given that you'll reduce a larger chunk overall.
You should probably socket agility, because that will make you feel correct. If you want to actually figure it out yourself and what is optimal, you'll have to figure out why FBN says armor pen and why rawr says agility, and figure out which is more right for you.
2t7 I think really bumps up the value of agi, as it ensures more damage coming from rip as well as longer uptime. Like it was said previously, Rawr assumes that rip is up all the time, while FBN accounts for periods where rip is not up, thus the greater uptime of rip directly benefits from agi. Also, if there are times where you might have to offtank and there are certain pieces of gear that are used in both car and gear sets, the value of agi goes up too. My raid is really crazy about putting up shattering throw whenever possible, so with that in mind, as well the fact that I have 4t8, really makes ArP outweigh agi. Now if only I could get my hands on grim toll... Though I do have one thing to figure out, is that if the value of ArP is greatly diminished if I dont have grim toll and mjolnirs, to the point that agi is actually better.
I have neither grim toll nor mjolnirs and my personal DPS went up by about 300 when I socketed and geared more for armor penetration. I am sitting at 285 arpen currently, and I've definitely noticed improvements in overall damage.
What's interesting is that my rotation becomes much less consistent overall in this situation due to fewer CP, so I have to watch what I'm doing a bit more. In that respect I would say that if you're not a great feral DPSer agility is probably more forgiving than armor pen.
Rawr will in general have a better relative value to you and be able to do things like weight the tier bonuses and hit/expertise more efficiently; just go with that and then consider gemming differently.
My problem is, that RAWR does not rate ArPen right behind Agility, but a lot worse than Agi.
Given that fact, there is a high probability that the gear rankings provided by RAWR are quite inaccurate, even without considering different gemming.
How accurate is this simulation stuff.. because almost fully buffed with similar (possibly some better gear)... I'm nowhere near 7000 dps on a normal fight that doesn't offer any boss mechanics to boost dps. I would say on a patch style fight i sit around 5500 average.... how am i missing 1500 ?
How accurate is this simulation stuff.. because almost fully buffed with similar (possibly some better gear)... I'm nowhere near 7000 dps on a normal fight that doesn't offer any boss mechanics to boost dps. I would say on a patch style fight i sit around 5500 average.... how am i missing 1500 ?
Your gear is definitely not similar and is dramatically worse than what is slotted in the Ulduar BiS list.
@Helistar: Yes the str TPS value for bear is wrong in the table by exactly a factor 2 (yes was an excel formula error not a simulator error).
@Rawr vs FBN and Arpen:Obviosly if you use your gear for both tanking and dpsing agility is the way to go. Grim Toll and the other trinket increase ArPen value a lot, if you don't have at least one the value of Arpen is near Agility (still superior with enough arpen). Yes the formula for negative armor is the same as the one for positive armor.
Tiger lady: why you stay in front of her? You should do it only during sonic.
Razorscale: I've found the addon bug on it. During chained phase it can't attack you but it still has aggro. If you take aggro the addon code switch you to mangle spam because it think that the mob is facing you, I'll solve it in the next release.
The arms boss: sometimes it put shred icon also if you have unckeched "Use shred", it's simply omen of clarity, I'll add an extra check.
Last edited by nightcrowler : 05/08/09 at 3:34 AM.
Your gear is definitely not similar and is dramatically worse than what is slotted in the Ulduar BiS list.
Excuse me... However the 7000 dps is listed under the pre 3.1 NOT ulduar loot list. His simulations show around 7000 pre 3.1. Considering I am using some ulduar loot and very similar pre 3.1 gear I am nowhere near the numbers and I am wondering why.
05/07/09, 4:04 AM
