FeralbyNight (Cat & Bear simulation tool) - Page 22

manapaws · 04/24/09, 1:29 AM

@Nightcrowler:

I got to test out your addon this week and I have to say that I like it.

My only suggestion is that it should read your target's % remaining health better than it does. Ran Nax25 with a pug (since guild is focusing on Uld) and at 1% on Kelthuzad with 5 combo points up and 4 seconds remaining on savage roar (and probably on the boss's life) it was telling me to refresh savage roar.

nightcrowler · 04/24/09, 3:05 AM

@Mijae: very interesting, it means that I should remove 0 armor check from my addon and simulator, thanks for the info.
@mana: yes, I'll do that. At the moment I don't read the boss health at all, next step is to read health for a better kill rotation and also I'd like to see casting to add interrupt suggestion.
@Moosi: the BiS list is not updated, as said, I'll wait for more ulduar gear. Actually with the gear that was discovered in PTR 4T8> all. The gear list doesn't take into accout stats cap, special effects or set bonuses. As for using mangle, just go to /fbn -> cycle options -> uncheck "use shred if efficient".

Husyor · 04/24/09, 6:15 AM

Originally Posted by nightcrowler

@Mijae: very interesting, it means that I should remove 0 armor check from my addon and simulator, thanks for the info.
@mana: yes, I'll do that. At the moment I don't read the boss health at all, next step is to read health for a better kill rotation and also I'd like to see casting to add interrupt suggestion.
@Moosi: the BiS list is not updated, as said, I'll wait for more ulduar gear. Actually with the gear that was discovered in PTR 4T8> all. The gear list doesn't take into accout stats cap, special effects or set bonuses. As for using mangle, just go to /fbn -> cycle options -> uncheck "use shred if efficient".

I unchecked that tonight for Kologarn and it occasionally wanted me to shred still, I guess its a bug, but none the less great work on the addon.

Murna · 04/24/09, 8:19 AM

I have a question concerning ArPen and RAWR.

I've got 361 ArPen from Gear and Food (including Grim Toll, RAWR averages this trinket to approximately 124 ArPen), exactly 263 Hit and 40 expertise Rating.

RAWR shows, that the Idol of Worship is double as good as the Shred Idol. How come?

Aditionally, my relative Stat Value tables is looking as follows:

Agility - 1.35
Strength - 1.20
ArPen - 1.15
Crit - 1.11

According to nightcrowler, with my 361 ArPen, ArPen should be best stat. Why doesn't Rawr back this up?

nightcrowler · 04/24/09, 8:41 AM

Originally Posted by Husyor

I unchecked that tonight for Kologarn and it occasionally wanted me to shred still, I guess its a bug, but none the less great work on the addon.

No it's simply OOC proc. I can add a check for boss name on that fight, I'll try it.

An important question.
I'm trying to add cycle specific issue for Ulduar bosses. I'm not that far on the progress (I've done till Kologarn). Is there any specific fight where you want to use specific abilities or different cycles?

bavelb · 04/24/09, 9:52 AM

Originally Posted by Murna

I
According to nightcrowler, with my 361 ArPen, ArPen should be best stat. Why doesn't Rawr back this up?

Have you checked the Armor debuffs like Sunder and FF?

Murna · 04/24/09, 9:55 AM

Of course I did.

I have 33% Armor Mitigation.
20% Sunder, 5% FFF and the rest from my 361 ArPen Rating.

Nioreh · 04/24/09, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Murna

According to nightcrowler, with my 361 ArPen, ArPen should be best stat. Why doesn't Rawr back this up?

Rawr assumes 100% rip uptime and doesnt use FB in its cycle.

Hezkezl · 04/24/09, 1:43 PM

Originally Posted by Nioreh

Rawr assumes 100% rip uptime and doesnt use FB in its cycle.

With their new version (I'm not sure if it's the same for previous versions, as I just noticed it today) they do have an 'optimal rotation' readout on their screen for cats. For me, it shows Rake+Shred+Rip+Bite+Roar4. Hovering over it, it tells me to keep a 4-point SR up, Keep Rake up, Keep 5cp Rip up, use FB to use up extra CPs, and use Shred to get Cps. I can only hope that with that kind of 'logic', that they include the use of FB in their item values, but I'm not sure.

In any case, the addon is working fairly well with me. Some kind of explanation as to what all of the checkboxes mean could be helpful. Sorry if it's in this thread, I'll re-read it later today, taking a quick break at work right now to post this. The main one I had to do a double take at, was the 'Use Shred if Optimal' one. Aren't we always supposed to use shred, if rake/mangle/SR is up? Or is that what this option means?

syntax53 · 04/24/09, 2:02 PM

Rawr 2.2.1.0 was released today. While "- Updated to the new ArPen model for 3.1" is in the patch notes, it still isn't valuing ArP anywhere near Agility. It's showing me as having 355 ArP (with grim toll avg) and with only sunder armor and faerie fire checked off on buffs it's weighting agility at 0.94 and ArP at 0.76 (below crit and strength). Fully raid buffed agility is at 1.36 and ArP is 1.20 (only below strength at 1.22).

animagi · 04/24/09, 2:11 PM

just throwing the data out there, i spent 2x 4 minute sessions on a target dummy with the same gear. first time i used the FeralByNight addon and was at 3700 dps, the second time i used the FaceMauler addon and was at 4100 dps. these were completely unbuffed (not even mark). i haven't tried on a dummy with full raid buffs yet.

stats:
7147 AP
261 Hit
228 ArPen
51.96% crit
23 expertise
0.93 Attack Speed

Shred idol
2pc T7
Berserking
Relentless metaGlyph of Rip
Glyph of Shred
Glyph of Savage Roar

bn3 · 04/24/09, 2:23 PM

i dont think 2x 4 min sessions is enough to eliminate the rng factor maybe tray a few more sessions would defenatly be intresting if there was a big diffrance

mesh7 · 04/24/09, 3:10 PM

Originally Posted by syntax53

Rawr 2.2.1.0 was released today. While "- Updated to the new ArPen model for 3.1" is in the patch notes, it still isn't valuing ArP anywhere near Agility. It's showing me as having 355 ArP (with grim toll avg) and with only sunder armor and faerie fire checked off on buffs it's weighting agility at 0.94 and ArP at 0.76 (below crit and strength). Fully raid buffed agility is at 1.36 and ArP is 1.20 (only below strength at 1.22).

This is an interesting note, because Toskk's feral dps site also puts the new ArPen way below Agi. Toskk's site does this regardless of what stats you put in. I know ArPen scales the more you have, but after using ArPen values of 500, 600, etc., Toskk still has Arpen at or alittle less then Agi.

Who's correct Toskk/Rawr or Nightcrowler's method?

Mijae · 04/24/09, 3:29 PM

Originally Posted by mesh7

Who's correct Toskk/Rawr or Nightcrowler's method?

This is theorycrafting. If that were an easy answer, everyone would already be agreeing. The main issue is that calculators try to guess what your cycles will look like averaged over time. However, they will only be accurate if you are performing your cycles exactly like the calculator describes. So, it depends on your cycle and I can guarantee that none of them match exactly what occurs in game.

If the FBN addon follows the exact same rules that his simulator does AND you are following the addon with zero errors, his results should be valid. Otherwise, they won't be a perfect match and your real stat values will vary.

Nightcrawler - I really think you should post the explanation of stat importance you gave here on the main post. It could really help to clear up the questions people might have as to why one stat might be better than another. I've always tried to explain the difference in value between Str and Agi in the past (when they were nearly equal), and it seems that basically ArP has just replaced Str now.

mekell · 04/24/09, 4:10 PM

Night and others, other than just providing data via brute force simulation, can someone explain to me why its generally not desired to gem for +hit if you are below the hit cap for feral cats? I seem to recall reading about the two-roll system and it having something to do with it since a large portion of cat dps is yellow special damage. I have tried searching EJ and google and everything and just cannot find a good explanation.