FeralbyNight (Cat & Bear simulation tool) - Page 33

nightcrowler · 05/13/09, 9:01 AM

I'm not planing to introduce gloves on use enchant (at least not soon). But basically we are talking about 20 agility vs. those 2 enchants. Actually 340 haste for 10 second every minutes average out at 57 haste. Probably it's a bit better than that because you can use it at full energy and haste stack a bit with itself. Said that, let's have a nominal value of 60 haste. 60 haste gives 1.2*60 = 72 dps. 20 agility gives 1.53*20 = 30.6 dps. So it's pure win.

30.6 dps are 1836 damage on 1 minute. the other enchant you mentioned is 1440 to 1760 damage every 45 seconds if I understand it rightly or 35.5 dps, the difference in this case is minimal and probably will be better the agility enchant for sinergy. So I think that without many calculation the right enchant for an engeenier should be Hyperspeed Accelerators.

P.S.
I also use Mac.

@SS_Keera

As a personal feeling I'll use Twisted Visage + mongoose on adds and low hitting bosses, origin of nightmares + blood draining for hard hitting / silencing bosses, baddly blood draining doesn't dropp for us.

syntax53 · 05/13/09, 9:08 AM

Originally Posted by Allev

Can you verify whether you were in melee range and attacking the entire time? Something definitely isn't right here-- you missed the equivalent of 30 swings.

Last night on ignis my rotation was shit, luck was not good, and I the hit wrong buttons a few times. What I did notice though is in addition to us moving him around while we kill two golems he also moves to throw people in the slag pot. So any time a ranged gets thrown in the pot he moves behind me for a few seconds. Usually I try to back up as quick as I can but I'm sure a few swings are missed there as well.

Originally Posted by nightcrowler

- Battle shout was up 4:20 / 5:00 minutes.
- You missed hearth of the crusader or similar effects (3% more crit)
- mangle was up only 4:04/ 5:00
- you missed 10 sec of sunders and 5 sec of FFF
- you missed blood poison/blood frenzy effect (4% more damage)
- you missed windfury? I can't find it on report.
- you missed ret pally haste aura.

Also Syntax was applying mangle so no mangle bot for him and a mangle bot itself value around 300 dps.

Yea, no mangle bot. Would love me a mangle bot but our only dps warrior is fury. Note that I didn't throw up FF until 4 seconds in and didn't start swinging 'till 5 seconds in. And yes, our ret paladin was not online that night (nor was he last night).

Anyway, here are the reports from last night:
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish
Wow Web Stats

Last night I picked up [Drape of the Lithe] so I was able to replace some gems to get more ArP. I'm now up to 435 armor penetration before grim toll. So I'm excited to see what kind of numbers I can pull now. Rawr still has agility valued at 1.13 with ArP at 0.94... shrug.

By the way, I ran a Nax pug over the weekend. On patch I hit 6214 dps with the next 3 below me @ 5k, 4.7k, and 4.3k dps. On thaddius I hit 9552 with the next 3 dps @ 7k, 6.7k, and 5.9k. It felt good. People were like, "How do you do so much dps?" hah.

• Melthu · 05/13/09, 9:11 AM

Originally Posted by Allev

Looking at this:

- The gear looks approximately equal to
- It's hard to tell exactly how long you were in combat-- it looks like you pulled the boss, while you ran in you applied FF, starting your personal combat, and then another few seconds before you started attacking. Anyways, it looks like 10-15 seconds were clipped off the full 5 minute fight-- does that sound right? (I'm going to use 285 seconds as the length of the fight for estimations).
- You had 30 seconds of downtime on Battle Shout, so we have to assume your damage was a little low from that.
- You got pretty lucky with crits on shred/rip, so if this is a personal high performance, it may have been RNG-related.
- So, first indicator of incorrect sim DPS: autoattacks. Average white damage in the first post is 2200+, while you're grabbing 1861 (530,451/285). The number of attacks also seems low-- .783 attacks per swing. That seems pretty high if you've got a haste buff going on-- on a 300 second fight with WF/Icy Talons/Bloodlust or Heroism, you get .80 or so just from those alone. Can you verify whether you were in melee range and attacking the entire time? Something definitely isn't right here-- you missed the equivalent of 30 swings.

He was hit by 9 flame jets. If he had a 0.75 second auto-attack swing time, 2.5 seconds of being out of melee range per flame jet would add up to 30 lost swings. That seems reasonable from my experience.

rahba · 05/13/09, 9:54 AM

What kind of rip uptime would you need for agility to be superior to armor pen? I'm also wondering if a zero FB rotation is better if you're stacking agility.

I don't have much of a choice since I'm a tank first and a dps second, so I have to gem agility if it's something I want to use for both. I'd like to optimize as best as I can though.

Desta77 · 05/13/09, 10:18 AM

it's my first post here so i would like to say hi:]
FeralByNight is a great addon ur doin great job Nightcrowler

i'm wondering that any of u have seen that post:

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Feral dps supposed to be this high? 8-9k dps?

what do u think about that??
anyone knows that is only a simmulation and dps which is shown on that simulations is almoust unavlible to manage on many of fight on naxx and ulduar
im plain feral dps and highest dps i manage is 8k on thadius, my normal dps is something about 5k maybe my gear isnt as good as in simulations but im sure that geared druid want each that high on normal fights...

btw this is my armoury link:http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...indoun&n=Desta
i will be glad if u will be able to advise my what i sholud change first in my gear

sory for my english:]

Ayriss · 05/13/09, 11:20 AM

I have to say that i'm extremely impressed with the work you've done Nightcrawler. I especially like the work you're doing on cat-dps. Your addon is fun to use, and the suggestion-box is fun to use when you dont want to think for yourlself.

However i did some testing on target dummys using the suggestions FBN addon will propose. Sometimes I felt, that i had too little rip uptime (i've read your thoughts about rip uptime though). Other times I saw that i had 0 debuffs (except fearie fire) on the target dummy. Then the addon suggestion building up the debuffs again, but is it really supposed to be like this? It just feels, wrong. The DPS recorded on recount (selfbuffed) was 4139 over 2,100,000 damage so thats pretty decend.

//Ayriss

nightcrowler · 05/13/09, 11:41 AM

@Ayriss:

Actually I've done some tests on dummies myself today (about 40 minutes) and I've recorded 4120 dps, I've about BiS pre-ulduar gear, chest from hodir, staff from XT but I don't have Noble deck nor KT cape, so it should average out and I'm about 100 dps lower than simulated values.

I should tell the thruth to you. I don't know if it's ok that much downtime. Actually inside the simulator (and the addon) I've pushed some pseudo-AI who compute the best down-time of rake/rip/mangle based on your crit/ap/haste/etc.. (so it should works fine also on dummies) but to test if it works correctly I've used full buffed stats, so I don't know if unbuffed on dummies for istance is better to have an higher dot/debuff uptime or there is a different stats allocation and variables unimportant for 25-men becames important (for istance I know I should add a check for bleeds) but I should also say: "Is it really important to do let's say 100-150 more dps on a dummy?" what really matters are raid-dps and is for that kind of things that the code is optimized.

Moosi · 05/13/09, 11:49 AM

@Nightcrowler - A few suggestions for the next build of either the addon or the simulation.

1. Not everyone is a JCer with access to the +27 gems. Please consider add an option for JC'ing 'Y/N'.

2. As with FFF, Berserk, add an option to remove Ferocious Bite from the rotation. Many people are of the impression that using FB, where correct or not, costs them DPS. Allow them the option to compare either in game or via the simulator.

3. Latency can play a huge role in terms of how close someone comes to the simulation. Would providing additional DPS reports for varying latencies (other than the 90ms latency already included) be a possibility? Would you consider adding something along the lines of a 200ms, 300ms, and 400ms to your Cat SIM reports.

I for one am eagerly looking forward to the next version addon.

Deathwing · 05/13/09, 1:12 PM

Night: I disagree about your assessment of HP. It only affects your minimum TTL in absolute values. What's the difference between 46k and 50k hp if vezax will still splat you in 3 hits? All it really does is increase your healer's efficiency a small bit by reducing overhealing. Not nearly as much as mitigation & avoidance will. I think healers THINK it helps because they see you take two big hits, an extra 7k on grid "looks" better. But if that next swing connects, you're dead either way.

Yes, if healer mana isn't a concern, why not gem for sta anyway since it works on spell damage too? Avoidance and mitigation will reduce the amount of times you have to test your minimum TTL. Fewer times I have to make my healers go "oh shit" and divert attention away from someone else that needs healing, the better.

That said, I have a high hp gear set for fights like mimiron and high physical damage bosses. But the extra hp is only useful if you reach the next plateau of consecutive hits taken.

Allev · 05/13/09, 1:58 PM

Originally Posted by Deathwing

Night: I disagree about your assessment of HP. It only affects your minimum TTL in absolute values. What's the difference between 46k and 50k hp if vezax will still splat you in 3 hits? All it really does is increase your healer's efficiency a small bit by reducing overhealing. Not nearly as much as mitigation & avoidance will. I think healers THINK it helps because they see you take two big hits, an extra 7k on grid "looks" better. But if that next swing connects, you're dead either way.

Yes, if healer mana isn't a concern, why not gem for sta anyway since it works on spell damage too? Avoidance and mitigation will reduce the amount of times you have to test your minimum TTL. Fewer times I have to make my healers go "oh shit" and divert attention away from someone else that needs healing, the better.

That said, I have a high hp gear set for fights like mimiron and high physical damage bosses. But the extra hp is only useful if you reach the next plateau of consecutive hits taken.

The difference between 46k and 50k is that the minimum your healers have to heal you to prevent you from dying is raised by 4k. While "I took 3 hits for 60k and got no heals" situation occurs (and more stam wouldn't help), you may also run into the situation of taking 3 hits for 60k and you got 10k-14k healing.

You look at the first situation when you die on parses, you never look at the second.

Deathwing · 05/13/09, 2:39 PM

10k-14k healing over 3 boss hits sounds more like a healer fail than a "tank geared wrong" fail. Or, it's a fight like Vezax where the healers can't spam the tank. But that's a known situation and it's a fight where I would wear more sta.

Plus, as I said, sacrificing mitigation for sta means you will put yourself in those situations(consecutive boss hits) much more often. So, you can look at it

-60k damage max with only 10k healing and live, occurs 10% of the time
-56k damage max with only 10k healing and live, occurs 5% of the time

Which is favorable, assuming they are completely random events? I'll admit the 10% and 5% numbers are completely fabricated, but I wouldn't be surprised if the difference is that pronounced since the dodge difference is compounded over many hits.

minekomineko · 05/13/09, 4:01 PM

I was looking over the wowhead gear ranking list, and to me it seems like the trinket section is all wrong. I mean, caster trinkets are in the top four, and the novelty tentacle trinket made the BiS. That doesn't seem right at all.

syntax53 · 05/13/09, 4:11 PM

New Rawr version out--
Rawr - Release: Rawr v2.2.3
"Rawr.Cat: Fixes and improvements to rotations"

... just checked my gear and it finally lists ArP over agility:

Armor Penetration Rating 1.29
Agility 1.22
Strength 1.22
Haste Rating 0.93
Crit Rating 0.91
Attack Power 0.52
Hit Rating 0.30

a civilian · 05/13/09, 4:33 PM

Originally Posted by minekomineko

I was looking over the wowhead gear ranking list, and to me it seems like the trinket section is all wrong. I mean, caster trinkets are in the top four, and the novelty tentacle trinket made the BiS. That doesn't seem right at all.

The proc effects and on-use effects are not valued.

minekomineko · 05/13/09, 5:01 PM

Originally Posted by a civilian

The proc effects and on-use effects are not valued.

I should have figured that out. Thanks for the help.