FeralbyNight (Cat & Bear simulation tool) - Page 36

bthomenub · 06/22/09, 10:55 PM

Hi, I just have a question regarding armor penetration, apologies if it has been asked before (I looked but may have missed it).

My problem is that my raids are never properly stacked, so it is 50-50 whether I get a manglebot in 25mans, and rarely in 10mans. As this lowers the number of shreds I can do, I figure it also lowers the value of the shred idol and therefore also armor penetration. I currently use the RIP idol, gem for agility and do not yet have an armor penetration trinket.

Put simply, if you are the manglebot, is it ever worth using the shred idol; and at what kind of ArP values are you going to want to begin using armor penetration?

"At about 350 ArPen with RIP idol and 200 ArPen with Shred idol, ArPen becames a better stats than agility."

I could currently reach around 390 passive ArP, but I presume the 350 figure quoted for the RIP idol is with a manglebot, clearly without one the ArP required should be even higher, so I'm unsure whether to switch or not.

I realise this is hardly important for progression guilds, or BiS dps, but if anyone has any information it would be much appreciated.

Pheratia · 06/23/09, 4:09 AM

The corrupter idol is better than either if you are mangling.

nightcrowler · 06/23/09, 6:08 AM

The time is come to finalize the addon (the current EJ-version lasted too long). I've done a great overhaul and I hope you'll be all happy about it. I'm working hard on it those days and I've basically finished, I hope to push a semi-final release for the next reset and after a brief testing the first final release.

I'm actually working at the Ulduar Boss Mode for FBN.
I'll post you a list of boss auras, boss name and boss spells.
Basically what you should do if you want to help me is the following (or some of them):

- check the spell/buff/boss id.
- tell me if I miss something.
- tell me what suite best for a feral druid and put it in one of those categories for cats and for bears:
- Boss/Player buff/cast: interrupt / kitte / go away / use survival CD / turn (you can check more than one, for istance you should want to use surv cd or go away with the emalon nova, or kitte / use surv cd at vezax, you could want to check for interrupt some boss abilities and so on)
- Boss/Player buff/cast: don't use or use a specific ability (for istance if you have the crit damage increase at hodir fight you don't want to use rake also you'll probably want to use berserking only with at least 1-2 fight buff stacked)
- Boss specific tips: for istance Kologarn = don't use shred and so on.

here the list I've made (it's only the list, to review the code you should wait the next FBN push):

	FeralbyNight.bossaura={
	["Tempest Minion - Overcharged"] = GetSpellInfo(64217),
	["Razor - Devouring Flame"] = GetSpellInfo(63014),
	["Razor - Fuse Armor"] = GetSpellInfo(64771),
	["XT - Exposed Heart"] = GetSpellInfo(63849),
	["SteelBreaker - Council - Fusion Pounch"] = GetSpellInfo(61903),
	["SteelBreaker - Council - Static Disruption"] = GetSpellInfo(61912),
	["SteelBreaker - Council - Overwhelming Power"] = GetSpellInfo(61888),
	["Runemaster - Council - Runic Barrier"] = GetSpellInfo(62338),
	["Runemaster - Council - Rune of Power"] = GetSpellInfo(64320),
	["Runemaster - Council - Rune of Death"] = GetSpellInfo(63490),
	["Stormcaller - Council - Lightning Whirl"] = GetSpellInfo(61915),
	["Stormcaller - Council - Lightning Tendrils"] = GetSpellInfo(61887),
	["Kologarn - Focused Eyebeam"] = GetSpellInfo(63976),
	["Kologarn - Crunch Armor"] = GetSpellInfo(64002),
	["Auriaya - Terrifying Screech"] = GetSpellInfo(64386),
	["Auriaya - Seeping Feral Essence"] = GetSpellInfo(64459),
	["Freya - Fungi"] = GetSpellInfo(62619),
	["Freya - Conservator's Grip"] = GetSpellInfo(62532),
	["Freya - Nature's Fury"] = GetSpellInfo(62589),
	["Brightleaf - Brightleaf Flux"] = GetSpellInfo(62262),
	["Ironbranch - Impale"] = GetSpellInfo(62310),
	["Stonebark - Fist of Stone"] = GetSpellInfo(62344),
	["Stonebark - Petrified Bark"] = GetSpellInfo(62337),
	["Stonebark - Broken Bones"] = GetSpellInfo(62354),
	["Hodir - Freeze"] = GetSpellInfo(62469),
	["Hodir - Frozen Blow"] = GetSpellInfo(63512),
	["Hodir - Starlight"] = GetSpellInfo(62807),
	["Hodir - Stormpower"] = GetSpellInfo(65134),
	["Hodir - Toasty Fire"] = GetSpellInfo(62821),
	["Hodir - Singed"] = GetSpellInfo(65280),
	["Mimiron - Napalm Shell"] = GetSpellInfo(63666),
	["Mimiron - Plasma Blast"] = GetSpellInfo(62997),
	["Mimiron - Magnetic Field"] = GetSpellInfo(64668),
	["Thorim - Lightning Charge"] = GetSpellInfo(62279),
	["Thorim - Unbalancing Strike"] = GetSpellInfo(62130),
	["Thorim - Frostbolt Volley"] = GetSpellInfo(62580),
	["Thorim - Frostnova"] = GetSpellInfo(62597),
	["Thorim - Blizzard"] = GetSpellInfo(62576),
	["Thorim - Runic Colossus - Runic Barrier"] = GetSpellInfo(62338),	
	["Vezax - Surge of Darkness"] = GetSpellInfo(62662),
	["Yogg - Sara's Fervor"] = GetSpellInfo(63138),	
	["Yogg - Sara's Anger"] = GetSpellInfo(63147),	
	["Yogg - Dark volley"] = GetSpellInfo(63038),	
	["Yogg - Sanity"] = GetSpellInfo(63050),	
	["Yogg - Brain Link"] = GetSpellInfo(63802),		
	}


	
	FeralbyNight.bossid={
		["Training Dummy"] = 31144,
		["Heroic Training Dummy"] = 31146,
		["Flame Leviathan"] = 33113,
		["Flame Leviathan Turret"] = 33139,
		["Ignis"] = 33118,
		["Razorscale"] = 33186,
		["Dark Rune Watcher"] = 33453,
		["Dark Rune Sentinel"] = 33846,
		["Dark Rune Guardian"] = 33388,
		["XT-002"] = 33293,
		["Heart of the Deconstructor"] = 33329,
		["Stormcaller"] = 32857,
		["Steelbreaker"] = 32867,
		["Molgeim"] = 32927,
		["Kologarn body"] = 32930,
		["Kologarn left arm"]= 32933,
		["Kologarn right arm"]= 32934,
		["Auriaya"] = 33515,
		["Sanctum Sentry"] = 34014,
		["Feral Defender"] = 34035,
		["Mimiron"] = 33350,
		["Leviathan Mk II"] = 33432,
		["VX-001"] = 33651,
		["ACU"] = 33670,
		["Hodir"] = 32845,
		["Thorim"] = 32865,
		["Dark Rune Acolyte"] = 33110,
		["Dark Rune Evoker"] = 32878,
		["Dark Rune Champion"] = 32876,
		["Dark Rune Commoner"] = 32904,
		["Dark Rune Warbringer"] = 32877,
		["Iron Ring Guard"] = 32874,
		["Runic Colossus"] = 32872,
		["Iron Honor Guard"] = 33125,
		["Ancient Rune Giant"] = 32873,
		["Freya"] = 32906,
		["Elder Brightleaf"] = 32915,
		["Elder Ironbranch"] = 32913,
		["Elder Stonebark"] = 32914,
		["Detonating Lasher"] = 32918,
		["Ancient Water Spirit"] = 33202,
		["Storm Lasher"] = 32919,
		["Snaplasher"] = 32916,
		["Ancient Conservator"] = 33203,
		["Eonar's Gift"] = 33228,
		["General Vezax"] = 33271,
		["Yogg-Saron"] = 33288,
		["Guardians of Yogg-Saron"] = 33136,
		["Immortal Guardian"] = 33988,
		["Brain of Yogg-Saron"] = 33890,
		["Crusher Tentacle"] = 33966,
		["Constrictor Tentacle"] = 33983,
		["Corruptor Tentacle"] = 33985,
		["Algalon"] = 32871,
		["Collapsing Star"] = 32955,
		["Living Constellation"] = 33052,
		["Emalon"] = 33993,
		["Tempest Minion"] = 33998,
	}



	FeralbyNight.bosscast={
	["Emalon - Lightning Nova"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(64216),
	["Razor-Watcher-Chain 1"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(64758),
	["Razor-Watcher-Chain 2"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(64759),
	["Stormcaller - Council - Chain Lightning"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(61879),
	["Stormcaller - Council - Overload"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(61869),
	["Auriaya - Sonic Screech"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(64422),
	["Auriaya - Sentinel Blast"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(64389),
	["Auriaya - Terrifying Screech"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(64386),
	["Mimiron - Plasma Blast"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(62997),
	["Mimiron - Shock Blast"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(63631),
	["Mimiron - Laser Barrage"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(63293),
	["Thorim - Acolyte - Greater Heal"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(62334),
	["Mimiron - Evoker - Runic Mending"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(62328),
	["Vezax - Surge of Darkness"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(62662),	
	["Vezax - Searing Flame"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(62611),
	["Yogg - Dark volley"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(63038),	
	}

If you want you should also look at the raid buff / self buff / CDs / spell important to watch, remember that the list include only spells that dosn't directly display on your paper doll (for istance is not important to trak BoK or trueshoot aura because they directly change your stats so I can read them there)

FeralbyNight.L["Rake"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(48574)
	FeralbyNight.L["Rake Debuff"] = GetSpellInfo(1822)
	FeralbyNight.L["Rip"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(49800)
	FeralbyNight.L["Rip Debuff"] = GetSpellInfo(1079)
	FeralbyNight.L["Mangle (Cat)"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(48566)
	FeralbyNight.L["Mangle (Cat) Debuff"] = GetSpellInfo(33983)
	FeralbyNight.L["Mangle (Bear)"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(48564)
	FeralbyNight.L["Mangle (Bear) Debuff"] = GetSpellInfo(33987)
	FeralbyNight.L["Trauma"] = GetSpellInfo(46854)
	FeralbyNight.L["Faerie Fire"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(770)
	FeralbyNight.L["Clearcasting"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(16870)
	FeralbyNight.L["Savage Roar"] = GetSpellInfo(52610)
	FeralbyNight.L["Tiger's Fury"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(50213)
	FeralbyNight.L["Berserk"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(50334)
	FeralbyNight.L["Shred"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(48572)
	FeralbyNight.L["Ferocious Bite"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(48577)
	--FeralbyNight.L["Faerie Fire (Feral)(Rank 6)"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(16857)
	FeralbyNight.L["Faerie Fire (Feral)"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(16857)
	FeralbyNight.L["Cat Form"] = GetSpellInfo(768)
		FeralbyNight.L["Curse of Recklessness"] = GetSpellInfo(16231)
	FeralbyNight.L["Sting"] = GetSpellInfo(56631)
	FeralbyNight.L["Acid Spit"] = GetSpellInfo(55754)
	FeralbyNight.L["Expose Armor"] = GetSpellInfo(8647)
	FeralbyNight.L["Sunder Armor"] = GetSpellInfo(7386)
	FeralbyNight.L["Heart of the Crusader"] = GetSpellInfo(20337)
	FeralbyNight.L["Master Poisoner"] = GetSpellInfo(58410)
	FeralbyNight.L["Totem of Wrath"] = GetSpellInfo(30706)
	FeralbyNight.L["Lacerate"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(48568)
	FeralbyNight.L["Lacerate Debuff"] = GetSpellInfo(33745)
	FeralbyNight.L["Maul"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(48480)
	FeralbyNight.L["Demoralizing Roar"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(48560)
	FeralbyNight.L["Demoralizing Roar Debuff"] = GetSpellInfo(99)
	FeralbyNight.L["Demoralizing Shout"] = GetSpellInfo(25203)
	FeralbyNight.L["Curse of Weakness"] = GetSpellInfo(50511)
	FeralbyNight.L["Barkskin"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(22812)
	FeralbyNight.L["Survival Instincts"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(61336)
	FeralbyNight.L["Swipe (Bear)"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(48562)
	FeralbyNight.L["Growl"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(6795)
	FeralbyNight.L["Dire Bear Form"] = GetSpellInfo(9634)
	FeralbyNight.L["Enrage"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(5229)
	FeralbyNight.L["Heroic Presence (a)"] = GetSpellInfo(28878)
	FeralbyNight.L["Heroic Presence (b)"] = GetSpellInfo(6562)
	FeralbyNight.L["Maim"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(49802)
	FeralbyNight.L["Bash"] = FbN_GetSpellNameById(8983)

tezen · 06/23/09, 9:54 AM

I do have a question, have you factored in the results of the shred glyph to take into account shredding at least 3 times to maximize the rip time?

nightcrowler · 06/23/09, 11:43 AM

@Tezen:
the newest version of the simulator (version W) take it into account, I've also included it in the newest version of the addon (not yet released), it will suggest to shred instead of rake if it's better (due to shred glyph / arpen or particular fights mechanics) and it will also show the "number of stack" on the rip timer icon.

ramenchef · 06/23/09, 3:24 PM

I some quick questions on configuring the simulator. Should I be editting the base_agi variable since I am a tauren? I also do not see a base_str. Finally, when entering the final stats of the gearset I wish to test, it's just the stats from the gear before including talents and removing base stats?

kalbear · 06/23/09, 5:23 PM

My results are the same (I figured 1.92% with current gear), the sky isn't falling. This is, more or less, a paper nerf to shut people up.

And it's confirmed: the reduction in coefficients is all that happened and scaling was left unchanged (at least in the tooltips):

* Mangle (Cat) now causes 200% normal damage plus 566 (down from 634) damage at max rank.
* Rip now causes [ 6/12/18/24/30% of AP + 774/1332/1890/2448/3006 ] damage over 12 sec at max rank. (Down from [ 6/12/18/24/30% of AP + 828/1422/2016/2610/3204 ] damage)
* Shred now shred the target for 226% damage plus 666 at max rank. (Down from 742.5)
* Swipe now inflicts 250% weapon damage. (Down from 260%)

bthomenub · 06/23/09, 7:08 PM

Originally Posted by Pheratia

corrupter idol is better than either if you are mangling

Yes I realise that, perhaps I should have left the idol discussion out of it. My point was just that since you are not using the shred idol as a manglebot, you will need more ArP for it to be worth stacking. The fact that you need around 350 ArP for it to be worthwhile if using the RIP idol suggests that as a manglebot, you will need even more. All I really want to know is how much ArP you are going to need for it to be beneficial as a manglebot (or atleast, how much to not see a noticable drop in dps, so that when you do have a manglebot you can benefit).

dewzer · 06/23/09, 7:09 PM

Druid

* Druid T9 Feral 2P Bonus (Class: Druid) -- Decreases the cooldown on your Growl ability by 2 sec and increases the duration of your Rake ability by 3 sec.
* Druid T9 Feral 4P Bonus (Class: Druid) -- Increases the damage reduction granted by Barkskin by 10% and increases the critical strike chance of Rip and Ferocious Bite by 5%.
* Druid T9 Balance 2P Bonus (Moonfire) (Class: Druid) -- Your Moonfire ability now has a chance for its periodic damage to be critical strikes.
* Druid T9 Balance 4P Bonus (Starfire) (Class: Druid) -- Increases the critical strike chance of your Starfire spell by 5%.
* Druid T9 Restoration 2P Bonus (Nourish) (Class: Druid) -- Increases the critical strike chance of your Nourish spell by 5%.
* Druid T9 Restoration 4P Bonus (Rejuvenation) (Class: Druid) -- Your Rejuvenation ability now has a chance for its healing to be critical strikes.

those dont seem to impressive to me from a first glance. what do u guys think?

New Druid Idols

* Druid T9 Feral Relic (Lacerate, Swipe, Mangle, and Shred) (Class: Druid) -- While in Bear Form, your Lacerate and Swipe abilities have a chance to grant 200 dodge rating for 9 sec, and your Mangle and Shred abilities have a chance to grant 200 agility for 16 sec.
* Druid T9 Restoration Relic (Rejuvenation) (Class: Druid) -- Each time your Rejuvenation spell deals periodic healing, you have a chance to gain 234 spell power for 9 sec.
* Druid T9 Balance Relic (Moonfire) (Class: Druid) -- Each time your Moonfire spell deals periodic damage, you have a chance to gain 200 critical strike rating for 12 sec.

rolling bear and cat idols together finally too

Sharandris · 06/23/09, 8:12 PM

Berserk
I think the option of having the addon suggest a clever usage of Berserk is a must-have (sorry if this is already included in the newest version).

Most of the time, this can be handled by waiting for Heroism/Bloodlust and just keeping it on cooldown from then (of course, you must have a shaman for this).
This assumes that Berserk scales with these buffs and I'm not too sure of that.
If it doesn't scale at all, just keep it on cooldown following the already implemented rules (= no change).

Additional rules could look like this:

Flame Leviathan: Berserk only on turrets.
Razorscale: Only on Razorscale herself.
Ignis: No additional rules.
XT-002: First one with heart phase, further ones depending on whether you are doing hardmode or not (however, I guess it's okay to neglect normal mode).
Iron Council: Only on Steelbreaker or after Steelbreaker has died (should apply to all variations).
Kologarn: No additional rules.
Auriaya: Tricky because of the inconsistent number of kills of the feral defender. Still, limiting Berserk usage to herself should be ok.
Hodir: Tied to the buff you gain from the moonkin's light pillars.
Thorim: Only on Thorim himself. There shouldn't be a reason to use Berserk before.
Freya: Tricky, since you sometimes dps Freya between phases. However, limiting Berserk to the big tree adds and Freya herself should still be alright.
Mimiron: Only on boss targets. This should prevent issues with phase 3.
General: No additional rules.
Yogg-Saron: Only on the brain and Yogg himself. Better don't use it at all in phase 1.
Algalon: No clue.

Haste Potions
They are almost a must-have for hardmodes. Same as with Heroism/Bloodlust, I'm not sure whether they improve anything besides our white damage. If so, clever usage of the potions should be suggested together with Berserk.

Feral Charge & Sprint
Sometimes, they play a role in encounters. I have no time to work on a full list like I did with Berserk, but the Stormcaller from Iron Council while out of range and not casting Overload is one example.

Include most common trinkets
Currently, this only affects tanking. I guess you can put all dps trinkets with a use effect in three categories: "Use whenever possible", "use before Berserk" and, if the cd is shorter than Berserk, "use before Rip".
Tanking trinkets are a bit trickier, but most trinkets use +Hp or +Dodge.

But, of course, first things first. Interrupting e.g. is much more important. However, bosses like General sometimes want you to kick only every second cast. This should be taken into consideration.

nse360 · 06/23/09, 8:18 PM

Originally Posted by dewzer

Druid

* Druid T9 Feral 2P Bonus (Class: Druid) -- Decreases the cooldown on your Growl ability by 2 sec and increases the duration of your Rake ability by 3 sec.
* Druid T9 Feral 4P Bonus (Class: Druid) -- Increases the damage reduction granted by Barkskin by 10% and increases the critical strike chance of Rip and Ferocious Bite by 5%.
* Druid T9 Balance 2P Bonus (Moonfire) (Class: Druid) -- Your Moonfire ability now has a chance for its periodic damage to be critical strikes.
* Druid T9 Balance 4P Bonus (Starfire) (Class: Druid) -- Increases the critical strike chance of your Starfire spell by 5%.
* Druid T9 Restoration 2P Bonus (Nourish) (Class: Druid) -- Increases the critical strike chance of your Nourish spell by 5%.
* Druid T9 Restoration 4P Bonus (Rejuvenation) (Class: Druid) -- Your Rejuvenation ability now has a chance for its healing to be critical strikes.

those dont seem to impressive to me from a first glance. what do u guys think?

I'm really, REALLY hoping these are either incorrect or not final as they're both a downgrade from the 2pc/4pc of Tier 8. /pray to Kitty gods for better bonuses.

unitsinc · 06/23/09, 8:33 PM

Originally Posted by Sharandris

Haste Potions
They are almost a must-have for hardmodes. Same as with Heroism/Bloodlust, I'm not sure whether they improve anything besides our white damage. If so, clever usage of the potions should be suggested together with Berserk.

Actually, you wouldn't want to use Berserk during a haste pot/bloodlust/other haste effects. Faster white attacks mean more chance of proccing OoC and getting a free attack, essentially not fully using Berserk. Now....using a haste pot during a trinket proc would be ideal.

Mat_t · 06/23/09, 8:43 PM

Originally Posted by nse360

I'm really, REALLY hoping these are either incorrect or not final as they're both a downgrade from the 2pc/4pc of Tier 8. /pray to Kitty gods for better bonuses.

Thinking about how often Rake is used in comparison to Savage roar and the kind of freedom +3 seconds on rake is in a feral cycle im quite shocked hearing this after you've taken a quick glance at it

◊ Neone · 06/23/09, 9:03 PM

Originally Posted by Mat_t

Thinking about how often Rake is used in comparison to Savage roar and the kind of freedom +3 seconds on rake is in a feral cycle im quite shocked hearing this after you've taken a quick glance at it

Yeah, I can't see how 2pcT8/2pcT9 is anything but good. More rake uptime to get more T8 clearcasting... seems like huge win.

(which is good news since I only have to collect 2 offset pieces after I get my new tanking gear)

dewzer · 06/23/09, 9:44 PM

it seems the 2pc t9 has a chance at being better then 4pc t8, but hard to say until someone gets some hard facts about the rest of the stats

Mat_t · 06/23/09, 10:16 PM

Thinking that most druids(me included)are still using SR at 3-5 cp and clipping it anywhere from 1-7 seconds thats an SR every 25~40 seconds and it costs 25 energy.

Rake is 35 energy, clipping is always bad and avoided, its used every ~9.5 seconds though sometimes there will be longer gaps that cant be avoided because of dry times with crits and ooc procs and thats where i sort of fail, my rake uptime is always *alot* lower than my rip.

All of that is pretty obvious stuff, I'd like someone to run some sort of math/ proper theorycraft on this, i suck at it :p
Would be suprised that the energy gain from 4pc t8 is more than 2pc t9 though.

Wickit · 06/23/09, 11:38 PM

Personally I use SR at 1-2CP with the 4-piece T8 bonus and try to only clip it at 1-5 seconds (depending on energy situation). So I really like my 4P bonus and usually my Rip and Rake uptimes are within 1 or 2% of each other. I can see the benefit of an extra 3 seconds on Rake though. Once we see the stats of the new tier pieces I hope to see some testing with 2+2 comapred to 4 T8. Especially if the new T9 has some rearranged stats compared to T8 (i.e. ArPen rating on T9 where T8 had hit, crit or expertise)

Propel · 06/24/09, 12:06 AM

I'm sure this is an oversight, but the 2nd part of that doesn't specify "While in Cat Form".

Supah · 06/24/09, 3:15 AM

Originally Posted by Propel

I'm sure this is an oversight, but the 2nd part of that doesn't specify "While in Cat Form".

Well the fact that it says "Shred" on the idol assumes it'll work in cat form...

Tehfuzz · 06/24/09, 3:35 AM

Originally Posted by Supah

Well the fact that it says "Shred" on the idol assumes it'll work in cat form...

Pretty sure he was referring to the fact that Mangle may also provide the 200agil in Bear Form. Not likely, hence the oversight.

Dyvozvir · 06/24/09, 3:46 AM

If there will be lot of aoe trash/boss adds its better keep up with 4t8, since +8 sec to SR while spaming swipe = awesome.

if we loose 4t8, FB will be used not so often, 5% crit bonus to it seems like a joke.

So 2t8 + 2t9 sounds like a wise choice ... for now.

nightcrowler · 06/24/09, 5:37 AM

I'm actually working on the addon so I'll wait a week or two before updating the simulator to patch 3.2.
I still like to add some though about 3.2 in this post.

First of all reading mmo-champion you can see that the ability nerf is actually only on our base damage and it's not that big as previously said.
The biggest things that comes to my eyes is the greater i-Level gap.
Naxx gear was level: 200-213-226
Ulduar gear was level: 219 (+19) -226 (+13) -239 (+13)
Colosseum gear is level: 232 (+13) -245 (+19) -258 (+19)

Also colosseum has 3 level of tier (not 2 like the previous raid tiers) this mean that you'll be able to make a 19 iLevel jump going from T8.25 to T9.25-hard. Said that it seems reasonable that the previous raid tiers now drom conquest emblems because with such a gear gap we will probably see very gear dependent fights, on another note all the discussion about 2-4T8 > 2-4T9 is wiped away, 26 iLevel will be such a big improvement to remove every kind of discussion about set-bonuses.

Tossing some ideas out of my mind:
2T9 seems pretty good
4T9 doesn't seems so and we will probably see something like in Naxx or Karazhan with 2 pieces of tier + off-set items.

The change to rake is a long waited one, in T9 gear level without that bonus you'll probably no longer use rake so it's a simple "fix" to let it be stil used.
We will probably see also an increase in value for hit/expertise: the average dps will be higher (and hit scales with it) and we will not have 4-rip neither 8-SR bonus so our cycle will be tighter than ever.

As for bear sets: 4T9 is pretty amazing, but looking at other tanking class I dare see a big problem and a source of unbalance. All the other 3 classes have for 4t9 bonus a 20 second decrease on their 1 min cd, we have a 10% more powerful one. Actually wich one is better highly depend on the fight, for fights were you need to use a cd every 1 min, our will be better, if they make fights were you need to use it more often their will be better. In both case will be: or druids or others from a min max PoV, I'd prefer a better omogeneization of it. 2T9 seems strange, 2 sec less on growl, basically every class have the same bonus (exception made for warrior who have an intervene reduction) but I don't get it. First of all because last time I checked there is a 15 sec immunity from taunt so taunt cd is already more than enough, second because if a fight requires a lesser time on taunt it means that it's impossible to do without that set-bonus, so I'm a little suspicious about it, we can see Blizz route only when the new bosses will come out.

Vaccine · 06/24/09, 6:07 AM

You also have to remember there is a 3rd tier of Tier set this time, the Heroic ones at iLvl 258. That is a pretty hefty upgrade from the 226 of T8, even if the set bonus is worse the stat gain plus rip/fb buff might come out ahead.

The full 5/5 comparison is:

Agi	168
Stam	157
AP	180
Haste	85
ArP	-25
Crit	103
Hit	105
Expertise	38

If we just compare the stat gain/loss from the Shoulders and Gloves which are the two weakest slots:

Agi	50
Stam	61
AP	60
Haste	43
ArP	25
Crit	14
Hit	68
Expertise	-48

That is a pretty hefty amount of raw stat you're giving up to keep hold of the 2 piece T8.

fr0d0b0ls0n · 06/24/09, 8:33 AM

4T9 is "Increases the damage reduction granted by Barkskin by 10% and increases the critical strike chance of Rip and Ferocious Bite by 5%."

Why you only seem to talk about the FB chance to crit? I don't know if the extra crit on Rip will be enough to make it a good set bonus tought.

PS: Doing a rough estimation based on reports, seems a 30-40 dps with an high Rip uptime. :s

Melthu · 06/24/09, 8:42 AM

Some very quick napkin math:

2T8 - At 10,000 AP, 55% crit chance and 750 armor pen (average assuming Grim Toll / Mjolnir Runestone and an armor pen focus) and assuming you spend the proc on a fully buffed Shred, you get

$\left(\left(10,000 / 14 + 54.7\right) * 2.25 + 742.5\right) * 1.1(Naturalist) * 1.2(RnT) * 1.3(Mangle) * 1.33(Savage Roar) * 0.82(armor) * 1.6963(crit) / 60 = 130.83 dps$

4T9 - Again, with 10,000 AP and assuming 90% uptime you get 27 ticks per minute. An extra 5% will crit, or 1.35 extra crits each minute.

$\left(10,000 * 0.05 + 534\right) * 1.1(Naturalist) * 1.3(Mangle) * 1.33(Savage Roar) * 1.266(crit) * 1.35(procs per minute) / 60 = 56 dps$

While each is slightly undervalued (2T8 also generate combo points and 4T9 affects FB) 2T8 is the clear winner as far as bonuses go.

Originally Posted by nightcrowler

As for bear sets: 4T9 is pretty amazing, but looking at other tanking class I dare see a big problem and a source of unbalance. All the other 3 classes have for 4t9 bonus a 20 second decrease on their 1 min cd, we have a 10% more powerful one. Actually wich one is better highly depend on the fight, for fights were you need to use a cd every 1 min, our will be better, if they make fights were you need to use it more often their will be better. In both case will be: or druids or others from a min max PoV, I'd prefer a better omogeneization of it. 2T9 seems strange, 2 sec less on growl, basically every class have the same bonus (exception made for warrior who have an intervene reduction) but I don't get it. First of all because last time I checked there is a 15 sec immunity from taunt so taunt cd is already more than enough, second because if a fight requires a lesser time on taunt it means that it's impossible to do without that set-bonus, so I'm a little suspicious about it, we can see Blizz route only when the new bosses will come out.

The paladin 4p is 30 seconds off of a 3 minute cooldown and the DK 4p is 20 seconds off a 2 minute cooldown. The warrior 4p is the oddity of the 3, reducing a 1 minute cooldown by 20 seconds, and that may very well have to do with the weakness of block in general. Our tanking 4p appears to be the clear winner of the group. I'm also pretty happy with the 2p bonus. A 25% reduction in Growl's cooldown would be very handy for tanking things like Thorim's arena. Also, I don't believe a mob becomes taunt immune until after it's been taunted 3 times in a 15 second window, just like other CC's with diminishing returns.