About how to put stats into the simulator:

the simulator already sum the talents/forms/buff bonuses. You need to put in only the gear stats as they are on gear (there is no easy way to put them looking at rawr directly you should manually sum up all the gear stats). The only things to do carefully is to sum up ap on weapon to feral attack power instead of ap.


New updated simulator: http://feralbynight.googlecode.com/f...3_2_b_beta.cpp

Bear update (Coliseum BiS Gear)

Stats	Tank Points	STAM-EQ	DPS	APEQ DPS	TPS	APEQ TPS	NIGHT's CHOCE
AP	19,1	7,8	0,40	10,0	0,80	10,0	12,7
Feral AP	22,9	9,4	0,48	12,0	0,96	12,0	15,2
Agility	328,2	134,4	0,41	10,1	0,80	10,0	139,2
Strengh	45,5	18,6	0,95	23,8	1,90	23,8	30,2
Crit	11,3	4,6	0,65	16,2	1,27	15,9	12,3
Haste	1,9	0,8	1,10	27,5	2,48	31,0	15,8
Hit	7,3	3,0	1,13	28,3	2,61	32,7	18,8
Expertise	232,4	95,1	1,31	32,7	3,02	37,8	113,4
Armor Pen	0,0	0,0	1,01	25,3	2,21	27,6	13,4
Defense	239,8	98,2	0,00	0,0	0,00	0,0	98,2
Dodge	253,2	103,7	0,00	0,0	0,00	0,0	103,7
Armor	142,0	58,1	0,00	0,0	0,00	0,0	58,1
Bonus Armor	20,2	8,3	0,00	0,0	0,00	0,0	8,3
Stamina	244,3	100,0	0,00	0,0	0,00	0,0	100,0
Health	17,8	7,3	0,00	0,0	0,00	0,0	7,3

Lether Armor Gear ranking

Gadgets Armor Gear ranking

Weapon ranking

Slot	Item	Enchant & Profession
Back	Pride of the Demon Lord	+22 agi
Chest	Malfurion’s Rainment of Triumph	+10 all stats
Feet	Treads of the Icewalker	+tuskkar vitality
Ring 1	Clutch of Fortification	-
Head	Malfurion's Headguard of Triumph	37 stam, 20 def
Legs: Malfurion's Legguards of Triumph	55 stam, 22 agi
Hands	Malfurion's Handgrips of Triumph	+20 agi, Extra Socket 1x51 stam
Neck	The Arbiter's Muse	-
Shoulders	Shoulderpads of the Intruder	30 stam, 15 res
Trinket 1	Juggernaut's Vitality	-
Trinket 2	Glyph of Indomitability	-
Weapon	Twin’s Pact	Mongoose
Waist	Soul-Devouring Cinch	Eternal belt bucket 1x51 stam
Ring 2	Fate's Clutch	-
Wrist	Solar Bindings	40 stam Extra socket+ 51stam
Idol	Idol of mutilation	-
Food+Flask	Flask of StoneBlood + agi food

Profession: JC+Blacksmith
Gemming: 30 stamina into blue socket, 10 agi + 15 stam into red socket, 10 def + 15 stam into yellow socket.

Simulation
Aggressive Stats after all the buffs (full stacked raid + Bloodlust used 1 time in a 5 min fight)
_______________________

Bear (crit% vs. a boss (-4.8% added)): 47.8492%
Expertise: 49
Hit: 8.69168%
Armor Penetration: 13.1534%
Haste (from equipment): 9.59439%
+weapon damage: 0
Shield value = 2245


Boss base Armor (before penetration and debuff): 10643
Boss modified Armor (after penetration and debuff): 7066.17
Boss Damage Reduction (after debuff and penetration): 31.6888%
Weapon Speed Reduction % (Total without Bloodlust): 26%
Missed % (Total): 0%
Dodged %: 0%
Not normalized attacks parried by the boss: 1.74092%
_____________________________________


DPS: 4422.19 +/- 0.291105, (Min-Max variance: -39.6322%, Lower dps sample: 6600, Upper dps sample: 4847.39) ,
TPS: 9563.84


**************************************

White bear: 0, Yellow bear: 4422.19
White bear: 0%
Mangle bear: 10.0231%, Average Damage: 3294.12,
Maul: 64.742%, Average Damage: 5178.42,
Lacerate: 15.4883%, Average Damage: 6674.66 (for each application)
Swipe: 4.85386% Average Damage: 714.264,
Feral Fairie Fire: 4.89271% Average Damage: 1785.31
**************************************


Boss Stats
Base swing (pre thunder-clap): 1.7 sec
Base damage (pre demoralizing shouts, improved): 70k

Boss crit: 0%, Boss hit: 38.0553%, Boss miss: 61.9447%, Boss white dps: 2154.86, Boss average weapon speed: 2.02048 sec., Boss average parried attacks x sec: 1.93254%, Average Boss White DPS increase due to parry: 0.957017%
Chance to die: 0.0001% without heals in: 5 seconds

_____________________________________

Defensive Stats after the buffs (vs. a raid boss, full stacked raid + Devotion Aura)
_______________________

Bear armor (before inspiration): 35575
Physical Damage Reduction Bear (before inspiration): 72.8028%
Defense: 456
Chance to be critical hit: 0%
Dodge (bear): 50.747%
Miss: 10.8144%
Total Avoidance (bear): 61.5614%
Total HP (bear): 56508
Shielded hits: 92.7412%
Inspiration uptime: 99.5241%
Tank Points (hp equivalent with 0% avoidance, 0% Damage Reduction and without parry from the boss) (bear): 878049 +/- 298.337
_____________________________________

I did check the profession threads and have a firm grasp of the changes they list(some are not updated). I posted here because I thought it relevant given my uncertainty in valuing the changes correctly for ferals.

On those, planning equip. It should be noted that the T9 4 pierce bonus is rather bad. Rawr suggests using 2 pierces, as well as napkin math: 5% crit on Rip and Ferocious Bite. Assume Rip to be 15-20% of your total damage and FB 5-10%, that would at best be 30% of your damage: 5 * 0.3 = 1.5% damage increase, while on worst case only 1% damage increase. Further it only increases your damage on single target, not while target switching (yogg saron, hodir come to mind) using mangle, shred, swipe and sr mostly. This is really a bad bonus and there is better T9.5 gear to set it off (like those nice legs Legwraps of the Broken Beast - Items - Sigrie or this awsome chest Vest of Calamitous Fate - Items - Sigrie or these gloves [Sunreaver Assassin's Gloves].

Also I noticed Rawr suggesting Agi+Haste orange gems over Agi+Crit when equipping top TotC-25-Hard gear and going for Runestone ArPen.

Don't forget that engineering bombs are now all off of the GCD, and do not, on use, cause a form cancel, so this is free damage every 60 seconds. If you have goblin engineering spec, you'll have access to the Global Thermal Sapper Charge, which is a tiny boost over just using saronite bombs.

[Global Thermal Sapper Charge] does 2188 to 2812 damage in large AoE radius centered on the caster
[Saronite Bomb] do 1150 to 1500 damage, but uses a large AoE targeting reticle.

Feeble maths:

GTSC = 2500 average damage / 60 seconds = 42 dps
Saronite Bombs = 1325 average damage / 60 seconds = 22 dps

GTSCs can be used every 5 minutes and triggers the Saronite Bomb's CD.
Saronite Bombs have a 1 minute CD.

So, AVG(42 + 22 + 22 + 22 + 22 dps) = 26 dps on a single target over the course of a boss fight. Bombs can crit also, so it's actually a little more.

You fixed this? I have the same problem, an infinite number of linker errors like:

[Linker error] undefined reference to `std::string::size() const'
[Linker error] undefined reference to `std::string::operator[](unsigned int) const'
[Linker error] undefined reference to `__gxx_personality_sj0'

And I can't use that executable version a couple pages ago, because it seems to ignore my stats and I always get the same dps with my stats or putting everything to 1. Any help?

Edited: Fixed. The program tought it was C.

Are T9 bonuses even in Rawr? I don't see them in the buffs section where the other setbonuses are.

A couple questions to Nightcrowler. I tryed to search the answer in this thread but couldn't find a definite answer.

When entering stats, what we need to take in account?

-Gear and gems of course
-Base racial stats?
-Enchants?
-Flask and Food?

What means the "//-12;-150" comment near to the haste stat? We need to do that operation to our calculated haste? Why?

And I suposse we need to never introduce a hit over 263 or an Arp over 1232 as the caps doesn't seem to be coded.

I have done an extensive test of various kind of gears the last few hours, but with that many doubts I can conclude anything. Seems that hard cap is perfectly obtainable with BS/JC and with Berserking as enchant does the maximum dps, but I'll retest when I'm totally sure about the stats...

Head Stormrage's Headguard of Triumph (Heroic)
Neck Collar of Ceaseless Torment (Heroic)
Shoulders Stormrage's Shoulderpads of Triumph (Heroic)
Back Sylvana's Cunning
Chest Armor of Shifting Shadows (Heroic)
Bracer Bracers of Swift Death
Gloves Gloves of the Silver Assassin (Heroic)
Waist Belt of the Merciless Killer (Heroic)
Legs Legguards of Cunning Deception
Boots Icewalker Treads (Heroic)
Finger1 Planestalker Band (Heroic)
Finger2 Dexterous Brightstone Ring
Trinket1 Death's Choice (Heroic)
Trinket2 Banner of Victory
Weapon Lupine Longstaff (Heroic)
Ranged Idol of Mutilation

Gems: 10 stats, 3 Dragon's Eye (1 of Agility or you pass the cap), 20 Arp the rest. 2 extra sockets from BS.
Enchants: as usual, Berserking on weapon, 16 agi on boots

180 AP Flask, 40 Arp Food

Stats I introduced: 1697 AGI, 1229 Armor Penetration, 106 STR, 2432 AP, 609 Crit, 354 Haste, 263 Hit, 86 Expertise, 3380 Feral AP


DPS: 10658.5 +/- 1.39775, (Min-Max variance: 53.0058%, Lower dps sample: 6600, Upper dps sample: 12249.6) , Cat: 100%, Bear: 0%, TPS: 7567.55

White cat: 3932.88, Yellow cat: 6725.63
White: 36.899% (SR: 0%)
Mangle: 0%, Avg dmg: -1.#IND, #/cycle: 0), Shred: 34.0496%, Avg dmg: 13096.4, #/cycle: 7.61431), RIP: 15.0568%, Avg dmg: 47268.6, #/cycle: 0.93289)
Rake: 7.35068%, Avg dmg: 12467, #/cycle: 1.72677), Ferocious Bite: 6.64393%, Avg dmg: 24297.2, #/cycle: 0.800825, Average Energy Usage: 42)
Savage Roar uptime: 98.2264%

That's only true if you have 0% crit chance. It's even worser with higher crit chance.

Without crit damage modifiers:
100 average dmg with 0% crit -> 105 average dmg with 5% crit (105/100 = 1.05 = 5% dmg gain)
195 (= 0.05 + 0.95 * 2) average dmg with 95% crit -> 200 average dmg with 100% crit (200/195 = 1.0256 = 2.56% dmg gain)

Let's use some real numbers fro FB& Rip and count with crit damage modifiers.

Assuming:
* 60% crit chance
* rip dealing 20.3% of total damage and FB dealing 7.6% of total damage (Highest feral dps on AoI 25 HM)
* hit and exp capped
* predatory instincts for 10% increased crit damage
* 5/5 Rend and Tear for +25% FB crit chance
* +3% crit dmg meta:

Rip: 20.3% / (0.40 + 0.6 * 2 * 1.1 * 1.03) * (0.35 + 0.65 * 2 * 1.1 * 1.03) = 25% / (0.4 + 0.6 * 2.266) * (0.35 + 0.65 * 2.26) = 25% / 1.7596 * 1.8229 = 21.0303%
FB: 7.6% / (0.15 + 0.85 * 2 * 1.1 * 1.03) * (0.1 + 0.9 * 2 * 1.1 * 1.03) = 7.6% / 2.0761 * 2.1394 = 7.8317%

That's only 0.7303% + 0.2317% = 0.962% more total damage. That druid had 8528 dps, with 4T9 bonus he would have gained 8528 * 0.00962 = ~82 dps.

Night, you have Cloaks in a wrong category (gadgets instead of leather). Armor on cloaks (base armor, not the additional armor) is still multiplied by bearform armor bonus. Gadgets category should therfore only contain finger, neck & trinket slots. On top of that, WowheadArmor is actually ItemBaseArmor + ItemAdditionalArmor while you expect WowheadArmor to be only BaseArmor. To correct that you need to assign to WowheadAdditionlArmor the weight of AdditionalArmorWeight - BaseArmorWeight, which is 8.3 - 58.1= -49.8 in this case.

Corrected links are:

Leather armor & cloaks ranking

Jewelery ranking


It slightly changes the position of few Naxxramas cloaks that have additional armor on them.

Wasn't it debated recently in the druid tanking thread that expertise isn't as valuable as commonly thought? Of all encounters in Ulduar, the only place where parry-haste will make a big difference is Hodir and Thorim. The other bosses don't parry haste, don't parry, or don't hit hard enough for it to matter.

Should the weighting on expertise be tuned down?

And does anyone know the parry-haste characteristics of the bosses in ToC?

Yes, it was debated and it is really more a matter of personal preference, which rather than just saying its a BiS list it should probably come with the disclaimer stating that he is focusing on expertise. Frankly the parry haste possibility has not seemed to be much of a problem as of yet in wrath. So mostly it would be for the threat then which on a tank I think of as kind of like hit, after a certain point it is a waste to get anymore, though that point of sufficient threat is fuzzy and largely based on your dps tps numbers.

Overall though maybe there should be a few BiS lists made for bears, a stamina set, an avoidance set, and a threat set.

What do you guys think about Charge of the Eredar / Charge of the Demon Lord versus Collar of Ceaseless Torment? Ive been reading through this thread and I'd like to see just one thing definitively from anyone..

1. Has anyone decided if ArP hardcap is better than Arp/Agi? What is the break point if hardcap is better, if there is one?

ArP hardcap is better than Arp/Agi in every simulation I did, around 250 dps better. I'm right now searching for the *ArP Cap* where Banner of Victory > Mjolnir Runestone, until that point will be better to stay at ArP soft cap with extra gems on Agility (but not by much dps anyway).

About the neck, at least if you are BS/JC (the only ones that can get hard cap without Executioner) you'll want the Collar of Ceaseless Torment. I don't know about the other professions, but will be a tight fight.

Edit: After 10 simulations with FbN, I estimated that the ArP cap where you want to change your Mjolnir + Berserk Enchant to Banner of Victory + Executioner Enchant is ~875 ArP with food (~959 with food and the Banner equipped).

Edit2:

This is the best gear configuration I found until now. Only if you are BS/JC.


Stormrage's Headguard of Triumph (Heroic)
Collar of Ceaseless Torment (Heroic)
Stormrage's Shoulderpads of Triumph (Heroic)
Sylvana's Cunning
Knightbane Carapace
Bracers of Swift Death
Gloves of the Silver Assassin (Heroic)
Belt of the Merciless Killer (Heroic)
Legguards of Cunning Deception
Icewalker Treads (Heroic)
Planestalker Band (Heroic)
Dexterous Brightstone Ring
Death's Choice (Heroic)
Comet's Trail
Lupine Longstaff (Heroic)
Idol of Mutilation

10 stats on Helm, 3x34 Arp, 19x20 Arp.

Enchant on weapon: Berserk (Mongoose gives me 5 dps less)

Stats: 1655 AGI | 106 STR| 2691 AP | 516 Crit | 1186 ArP (46 to cap) | 354 Haste | 263* Hit | 86 Expertise | If someone wanna try. I'll like to have the stats of someone else BiS for comparison.

DPS: 10612.1 +/- 1.3882, (Min-Max variance: 51.0358%, Lower dps sample: 6600, Upper dps sample: 12013.1) , Cat: 100%, Bear: 0%, TPS: 7530.63

**************************************
CAT

White cat: 4007.07, Yellow cat: 6599.44
White: 37.7793% (SR: 0%)
Mangle: 0%, Avg dmg: -1.#IND, #/cycle: 0), Shred: 32.5299%, Avg dmg: 12539.4, #/cycle: 7.54632), RIP: 14.8395%, Avg dmg: 46232, #/cycle: 0.933701)
Rake: 8.36129%, Avg dmg: 12453.3, #/cycle: 1.95307), Ferocious Bite: 6.48992%, Avg dmg: 23441.1, #/cycle: 0.805363, Average Energy Usage: 42)
Savage Roar uptime: 98.2931%

I know it was asked a while back, but I don't think it was ever answered:

What sort of debuff uptimes are generated with FBN? How many bites per minute? I don't use it myself (except indirectly through this great thread) so I'm trying to get a handle on what it thinks is the ideal damage profile so that I can better understand the gear weights it generates.

EDIT: In particular, I know that FbN assumes 100% mangle and bleed uptime. I'd still like to know rip/rake uptime, and I'd really, really like to know if there's a sim for when you're providing your own mangles. I assume that if you're doing your own mangles, AGI would be weighed heavier, for example.

Thanks!

This has been explained in more detail by Nightcrowler in this thread, but it boils down to his rip/rake uptimes are in the low 90s, SR in the high 90s and mangle basically 100%.

Is that really better than using the Mask of Lethal Intent, the Band of Callous Aggression, and the Soul Devouring Cinch? These swaps put you at 1227 armor penetration and 240 hit rating.

Using Nightcrowlers BiS list and one question.

How is cower working? i mean is it count like percentage or something like that? I dont usually like use berserk cuz i always pull when berserking.


Slot Item
Back [Sylvanas' Cunning]
Chest [Vest of Shifting Shadows]
Feet [Icewalker Treads]
Ring 1 [Planestalker Band]
Head [Runetotem's Headguard of Triumph]
Legs [Legguards of Cunning Deception]
Hands [Sunreaver Assassin's Gloves]
Neck [Collar of Unending Torment]
Shoulders [Runetotem's Shoulderpads of Triumph]
Trinket 1 [Banner of Victory]
Trinket 2 [Death's Choice]
Weapon [Twin's Pact]
Waist [Belt of the Pitiless Killer]
Ring 2 [Band of Callous Aggression]
Wrist [Bracers of Swift Death]

Are you refering to the one simmed at 10612 dps if you only have say JCing? I'm having a bit of trouble trying to figure out what you meant.

That's odd. I expected rake to become a bad choice at that armor penetration level. Originally the news was that both Rawr and FBN projected dropping rake in this tier. That's why I looked at only 1 piece of T9.

The gear setup I simulated at 10612 dps with BS/JC is the BiS if you are not BS/JC, but you do 10501 dps instead. The gear setup I simulated at 10692 dps with BS/JC only does ~10483 dps if you don't have that proffesions (I used skinning + leatherworking, but any proffesions without bonus to ArP will be similar).

The only change is the chest+pants combo:

Non BS/JC: Knightbane Carapace + Legguards of Cunning Deception
BS/JC: Armor of Shifting Shadows (Heroic) + Leggings of the Broken Beast (Heroic)

Take it with a grain of salt until Nightcrowler can do his own simulations (he knows better the code, and maybe I did something wrong).

@fr0d0b0ls0n:

When entering stats, what we need to take in account?
Gear, gems, enchants, Flask, Food. You shouldn't enter forms, class and racial bonuses but you should enter base agility and strenght.

What means the "//-12;-150" comment near to the haste stat? We need to do that operation to our calculated haste? Why?
This is a memo for me and should change based on your haste. Basically the problem is that the simulator has a fixed time step of 0.01 seconds so every haste value that change weapon speed (after other buffs like auras and windfury) for less than 1% doesn't change the results. To have an appropriate extimation I usually find the lower boundary value that doesn't change the resulting weapon speed and then find a similar value behind.

And I suposse we need to never introduce a hit over 263 or an Arp over 1232 as the caps doesn't seem to be coded.
No, you can introduce every overcap value. The limit is coded.

@Gurrshael
Thank you, I'll change the link as soon as possible.

@Deathwing/Lathas
Actually I've declared the boss stats (1.7 weapon speed, 70k damage pre-mitigation, parry haste enabled). 70k damage is not that high for Ulduar-Coliseum HM, if you don't want to take into account parry-haste you can simply use hit-value for expertise, actually the ranking for BiS gear doesn't change a lot and following the bear-tanking thread I didn't found any real reason to down-rank expertise many of the information are anedoctical, I'll try to find a way to really see boss parry-haste in-game. Said that expertise is not "over-budgeted" because of "parry-haste lethality" the value is based on TTL increase due to parry-haste avoidance and is not buffed in any way. Lowering by 1% your expertise doesn't kill you, but the same is true with agility, dodge, health, and so on.
I'll try to make different gear sets link but it's not that hard the value (TTL/TPS/DPS, etc..) are all presents into the table.

@Pants:
Into the simulator you can switch on/off all the buff/debuff (including mangle). For the pubblished simulation I assume "every buff/debuff on" (including mangle). You can see bite x cycle in every simulation report and you can also see cycle time so you only need to do 60/cycle time = cycle x minute and then bite x cycle multiplied cycle x minute to find out bite x minute. As for stats allocation the difference is minimal if you keep your own mangle (the bleed importance slightly increase but the cp generation importance slightly decrease because mangle consume less energy than shred so the two things average out to zero).

@The Grog:
rake is left behind at t9 level without 2t9, but with 2 t9 the 3 more seconds on rake makes up for the difference.

EDIT (TO DO):
I'll try to update cat bis gear with the latest pubblished simulations
I must change bear code to take care of inspiration change (from 25% armor to 10% dmg reduction), but it shouldn't change a lot.
I must add boss specific buff/debuff for Coliseum boss to the addon.
I'll try to do that as soon as possible.

Would it be possible to sim with just JC + enchanting/leatherworking? Most ferals I have found are usually one of these 2 combos as BS doesn't do much for ferals outside of the profession bonus.