Edit: Sorry, I reverted into softcap reasoning. (The thing about the Executioner proc is that, if you have an ArP trinket, a lot of it gets wasted because the procs overlap and put you well over the cap. Of course, that this is a non-issue for druids who've already replaced their Grim Toll or Runestone, or never had one.)

As we were talking about hardcapping without a trinket - I stand corrected. I guess it is worth consideration in a trinketless set if one is stacking ArP. Obviously, Berserking is still better in an agi-gemmed set.

Has anyone started messing around with the numbers with the ArP nerf?

Edit: Just to clarify, I mean like a new BiS, weightings on stats since I think a lot of things will be affected, like crit probably higher than haste, probably soft cap with runestone instead of trying to reach near the hardcap, etc.

Supahflii has posted a page ago a BiS that is probably the new BiS (or changing legs/chest to the non-tier heroic ones as getting 4 Heroic Tier isn't easy). Mjolnir + Softcap is the new BiS for sure (735 Arp I think).

That's the guide i'm following for gear right now, until Nightcrowler post his new BiS, but I'm sure it will be similar.

I don't have much i245 gear. Should i not be gemming for ArP gems after the 3.2.2 patch? currently at 523 ArP passive + grim.

In my earlier post, I was actually referring to 3.2.2 values. I had the same result in the current version of Rawr regarding Agi at my current level of gear (Grim Toll + 528 ArP before food). Using Simcraft, however, ArP still had the highest relative stat value in my current gear with the patch=3.2.2 option set.

Edit: Scale factors from 100,000 simulations in my current gear.

Stat	Live	3.2.2
Str	1.48	1.45
Agi	1.53	1.50
AP	0.63	0.61
Exp	1.36	1.32
ArPen	1.60	1.66
Hit	1.31	1.28
Crit	1.18	1.15
Haste	1.18	1.14

The relative value of ArP actually goes up with the patch, because of the fact that I'm close to my softcap.

As an aside, over 100,000 simulations, the ArP nerf translated into about a 2% DPS loss for me, by itself with no other changes to my character. I think that demonstrates why it's necessary, if changing its value from 125% to 110% or whatever can have such a big impact on a character's DPS.

You don't have to go straight for the soft cap in order to gem ArP, as long as you'd be around 35-40% you can work your way up to 50%. You don't need to be in 245 gear to get that, even after the patch. It should be possible with Ulduar gear/ToC 10 man. The trinket from Heroic ToC helps as well.

There are several screenshots and comments that indicate this is false for the time being. Their spell IDs are unique, and do not share iCDs.


Death's Choice

For reference.

I would not count on this same-item stacking lasting in to 3.2.2, though we have not seen an official comment on the change.

Hmmm, I just changed the code in my version of the sim a little bit (changed the ArP modifier to 1.1 instead of 1.25 for 3.2.2 change). I also changed my gearing to ArP soft cap + mjolnir, and I got a sim DPS of 9161. That seems quite low to me. Do I need to change anything else to increase the cap from 1232 to 1400 or anything? Or is that just how the nerf has effected us?

EDIT: Did some gear / gem shuffling and managed to up it to 9354.82, but I doubt I can get it much higher then that (didn't use the i272 cloak).

Post 3.2.2 is there any consensus as to what the best gemming/gearing forcus will be for those of us without an APen trinket (unfortunatly, as a tank I'm not in a position to roll on one of them anytime soon)?

It will still be ArP, provided you can get past the initial threshold where it edges out over agi. I think the general consensus was around 300 before 3.2.2 so I guess about 400 should suffice when the patch hits. I mean you can just increase 300 by 12% but as a rule of thumb I think you can just say that if you can get that much ArP from gear then it will still be the best way to gem for you.

I am relatively new to the forums: could someone please explain why getting 2 extra gem slots from BS is better than the 130 ap bracer lining from LW?

Being able to gain 40 armor pen instead of AP is a fairly large win due to how armor pen scales (nonlinearly) and due to how bad ferals scale with AP in general. That's the real reason. There are plenty of reasons not to do so, mind you, but from a min-max perspective it's a bigger gain (by about 60 DPS).

Thank you!

Taken from wowhead


By Nickrodude 11 hr 19 min ago (Patch 3.2.0)
It is confirmed that it can stack with the heroic version of itself.

Screenshot and armory link for proof.

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/9683/dualproc.jpg
The World of Warcraft Armory


Anyone ran the numbers on this yet?

With Rawr, promediating the 245 trinket (doesnt seem to work with 2 procs), Mjolnir+soft cap is still ~100 dps better than double Coliseum Trinkets with full ArP gems.

I haven't tryed on Fbn, I'm waiting for a new version of the simulator.

Concerning this point, I've run simulations using FbN 3.2 at my gear level, which is mainly what one can get running 10-mans, and not even top at that (no ArP proc trinket yet). Since most of the results in the discussion here are relevant to BiS or, in any case, 25-man gear, maybe it is interesting for some people.

The results I got were "DPS: 5119.23 +/- 0.798889" using the Berserking enchant and "DPS: 5102.32 +/- 0.79617" using the Executioner enchant. Granted, the difference is very small, but still Berserking edges ahead. I'm not too well versed in the overall mechanics, but it could be that this changes at higher-level gear due to the non-linear scaling of ArP. I did not assume a Mangle-bot in the fight, nor that the target is bleeding, since this is my usual raid setup. Buffs fell under the same restrictions too.

The gear I use at the time of writing can be found in this Wowhead list. Gems are all ArP epic, except one Nightmare Tear for the Relentless Earthsiege Diamond bonus activation. Enchants on gloves and boots are Agi, not sure if these are the standard ones used.
The actual numbers input in FbN are Agi:1372 (including a +200 for the Idol of Mutilation simulation), ArP:689 (including food), AP:1767, Crit:445 and the rest as can be found in the Wowhead link.

I did the test above on Rawr(last version, that uses the old "actual" arpen value), with a mangle bot:

Using BS/JC mjolnir+soft cap and got 10504 dps.

Then I did change Deaths Choice 245 to use Greatness Proc(highest Stat) with a 450 value, so rawr would be able to "stack" both. With 2 death choices and full arp gemming+executioner (962 arpen total) I got a 10659 dps result.

I didn't test with the new Arpen values since I don't have the old version of rawr anymore, just thought I would bring some results here.

UPDATE:
Using Rawr 2.2.15 (3.2.2 arpen values),it gives me interesting results:
Double Death Choice + Arpen Gemming: 10334
Mjolnir + New Arpen Soft Cap (endend up with 742): 10332

For anyone that is waiting for an updated version of FBN for 3.2.2 I believe all that you need to change in the source code is on lines 4374 - 4377 . Just change the value from 1.25 to 1.10 .

I did the same as Negoveio, but I think I have another base BiS, and I'm not BS/JC.

For me Mjolnir + 734 ArP is 10599 DPS in Rawr 2.2.15.

Double Death's Verdict I couldn't get more than ~1556 DPS. But as I said I'm not BS/JC, probably for a BS/JC is better to go this way as you have 82 more ArP.

First of all thanks for the Info. Something I recognized while reading the last couple of pages is that no one seems to notice the last PTR build. Saying the Arpen nerf will only be 12% instead of 15%.

Armor Penetration Rating: The amount of armor penetration gained per point of this rating has been reduced by 12%.

Source: World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> PTR Patch 3.2.2 Notes - Updated 9.15.09 ;first reply by Zarhym.


But the main reason I post is because I got a question. My Guild is tanking the twins close to each other, so that BloodDks. Rouques, Shamans can use their multitarget abillity. I always try keeping rake up on both targets (still have 2t8 bonus) but I was thinking about using cleave after getting OoC procc is it possible to add in in the FBN Addon? Or is it unefficent?

Edit: Only using rake on other target, if I don`t have CPs on main target.

I believe nothing was changed. First, they buffed ArP by 25% (few months ago). GC then said 25% was a bit too much and that they are going to nerf it in 3.2.2 back by 15% (that is to 10% buff instead of 25%). 1.1 / 1.25 = 0.88 = 12% nerf. Yes, it's kinda confusing

Twins - is it really viable to use Rake on a Val'kyr with the same color? Have you done the math?
- you do more damage to the opposite color and less damage to the same color
- with that in mind, you are using Rake on the same color instead of Shred on the opposite color (yes, Rake's DPE is greater than Shred's DPE but is it really greater in this scenario?)
- you waste 1-2 CP and possibly 1-2 swings because you switch targets
- you gain a slightly higher OoC proc chance

Feel free to prove me wrong but I would be very surprised if it was a DPS increase.

Ok, should`ve thought about that myself with the 12%.

Didn`t know that that you do less damage to the same target, always thought only plus dmg to opposite. Thanks.