Thank you for looking into this.

If it helps, I use the default UI with the following mods I can think of off the top of my head:
DBM, Omen, Recount, Quartz, Outfitter, Decursive, Questhelper, Peggle (lol), Gatherer, Druidstats

I think that's about it. I know some of these aren't pertinent to my problem, but I figured it may help to know exactly whats going on.

When I installed FBN it moved the cast bars of my targets to the HUD, but my own still showed up in the default UI location. They were also in the default style, as opposed to the Quartz style.

I first noticed it on Yogg P1 when I didn't really notice the mobs casting Dark Volley. Usually all I do is try to interrupt the casts. Then on Emalon's lightning nova, I only noticed the smaller cast once due to it not being as blatantly obvious as I was used to.

I disabled FBN last night, and sure enough Quartz is still working properly with out FBN. I guess there may be some compatibility issues? I would like to use the cast bars of quartz with the timer watchers of FBN.

I hope this is something that can be fixed, and I guess I'm glad to have brought this to you attention.

first of all: sorry for my poor english

yesterday i downloaded the FBN addon and read a bit of this thread. so today i tested it (didn't have much time, only tried it ~10 fights with FBN und ~10 without on the dummy) and got disappointed very fast as my selfbuffed dummy dps dropped from about 4k to about 3.6k so i went back to the forums, read a bit of theorycraft, tried to not mess with using the right skills (as suggests come/change kinda fast sometimes, i messed it up a few times in the beginning - but that's just human, isn't it? - also i'm used too a different rotation -> see below).
so now i managed one try with a peak of 4.1k but again dropped down to 3.6k. So i tried my custom rotation with a few changes (letting rake drop, not clipping mangle so often, starting with mangle) et voila 4.0 - 4.1k without any problems (and this is WITHOUT using berserk - within the FBN rotation i used berserk).

this is what i do:
-SR at 4-5CP (if SR expires i use it at lower CP) - clipping it, but as late as possible (wait for 100energy or having something else to do after SR)
-RIP at 5CP
-mangle when mangle not active. no mangle at 5CP when rip will drop the next ~3 seconds (or should I?)
-shred alway on ooc/2T8 (sometimes i'm very bad at this, especially when i have to refresh mangle/rip/rake and i don't see the proc, because i'm focused on refreshing debuffs, or when ooc procs the moment i press mangle -.-)
-shred when enough energy/time
-FB when SR and rip up and both have uptime left 8+ seconds
-clip SR when SR an rip have about the same uptime left (when this happes it usually is 10-13 seconds rip 10-13seconds SR)
i also do some in-advance-thinking:
-when i see mangle/rip/rake drop soon at the same i save my energy to reapply those debuffs (FBN lets my use shred and i end up with rip/mangle/rake downtime) -> this way i have enough energy to reapply all the debuffs as fast as possible
-i use shred without ooc proc only when i see, that i won't need energy for mangle/rake/sr (e.g. i have 40 energy, so i could shred, but i see that mangle will expire in 2sec, so i wait 2 seconds)
-TF below 40 energy. love to use it after FB to avoid downtimes of rip
-rake only below 5CP and when rake is not up
-when it comes to refresh SR i almost always clip it. but when all my debuffs are up i wait untill SR drops/i am at 100 energy/i have to refresh mangle/rake after the GCD of SR

here is what i think lets me do less dps with FBN:
-FBN lets me refresh SR when SR uptime > rip uptime sometimes. I'd refresh rip frist and then refresh SR with low CP (but as much as i can produce until SR drops) and go on. I read the post where this was explained (low cp SR doesn't allow me to do a full cycle with FB), but if i refresh SR and let rip drop i lose rip uptime for an additional FB - doesn't make much sense to me as 6+ secs should equal one FB and i lose more than 6s uptime.
-FBN makes me shred A LOT. I don't shred, when i am at 42 energy and see that mangle or rake will drop bevor i can regen enough energy (so i'd shred at 70+ energy) to refresh mangle/rake.
-i don't shred for 5th CP when i see that mangle/rake will drop BEFORE rip/sr. in this case i'll wait for mangle/rake to drop to generate the 5th CP with mangle/rake and save the energy for shreds after the finisher.

the big difference i saw in recount was the percentage of damage done by shred, but i don't have the numbers here right now. i could try again when i come home and provide the data. should have been something about 25% with FBN (while rip was about the same %) and with "my" system shred is at 10-15% while rip is 30%+

so my question is:
is it just me being so bad at reacting on the suggestion made by FBN?
Or is the FBN rotation not optimal for my gear? (many pieces back from naxx as i don't have so much time to raid :/)

i'm also wondering if it was really worth it to regem arpen instead of agi at my gear level and if there's a point where arpen elixier gets better than ap flask.

PS: all this was tested while wearing shred idol. just wearing rip idol atm when you look at armory

EDIT: back from home i tried with rip idol an my priority system. got 4.2k dps.
tested again with rip and shred idol + FBN -> maximum of 4k with peaks of 4.2k - just peaks.
seems to me, that i get more dps with FBN in the beginning, but on longer fights dps gets lower - or i am just failing at using FBN and this complete post is a waste of time

Blindly following FBN will probably result in less DPS than paying attention to what's going on. Think of it like a cookbook - it's got the basic recipe, but tweak it to your own tastes and it'll turn out better.

That being said, Shred is often higher DPE than Rake depending on procs (as stated in this thread several times) so refreshing Rake instead of Shredding may be a DPS loss.

Using SR at 4-5 CPs is a waste of CPs. You should be refreshing at 2 CP for your gear level (3 if you get a non-crit followed by a crit, obviously).

There are several other flaws in your rotation, but if it's a net DPS gain for you stick with what works.

Nightcrowler, have you done any modeling/testing of the new Idol of Mutilation for cats? I have heard that the proc rate is 100% for mangle but not as much for shred, but assuming a 16 second window I would think the 200 agi would be up a fairly large amount of the time. If that's the case, I would think that it would become the best idol for cat dps out there.

Is that correct?

Does anyone else get a addon options formatting problem with the latest version? If I type /fbn any options page that is longer than the window list of tickboxes just continues outside the window instead of in scrolling section.

If that's not clear, I'll try to post a screenshot when I get home from work.

You can actually drag the option window larger so that all the options are on the background. Not sure why it isn't getting a scrollbar or auto sizing the background window.

FBN Addon
I've just uploaded the new version on curse, it will be avaiable in a few hours.

Change log. v.3.240
- Fixed "expected time to die" for bosses who can increase their health (fixed the cycle with them).
- Idol autodetection: idols are now self-detected by the addon (also in combat) and the cycle adjusted accordingly.
- Added bleeds monitor into the cycle, now the abilities are chocen also taking into account if there is any bleed active on the target (before it assumed that they are always up)
- Added a "bleed debuff" icon (the same icon as "maim") into CD monitor frame, it is where previously was OOC-proc. When OOC proc it shows on top of it (you can turn it off from the "show" options menu).
- Many addition in the cycle menu:
- You can now put a weight on RIP uptime (default is 1), with a weight of 4-5 you should be able to keep it always up.
- You can put a weight on rake/shred (default is 0.9) based on the relative DPE needed to avoid rake (for istance with 0.9 you avoid rake only if rake does less than 90% of shred DPE.
- you can put a weight on SR vs. other finishers (default is 1) to avoid clipping (0) or clip it more (high values).
- you can choce mangle-priority (default is 2). With 2 it try to keep it always up, with 1 it keep it up only if is efficient FOR YOU. With 0 it suggest mangle only if it's down (no energy pooling for mangling).
- You can choce energy pooling magnitude (default = 3). Basically it's the number of CP needed to avoid pooling (higher the number, higher the number of times you will pool energy).

The "time to die" fix should solve the "rake" problem, if it doesn't solve and you want more rake uptime just use the scroll added into cycle options. Actually I'm confident in my simulation and math, but it's not only a matter of math, is also a matter of wanted playstyle (and fight kind) so I've added to the cycle option a set of new options to "personalize" the cycle (rip uptime, rake, mangle priority and so on).
As always every feedback will be welcome.

Idol of Corruption is the best currently if you have to use mangle. I put it on for Yogg and Kologarn.


Arx: if there are no new ArP proc trinkets(and there shouldn't be, it's a stupid concept like having a trinket proc expertise or hit), then passive stacking is best. At around 1100 ArP, it will be the best stat EASILY. Comet's Trail + Dark Matter come close to Greatness + Runestone already.

I'd like to see a bit more concrete numbers associated with it if at all possible.

FeralbyNight (Cat & Bear simulation tool)

I'll grant it's a bit hard to search, because the thread doesn't know if [Idol of the Corruptor] is maybe "of Corruption" or "of the Corrupter" instead. The simple summary is that the Vezax idol is best when you supply your raid's mangles, but not enough to make mangling better than having a manglebot.

Dunno if I missed it or not, but is there a new list for Tanking Bear BiS with Hard Modes + Algalon?