Feral Tanking Discussion - Page 10

Nibble · 05/27/09, 1:51 PM

Originally Posted by Yero

About the Thorim Hardmode:
from Boevis' Gear, if I counted correctly:
+ 79 defense rating
+ 511 resilience rating

Crit calculation:

+ 5.6% You vs. Boss(Level 83)  (5% base + 0,2%/lvl difference)
- 6.0% SotF -%crit 
- 3.16% Gear Def -%crit = 79 *0.04%
- 6.231% Gear Resilience = 511 / 82
+ 8.0% Unbalancing Strike = 200*0.04% 
_____ 
-1.791 % crit

Something I missed? Is there diminishing return on resilience?

You're calculating 79 defense rating as 79 defense skill. I'm also not sure where 79 came from, I see 20 head enchant + 46 neck + 25 back = 91 rating, 18.5 skill, 0.74% crit avoidance.

Yero · 05/27/09, 2:52 PM

Originally Posted by Nibble

You're calculating 79 defense rating as 79 defense skill. I'm also not sure where 79 came from, I see 20 head enchant + 46 neck + 25 back = 91 rating, 18.5 skill, 0.74% crit avoidance.

You missed the 8def rating from the gem in the gloves slot. I corrected my calc, now Boevis is crittable...

Boevis · 05/27/09, 4:15 PM

Not sure where you guys are getting these numbers for my resilience. I'm actually significantly over the cap with this setup because Rawr is currently calculating the set bonus as +35 not +50 (and I edited my original post because I switched to an agi gem in gloves)
Head: 20 def
Neck: 46 def
Shoulders: 15 res
Back: 25 def
Chest: 86 res
Wrist: 41 res
Waist: 56 res
Legs: 106 res
Feet: 80 res
Ring2: 42 res
Trinket2: 105 res
Set Bonus: 50 res

91 def rating = 18 def = .72% crit reduction
581 resilience = 7.08% crit reduction
sotf = .4% crit reduction
8.2% crit reduction.

Rawr actually tells me 8.24 and I could actually drop the chest enchant, but I'm wary of blizzard's rounding.

And honestly, 52.8% Avoidance post DR isn't nearly as significant a difference from my regular 56.2%, the only major downside to my gear is complete lack of burst threat (horribly low expertise, I may switch around some items like my new [Furious Gladiator's Dragonhide Gloves] and [Belt of the Twilight Assassin] and get the socket bonus on the chest with a shifting and a vivid), so I usually let the other tank grab him from the start, use his cooldowns, and I taunt before the 2nd unbalancing.

And no, he's never crushed me. And yes, I know it's likely more optimal to run a rotation (though you don't actually need more than 1 tank in phase 1, the arena can be tanked by DPS DKs, Warriors, or Cats-in-bearform) just because of having more cooldowns available on his white hits, but my healers are bad at switching targets.

kular911 · 05/27/09, 4:24 PM

Originally Posted by netrbrunet

Frenzied Regen by itself with 35k health heals for 35000*0.003*100 = 10500 health (assuming infinite rage scenario).
The glyph adds 20% for 2100 extra heals form FR alone. Of course you are getting the majority of your benefit from external helaing sources.

SI glyph give your 15% of your total health for 20 seconds. So 35000 * 0.15 = 5250.
And you lose all this health at the end of 15 seconds. This isn't because of the glyph, but the mechanics of SI; however, it does inherit that downside as well. On the upside, you do get the instant health, and you don't need to wait for the first big heal to come in like in the FR glyph case.

I lean towards the FR glyph for sure.

Edit: I used 35k health. maybe I should have used something a bit higher. This would tip things slightly in favor of SI, but I still don't think by enough to change my mind.

This post hits on something that I haven't seen anyone else say in this thread so far, but glyphs of FR and SI work best together when both spells are used at once.

Just doing a simple test to verify with my normal 34k hp I let an 80 elite Sentinel beat me down to under 20k hp and then hit FR. I healed for 12326 with 10 hits average of 1233 healed per hp.

Same mob this time I used glyphed SI which brought my HP to a little over 49k and then hit FR with its glyph. Healed for 17071 with 9 normal ticks for 1599 avg and 1 crit of 2681. Even with 0 crits the heal would have been 16k versus 12k without SI.

Raid buff the difference grows larger. I would say its almost best to use both SI and FR together in the emergency situations as even as little as 4-5k extra hp can make a huge difference.

Porthos · 05/27/09, 4:39 PM

Hi guys, I want to ask the more general question: how good is resilience gear for end-game bear tanking these days? I understand that the crit immunity is no longer required, but it seems that some of the new PvP gear has great tanking stats (just usually replacing a threat stat like armor pen for resilience - haven't looked at T8 with much detail). I see gladiator gear ranked near the top of many gear lists, but i'm not 100% sure of the value resilience has in PvE.

If we are crit immune through talents already (except for those particular boss fights), then what do we really get from stacking resilience? Is the "reduces periodic damage" portion of the tooltip applicable to all incoming dmg or just DoTs from mobs/bosses? How many PvP pieces would be too many?

kalbear · 05/27/09, 4:40 PM

If we are crit immune through talents already (except for those particular boss fights), then what do we really get from stacking resilience? Is the "reduces periodic damage" portion of the tooltip applicable to all incoming dmg or just DoTs from mobs/bosses? How many PvP pieces would be too many?

The reason PvP ranks so highly has nothing to do with resilience and everything to do with it having a higher ilvl, higher stamina and higher agility than comparable PvE pieces. That's all.

Mijae · 05/27/09, 6:13 PM

Originally Posted by Boevis

91 def rating = 18 def = .72% crit reduction
581 resilience = 7.08% crit reduction
sotf = .4% crit reduction
8.2% crit reduction.

I'm not sure where you got this number from. SotF does not reduce crits by 0.4%, but by 6%.

Losing 200 defense increases crit chance by 8%, so you need 13.6% and you are at 13.8% (0.2% over).

Incadelico · 05/27/09, 10:08 PM

He already subtracted the bosses 5.6% crit chance from SotF hence 0.4% further crit reduction.

Boevis · 05/27/09, 10:28 PM

That's what I was saying, SotF is .4% crit reduction over what is normally needed (6% - 5.6% = .4%) I was merely showing how I was compensating for the 8% reduction from Unbalancing Strike (you'll notice I got the .2% over part on my own) and assuming

And yes, Kular, I think that unless you're specifically spacing your cooldowns (like on Sarth, Thorim, or Vezax) then using SI does increase the effect of FR. But as mentioned for cooldown require fights, do not ignore the power of the 20% increased healing received from the [Glyph of Frenzied Regeneration] as a stand-alone cooldown, my deaths from being 2-shot tend to occur during no-dodge strings where I'm not getting topped off, Frenzied Regeneration w/ glyph is equal with SI on health generated (sometimes more, sometimes less)

IrLurker · 05/28/09, 7:20 AM

Hello druids!

Well just have a simple question, I've been having a duscussion with my feral tank about a certain item ([Loop of the Agile]).

Well basicly what I want to know, is it really that good for tanking? I dont know much about feral tanking and itemization for it. That's why I went here. Im a hunter btw

We only do 10man in our guild, maybe there arent any other good tanking rings for feral druids in 10man.

nightcrowler · 05/28/09, 7:35 AM

Loop of the Agile is the best tanking ring in 10-men Ulduar and the third-fourth best ring at all. You can look here: Armor - Items - World of Warcraft

As for Using SI+FR together or stand alone I think it all goes down to the fight. For istance I prefere to use them together at high stacks on thorim because I know there will be another tank picking it up but on other fights when you'll need CDs for a longer time (hodir for istance) probably using them separatly it's better.

Gudder · 05/28/09, 10:55 AM

Post 3.1 in Ulduar... is the Greatness Deck BiS at all?? Or dont even bother with it..... if so.... +90 str or +90 agi one and why?

*Asking because I am now offspec feral again with full 7.5 going into Ulduar as a OT/MT 10mans and the deck is super cheap nowadays*

Currently using [Essence of Gossamer][Indestructible Alchemist's Stone]

Gallowglass · 05/28/09, 11:46 AM

I haven't seen a trinket yet that i'd replace my darkmoon card with for tanking along side heart of iron. I also still use it for DPSing also (tank mainspec, so gotta wait until all the other DPS have 2 trinks before i can get one from uldar)

Agi version, no question, its better for both tanking and DPS (str version was better for DPS previously).

Artannis · 05/28/09, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Artemas

Do you ferals keep stam and avoidance set seperate?

As a general tanking rule, you should probably build a mitigation/avoidance set and a stamina set separately. I also keep a threat set with me just in case I'm not taking too much damage and need to put out more threat (it allows me to take more damage for rage and has higher expertise).

Originally Posted by Gudder

Post 3.1 in Ulduar... is the Greatness Deck BiS at all??

I don't personally have a Greatness Deck, but from what I have read, the general BiS tanking trinkets for Feral are [Darkmoon Card: Greatness] and [Heart of Iron], the Greatness Deck to be replaced by [Royal Seal of King Llane] when more stamina is needed.

Intensity vs Improved Mangle
What does everyone think about this? I know that Intensity is considered a weak talent, but I personally find it more valuable than Improved Mangle. Intensity gives me that little bit of additional rage needed to keep my Arms Warriors and Retadins from pulling aggro off me on an initial pull. Plus, without Improved Mangle, I have a very simple rotation (Open w/ FFF + Charge, Mangle, Lac, Lac, Lac; rotation: Mangle, FFF, Lac, Swipe). With this rotation I put out about 4.5k-5.5k TPS, which is enough for what my guild is currently doing. Is Improved Mangle really worth destroying the rotation (and thus the simplicity in moving a target while continuing threat)?

Jishosan · 05/28/09, 1:33 PM

I'm trying to build a balanced set for tanking. Am I shooting myself in the foot, and should I be looking at maxing out one extreme or the other? I'm logged out in my tanking gear right now. I recently picked up JC so I can socket some Dragon's Eye in my tanking set. and I've been focusing on getting my stam up, but I have a number of agility gems as well.

Right now I've got about 41k hp raid buffed and 43% dodge, and hitting about 32k armor with devotion aura or stoneskin. Technically, the stats sound good to me, but some of the conversation makes me wonder if i should pick up the Polar set and stam gem it to the ground.