 |
06/03/09, 11:16 AM
|
#166
|
|
Glass Joe
Tauren Druid
Cenarion Circle
|
Originally Posted by isLuForever
In those cases, when you're trying to maximize your tanking talents, but also keeping enough to ensure you do decent DPS if needed, are certain talents more worthwhile than others?
|
Toskk's DPS calculator is a nice quick way to check as well - put in your stats, fill out your current talent loadout minus the DPS talents points you have yet to spend, and then play around with adding those talent points while watching how much they add to DPS.
|
|
|
|
|
06/03/09, 5:19 PM
|
#167
|
|
Bald Bull
Tauren Druid
Lightbringer
|
@Treetard: It's really not possible to have competitive Cat DPS with any bear spec (as defined by taking PotP, Thick Hide, and NR). If you are the primary Mangle provider for the raid, not taking Improved Mangle in a cat+bear spec is a terrible thing, it's one of the better TPS talents and DPS talents combined.
Actually, your current spec, aside from 2/2 NI (doesn't work in Bear), is pretty good for what you want, I'd probably go with 2/3 KotJ.
|
|
|
|
|
06/03/09, 5:41 PM
|
#168
|
|
Glass Joe
Tauren Druid
Laughing Skull
|
Originally Posted by Boevis
@Treetard: It's really not possible to have competitive Cat DPS with any bear spec (as defined by taking PotP, Thick Hide, and NR). If you are the primary Mangle provider for the raid, not taking Improved Mangle in a cat+bear spec is a terrible thing, it's one of the better TPS talents and DPS talents combined.
Actually, your current spec, aside from 2/2 NI (doesn't work in Bear), is pretty good for what you want, I'd probably go with 2/3 KotJ.
|
Yeah... guess I've been away from playing for so long I've forgotten how Blizzard words things so loosely. I was thinking the +70% Healing from AGI would increase the healing done by Frenzied Regeneration and LoTP procs, since they're counted as Healing effects. But just tested it, and isn't doing anything so I guess I'll switch those over to either KoTJ or SA.
Just out of curiosity in case I want to play around with things, any idea exactly how much 5/5 Feral Aggression will boost overall mitigation? I have no idea how much AP bosses have.
|
|
|
|
|
06/03/09, 5:42 PM
|
#169
|
|
Glass Joe
Tauren Druid
Laughing Skull
|
Double posted due to website timeout
Last edited by isLuForever : 06/03/09 at 5:50 PM.
Reason: Posting lag - Double posted
|
|
|
|
|
06/03/09, 5:56 PM
|
#170
|
|
Bald Bull
|
|
@Treetard: It's really not possible to have competitive Cat DPS with any bear spec (as defined by taking PotP, Thick Hide, and NR). If you are the primary Mangle provider for the raid, not taking Improved Mangle in a cat+bear spec is a terrible thing, it's one of the better TPS talents and DPS talents combined.
|
I think it really depends on what you mean by competitive. You can have shredding attacks, PI, KotJ and/or NS/MS. About the only thing that you lose is NS/MS, which while important isn't as critical as the other abilities if you so choose. If you'll look at my current spec it swaps PI for IW, but that's hardly necessary and could easily be swapped back. Alternately you can swap imp lotp and a point in FA for PI.
4% crit is very good, I admit. But it's not the difference between good dps and poor dps, at least not by itself.
Really, the requirements for a good bear spec are small enough and overlap enough with the requirements for a cat spec that hybridity is fairly reasonable. The main question I'd have is why, but if you wanted to do bear/cat on one spec and moonkin/resto on the other, I suppose that would be a good answer.
|
|
|
|
|
06/03/09, 6:10 PM
|
#171
|
|
Glass Joe
Tauren Druid
Laughing Skull
|
Originally Posted by kalbear
I think it really depends on what you mean by competitive. You can have shredding attacks, PI, KotJ and/or NS/MS. About the only thing that you lose is NS/MS, which while important isn't as critical as the other abilities if you so choose. If you'll look at my current spec it swaps PI for IW, but that's hardly necessary and could easily be swapped back. Alternately you can swap imp lotp and a point in FA for PI.
4% crit is very good, I admit. But it's not the difference between good dps and poor dps, at least not by itself.
Really, the requirements for a good bear spec are small enough and overlap enough with the requirements for a cat spec that hybridity is fairly reasonable. The main question I'd have is why, but if you wanted to do bear/cat on one spec and moonkin/resto on the other, I suppose that would be a good answer.
|
It's more of a... I'm generally MTing/OTing, but on the rare fights such as Maly or some of the Naxx bosses where a single tank is required, I'd like to be able to put out decent damage, while maintaining the ability to switch to bear and pick up the boss, or in cases like KT where a second tank is only required later in the fight, do decent DPS until I need to start tanking. I have no intention of ever joining a raid as DPS, but for the times where I can jump into kitty with my tanking gear on, I want to try and maximize that output. So... no 7k DPS, but with my current spec I seem to do about the same DPS in Bear as I do in Cat.
|
|
|
|
|
06/03/09, 9:15 PM
|
#172
|
|
Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Proudmoore
|
Originally Posted by isLuForever
Just out of curiosity in case I want to play around with things, any idea exactly how much 5/5 Feral Aggression will boost overall mitigation? I have no idea how much AP bosses have.
|
There's some more detail in the general class mechanics forum, but basically 1% off a boss's white melee damage for each 1 point in imp demo shout or demo roar, and all 5 points are required to reduce boss AP to zero. Boss special attacks can follow different rules depending on the fight, but generally they aren't affected by boss AP.
|
|
|
|
|
06/04/09, 2:37 PM
|
#173
|
|
Bald Bull
Tauren Druid
Lightbringer
|
I would say that SA and KotJ are of no value when Main Tanking Ulduar, Bosses hit sufficiently hard that Rage won't be an issue and you don't want to tax your healers by lowering your Armor more. In terms of maximizing Tanking with some DPS (not DPS with some Tanking) 2/3 KotJ and 3/3 Imp Mangle come out to be the best place for those leftover 5 points. If threat is of no issue, 2/2 SA and 3/3 KotJ are the best. It's possible this is going to vary with gear, but the % differences are significant enough that I doubt it.
|
|
|
|
|
06/04/09, 5:33 PM
|
#174
|
|
Bald Bull
Night Elf Druid
Earthen Ring (EU)
|
Honestly, you shouldnt even try -if the raid needs you to dps on a regular basis, dualspec a decent cat spec for your second talent set. one critical note here- unless you very reliably have a warrior doing fully talented demoralising shout, you really should max out feral agression to 5/5. It is a fairly strong mitigation talent.
|
|
|
|
|
06/05/09, 9:54 AM
|
#175
|
|
Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Stormrage
|
Sorry if this will sound like a stupid question. We're currently at Algalon-10 right now. I can't browse my log file atm, but Algalon is a fast-hitting boss, duel-wielding, main-hand hits me around 14k and off-hand around 9k. Sometimes with bad luck and timing, I find myself getting almost insta-gibbed under 2-2.5 secs.
Against that type of boss, which seems to be better stats? Avoidance vs. Stam vs. Mitigation (armor)?
|
|
|
|
|
06/05/09, 11:43 AM
|
#176
|
|
Don Flamenco
|
Pretty much universally the faster the attacks, the better avoidance is relative to stamina. If you look at an extreme: a boss hitting 20 times a second for 1k, there's not really a big chance for a bad avoidance streak averaged over that many attacks. Sure, its mathematically possible to still not dodge any of 50 attacks in 2.5 seconds and fall over dead, but chances are you're going to take at most like 30 of those 50 and be very much alive. Basically the faster the attacks, the larger the sample size, so the more you can rely upon your avoidance. Mitigation like armor is just always good as long as its physical damage killing you.
|
|
|
|
|
06/05/09, 3:45 PM
|
#177
|
|
Bald Bull
|
|
2/3 KotJ and 3/3 Imp Mangle come out to be the best place for those leftover 5 points.
|
You're going off of Rawr, correct? Rawr has a bug about how valuable shredding attacks is, and it's much better than mangle is. Saving 18 points on shreds is a much better bargain than saving 6 points on mangle, especially given that it's only 2 points.
|
|
|
|
|
06/05/09, 7:25 PM
|
#178
|
|
Banned
Dwarf Death Knight
Ner'zhul
|
Originally Posted by kalbear
You're going off of Rawr, correct? Rawr has a bug about how valuable shredding attacks is, and it's much better than mangle is. Saving 18 points on shreds is a much better bargain than saving 6 points on mangle, especially given that it's only 2 points.
|
if thats for kitty yes, u dont want SA for tank...and geting IMP mangle will help threat since it reduces the cooldown by 1.5 secs
|
|
|
|
|
06/06/09, 3:01 AM
|
#179
|
|
Glass Joe
|
So reading though a good deal of the forums on tanking after one of my guildies suggested that [Formula: Enchant Weapon - Blood Draining] was actually a good enchant for tanking said so by some one on these forums (which I haven't personally found a single post supporting this notion that hasn't either been auto disproved or completely ignore.)
Now the fact that It only generates 2k hp without outside healing boosts to it, and that to date any Druid Tank currently in end game raiding 9/10 has Mongoose enchanted says a lot by its self, but to prove some stupid guildies I am requiring your opinions on this subject.
Last edited by Farias : 06/06/09 at 3:02 AM.
Reason: gramar
|
|
|
|
|
06/06/09, 4:46 AM
|
#180
|
|
Bald Bull
Tauren Druid
Lightbringer
|
Originally Posted by Farias
So reading though a good deal of the forums on tanking after one of my guildies suggested that [Formula: Enchant Weapon - Blood Draining] was actually a good enchant for tanking said so by some one on these forums (which I haven't personally found a single post supporting this notion that hasn't either been auto disproved or completely ignore.)
Now the fact that It only generates 2k hp without outside healing boosts to it, and that to date any Druid Tank currently in end game raiding 9/10 has Mongoose enchanted says a lot by its self, but to prove some stupid guildies I am requiring your opinions on this subject.
|
I am a huge fan of IlotP. Both soloing, pvp, and raiding, it saves lives, not nearly as much as JoL or having decent healers, but it's there and it only costs 2 points which if spent elsewhere will only slightly increase TPS.
Blood Draining works off of a similar principle as iLotP, but in theory, provides a (slightly) bigger heal right when you need it most, instead of at random. It is absolutely terrible. It often takes longer to build up to 4 stacks (approximately the same value of an iLotP heal on a Low MaxHP Bear) than it does to proc iLotP twice. It also means you can't be using Mongoose. 2% Dodge (after kings, imotw, sotf) and 2% Haste with an absurdly high uptime (60% I think) is going to prevent far more damage on any fight where Burst Deaths are actually a threat. Certainly Mongoose can't remove the possibility of getting 2-shot, but neither can Blood Draining.
As the saying goes, An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
|
|
|
|
|
|