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Old 06/08/09, 5:30 PM   #196
Makapuu
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Destromath
Originally Posted by Loryli View Post
I use the following macro:

/cast maul
/castsequence reset=3 Mangle (Bear)(), Faerie Fire (Feral)(), Lacerate, Mangle (Bear)(), Swipe (Bear)(), Faerie Fire (Feral)(), Mangle (Bear)(), Lacerate, Swipe (Bear)()

My threat is always massive. Only time I lose agro is within 15 seconds of the pull, or special cases like Hodir or Vezax (but even on those with a well timed enrage/berserk and watching omen to call for salvation I have almost no probs).
The start of the second parse of your macro FFF and Mangle are both off CD.

Also if you have to hit Barkskin or any other CD it will throw off the timing more so.

I am not a fan of tanking sequence macros for bears. It smacks of laziness and to easily goes off track.

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Old 06/08/09, 11:39 PM   #197
Xantcha
StUfF
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Jubei'Thos
Barkskin is off the GCD.
Compared to a regular Mangle,FF,X,X rotation it will sync up at (36gcds in).

Over 52.5 seconds the difference is.

Imp Mangle - 12 Mangles 8 FF
Regular - 9 Mangles 9 FF

FF - Mangle threat wise are very similar. I think FF is slightly ahead but let's just say they cancel out.
You gain 2 mangles over a 52.5 second duration.
Mangle over a swipe is about 2k~ threat.

This is a 75 TPS gain over a regular rotation.
So, 25 TPS per point in Improved mangle or about a 1-1.5% TPS gain.

But you complicate your max TPS rotation ALOT (9gcd 'rotation' vs 4 gcd rotation), and by putting everything in a castsequence if you ever need to demo shout or use anything that might use a gcd you push your rotation off by one gcd - do this once or twice and you totally negate your tps advantage.

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Old 06/09/09, 7:22 PM   #198
Makapuu
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Destromath
Barkskin and SI may be off the GCD but, well for my binds at least, do take time to hit. Which can further deviate the sequence. Also the latent haste forced on to gear will have a similar affect.

Regardless, we can both agree that cast sequence macros are bad.

Except for buffing ones. Go go Mark -> Thorns cast sequence macro.

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Old 06/09/09, 8:46 PM   #199
Latas
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Uther
For the most optimal threat rotation macro with 3/3 imp mangle, I use the macro listed below. It optimally uses mangle and FFF every time its up, generally right when its up and repeats only when they line up completely again. I mainly use the macro because I am normally a moonkin first and while I have dabbled in tanking I've only recently had to do it as my official offspec. Macros for threat after the stacking of lacerate to 5 in my opinion lets me focus on the other tanking things rather than optimal rotation. Of course as with any macro use maul manually as you would see fit.

Swipe is used as filler for the most part as it ends up being more damage than the initial hit of lacerate, at least for me. The reset conditional is subjective to whatever you want.

One thing to note about this macro is it is over 255 characters so I actually have to use macaroon action bars to use it which allows macros of up to 1024 characters.

/castsequence reset=target Mangle (Bear)(), Faerie Fire (Feral)(), Lacerate, Swipe (Bear)(), Mangle (Bear)(), Swipe (Bear)(), Faerie Fire (Feral)(), Lacerate, Mangle (Bear)(), Swipe (Bear)(), Lacerate, Faerie Fire (Feral)(), Mangle (Bear)(), Swipe (Bear)(), Lacerate, Swipe (Bear)()

I hope this helps those that like using macros to simplify their threat rotation.

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Old 06/09/09, 9:32 PM   #200
Xantcha
StUfF
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Jubei'Thos
Originally Posted by Latas View Post

/castsequence reset=target Mangle (Bear)(), Faerie Fire (Feral)(), Lacerate, Swipe (Bear)(), Mangle (Bear)(), Swipe (Bear)(), Faerie Fire (Feral)(), Lacerate, Mangle (Bear)(), Swipe (Bear)(), Lacerate, Faerie Fire (Feral)(), Mangle (Bear)(), Swipe (Bear)(), Lacerate, Swipe (Bear)()

This cast sequence makes zero sense.

You put 7.5 seconds between ever FFF (FFF is 6 second CD).
You put 6 seconds between every Mangle (Improved Mangle is 4.5 CD).
Your castsequence is 16 actions long. That's 24 seconds, there absolutely no reason it has to be this long.
You reset on target change, if your tanking multiple mobs and trying to build threat on them your macro would be sitting around waiting for mangle gcd and you'd be doing nothing alot of the time.
Your castsequence doesn't even include Maul - the highest threat ability druids have.

If you absolutely have to use a castseqence to tank, and you absolutely have to use 3/3 Improved mangle.
Loryli's Castsequence is probably most optimal. (I would lower the reset time though, so I could substitute the last swipe for a demo roar and have it reset as mangle CD is coming back up)

/cast maul
/castsequence reset=3 Mangle (Bear)(), Faerie Fire (Feral)(), Lacerate, Mangle (Bear)(), Swipe (Bear)(), Faerie Fire (Feral)(), Mangle (Bear)(), Lacerate, Swipe (Bear)()

Last edited by Xantcha : 06/09/09 at 9:38 PM.

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Old 06/09/09, 9:36 PM   #201
Latas
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Uther
Ah thank you for that catch, I completely forgot to account for the GCD of FFF itself.

The reset on target change is because I would only use this on single target tanking. The castsequence doesn't include maul because I manually manage that ability based on if I'm running out of rage or not.

Last edited by Latas : 06/09/09 at 9:49 PM.

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Old 06/10/09, 5:34 AM   #202
Daboran
King Hippo
 
Daboran's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Inaiwae View Post
I am strugling with threat on Vezax (normal mode) and Hodir (hard mode) kills.

For Hodir hard mode:

1. If you have a Warrior in the raid, get him to do Thunderclap. Respec to drop IW and Brutal Impact (not needed for PvE ) and then take Master Shapeshifter for 4% more damage (threat).

2. Beserk at start of fight and at every cooldown. Make sure that any melee who get Storm stand on top of you.

3. Stand in a column of light for the haste buff if you need threat - even if that means melee have to hit boss from the front too. Usually though there are tow columns close enough for you to position the boss so that both you and melee have a buff.

4. This fight requires that you reposition the boss regularly to keep the melee in a haste buff light column - it's one of the prime cases where a castsequence macro will probably improve your threat immensely - Loryli's macro will do fine. Spam the macro, jump a lot to dispel biting cold. Make sure you have taunt handy so that when the ranged dps pull aggro you can taunt back and tell them to soulshatter/invis/FD afterwards (if it's a Moonkin get a Salvation on them).

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Old 06/10/09, 12:20 PM   #203
Garanthir
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Eldre'Thalas
Originally Posted by Daboran View Post
For Hodir hard mode:

1. If you have a Warrior in the raid, get him to do Thunderclap. Respec to drop IW and Brutal Impact (not needed for PvE ) and then take Master Shapeshifter for 4% more damage (threat).

2. Beserk at start of fight and at every cooldown. Make sure that any melee who get Storm stand on top of you.

3. Stand in a column of light for the haste buff if you need threat - even if that means melee have to hit boss from the front too. Usually though there are tow columns close enough for you to position the boss so that both you and melee have a buff.

4. This fight requires that you reposition the boss regularly to keep the melee in a haste buff light column - it's one of the prime cases where a castsequence macro will probably improve your threat immensely - Loryli's macro will do fine. Spam the macro, jump a lot to dispel biting cold. Make sure you have taunt handy so that when the ranged dps pull aggro you can taunt back and tell them to soulshatter/invis/FD afterwards (if it's a Moonkin get a Salvation on them).
Using the tanking suggestions above what are you guys using for gear sets on Hodir hard mode? I've been juggling between no Frost Resist, 1pc, then 2 pc in slots that do not affect Expertise too much.

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Old 06/10/09, 2:40 PM   #204
Natural
Don Flamenco
 
Natural's Avatar
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by Garanthir View Post
Using the tanking suggestions above what are you guys using for gear sets on Hodir hard mode? I've been juggling between no Frost Resist, 1pc, then 2 pc in slots that do not affect Expertise too much.
As a feral, wearing frost resist on Hodir is a no-brainer. You definitely should. When Hodir gains Frozen Blows, the entire raid is taking a ton of damage. You need to run with a few healers as possible to kill him in 3 minutes, therefore your healers are going to be very busy at this time. You don't want to be getting hit for 25-35k frozen blow smashes while the healers are already trying to keep the raid alive. Wear the frost resist and it will make tank healing a non-issue when the raid needs the heals.

For the rest of the gear I would maximize threat (expertise/hit) over avoidance.

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Old 06/10/09, 3:01 PM   #205
Deathwing
Bald Bull
 
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Orc Warrior
 
Black Dragonflight
Originally Posted by Daboran View Post
For Hodir hard mode:

1. If you have a Warrior in the raid, get him to do Thunderclap. Respec to drop IW and Brutal Impact (not needed for PvE ) and then take Master Shapeshifter for 4% more damage (threat).

2. Beserk at start of fight and at every cooldown. Make sure that any melee who get Storm stand on top of you.

3. Stand in a column of light for the haste buff if you need threat - even if that means melee have to hit boss from the front too. Usually though there are tow columns close enough for you to position the boss so that both you and melee have a buff.

4. This fight requires that you reposition the boss regularly to keep the melee in a haste buff light column - it's one of the prime cases where a castsequence macro will probably improve your threat immensely - Loryli's macro will do fine. Spam the macro, jump a lot to dispel biting cold. Make sure you have taunt handy so that when the ranged dps pull aggro you can taunt back and tell them to soulshatter/invis/FD afterwards (if it's a Moonkin get a Salvation on them).
I would suggest against #2. The person with storm cloud might be a ranged. They need that 130% agro threshold to keep from pulling off you(more easily). Also, the storm cloud buff is limited to 4 people, 6 heroic. "Wasting" one of the buffs on a tank is going to hamper your dps considerably.

I somewhat agree about standing in moon beams. BUT it can increase spike damage during frozen blows. Might want to avoid it then.

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Old 06/10/09, 3:02 PM   #206
Phoa
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Doomhammer
In addition to #2, you will only be able to berserk once for Hodir hardmode so make it count.

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Old 06/11/09, 2:46 AM   #207
Daboran
King Hippo
 
Daboran's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Deathwing View Post
I would suggest against #2. The person with storm cloud might be a ranged.
That's why I said melee....

I actually wear zero resist gear, just plenty of HP and threat. We do this fight exactly as I described and finished with 25secs to spare.

We have Paladins using Divine Sacrifice (40% less damage) during Frozen Blows, which also enables you to cut healer numbers on this fight. I wouldnt recommend not wearing resist gear if you don't do it this way.

Last edited by Daboran : 06/11/09 at 2:56 AM.

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Old 06/11/09, 5:36 AM   #208
Boevis
Bald Bull
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Lightbringer
Originally Posted by Daboran View Post
That's why I said melee....

I actually wear zero resist gear, just plenty of HP and threat. We do this fight exactly as I described and finished with 25secs to spare.

We have Paladins using Divine Sacrifice (40% less damage) during Frozen Blows, which also enables you to cut healer numbers on this fight. I wouldnt recommend not wearing resist gear if you don't do it this way.
I'd be very wary of relying on Divine Sacrifice. Because it's limited to 150% of the Paladin's health, it's only absorbing <40k health and will likely get mostly absorbed by AoE damage, especially in Heroics, which is primarily what we use it for. Hand of Sacrifice is a much better "tank" cooldown, while it doesn't absorb as much, it's restricted to the person it's cast on and won't get wasted by a single bad icicle/frostbolt volley/static chage.

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Old 06/11/09, 10:33 AM   #209
Natural
Don Flamenco
 
Natural's Avatar
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by Boevis View Post
I'd be very wary of relying on Divine Sacrifice. Because it's limited to 150% of the Paladin's health, it's only absorbing <40k health and will likely get mostly absorbed by AoE damage, especially in Heroics, which is primarily what we use it for. Hand of Sacrifice is a much better "tank" cooldown, while it doesn't absorb as much, it's restricted to the person it's cast on and won't get wasted by a single bad icicle/frostbolt volley/static chage.
Currently, if you stack paladin bubble with Divine Sacrifice, the divine sacrifice does not go away after the health limit, so it lasts the full duration of the buff. This is probably unintended.

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Old 06/12/09, 4:32 AM   #210
Daboran
King Hippo
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Natural View Post
Currently, if you stack paladin bubble with Divine Sacrifice, the divine sacrifice does not go away after the health limit, so it lasts the full duration of the buff. This is probably unintended.
This. But as a well-known MMO dev once said: "exploit early, exploit often"

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