The main reason you're falling behind the warrior is that the warrior got their threat significantly buffed in 3.2. It's not a surprise.

You should be queuing maul at all times. There's no excuse to ever not maul. Even when rage starved. It's just that much threat.

I do queue maul every opportunity I get, sorry if that wasn't clear in my post. Is it safe to say then that is essentially the reason and nothing else?

I know that warriors did get their threat buffed by quite abit, just didn't realise it would be by such a significant amount to the point where a druid would fall behind by so much.

Thanks.

I looked at your armory, I'd say there are a couple of things you really need to change. The first is weapon. Getting a better weapon will do a ton for your threat through the Feral Attack Power increase. The second is Expertise - even with the expertise on your staff you are below the dodge cap. At this point expertise is twice as valuable as hit for threat generation. A good trinket for surviveability is The Black Heart out of the 5-man ToC dungeon. For Idol, get the Idol of the Corruptor from Conquest Emblems, or save up to buy the Idol of Mutilation if you want a dual dps utility idol. Also, getting the Clutch of Fortification from Triumph badges is a solid investment, along with the Glyph of Indomitability for high physical damage fights. The big thing is you need more 226-232 gear, its a noticeable increase in surviveability, and more expertise for that maul threat - the t9 helm is a good choice for the expertise and surviveability. I'm guessing the spec with Thick Hide is your tank spec - drop the point in Primal Tenacity and the 2 points in shredding attacks. At this point you have 2 options - also take 2 points from Furor and get Master Shapeshifter for 4% more damage (more threat!) or just put those 3 points in King of the Jungle - good way to use this is to pop barkskin then enrage, particularly when you are taunting, for the burst threat as you jump above the other tank.

so tanking adds on anub hardmode seems best suited for those with sheild block, which is fine by me. Does anyone with experience tanking anub hardmode have thoughts on how we should be gearing? EH? Avoidance (and making his heals less in ph3) What do you guys use?

Blurbel

Although it's laudable to improve your threat and looking at gear/rotation improvements, there's actually not many situations where it REALLY matters as long as you can out-threat the dps. When you taunt, you take over the current threat level anyway.

Your threat in in a situation where you are attacking the same target as another tank only matters where the target isn't tauntable. In other cases, just do what you have done already and use the top-threat tank to start with.

The only consideration for us on Gormok us "who is tanking last?" we amend our tank rotation according to the dps we have so that I can tank him last (when he has 4-5 damage buffs) with Barkskin and Survival Instincts available and therefore I negate his "I hit you for 11k Dot, 33k impale, plus 15k hit, plus a 11k DoT" instagib scenario.

I have only tanked Anub hardmode on 10-man, but I am actually the preferred adds tank. I use the same general gearset I use for everything else, about 52k full raid buffs (kings, fort, commanding, imp MotW, stoneblood flask) and about 45% dodge before procs from mongoose and idol of corruption. I only have issues if more than 2 adds are up at the same time, which is generally a fail at the encounter in my experience.

As of yet, we still aren't allowed to discuss strats for Anub Hardmode, I'm not sure if that includes 10 man though, since it's a very different fight and many more guilds have killed him in 10H. I'm not about to risk it at this point though.

I'm not sure at which point he gains his damage buffs, but I'm the 3rd tank (and thus 6th) and tended to die a lot until I started saving all of my cooldowns for the final tanking, as well, Daboran. If all our Snobolds end up on healers there's a good chance we'll see a tank death. We also run fairly light on Paladins (2), but we do use BoP to clear mine so I don't get 2 shot by Dreadscale.

Speaking of Dreadscale, I've been having major issues with Paladin DoT threat pulling back off me after a taunt, specifically Dreadscale. Because I'm the last tank on Gormok, the Paladin picks up Dreadscale first and starts kiting him, I usually innervate someone and help kill the last Snobold, then head over and start stacking lacerates. As soon as the Paladin gets Burning Bile, I taunt and he runs into the "Run here if you get paralytic toxin" area to break out those people, if I do not crit twice or simply miss with one of the next Mauls, he pulls aggro back. Is Paladin single target threat really so much better that he can out threat me with Judgement/Consecrate tics and white swings as he's moving away, or is there just something weird with Dreadscale where he'll target someone else.

This is really helpful for me as well. Despite repeatedly succeeding in encounters that should, conceivably, give me a nice tanking staff or polearm - I simply cannot seem to get one to drop. I'm still carrying the Staff of Trickery I've had for ten months. I can't even get Marrowstrike to drop.

I've noticed that I tend to hang right on the line on threat (per Omen) in tough encounters, and I've wondered if my inferior attack power might be a factor. I really think a new weapon should be my top priority now.

I'm not good at english, but here it goes:

Talking about Gormok, our only sucessfull strat on 25 man Hard was something my healers thought it was going to be crazy, but they started to love it after it worked the first time. So, I duo tank it with a DK tank.
I did put together a full stamina set that provides me 60k HP full buffed, since the main part of the damage I would take was the bleeding and his big hitter.
I tank from the beggining to the 4th Impale without cds, use barkskin for the 5th and get pain supression for the 6th.
My dk buddy then taunts and takes 3 Impales, while I get rid of the BoP the palladin just threw at me to stop the bleeding.
Just after the 3rd Impale, I taunt it back and the dk gets a BoP to stop the bleeding.
I take 1 more Impale and use Survival Instincts almost at the 2nd (with 4t8 bonus, giving me 28 seconds). And I just stand there while the healers spam to top those 87k HP every big hit he does. When our dps is fine I just get 3 Impales on this last round so it's easy to heal through.

I don't have much problem holding threat too, since I have close to hit and expertise(just dodge) caps.

On the worms phase I take dreadscale all the time, and we burn acidmaw with BL, dreadscale goes enrage and we kill it then. Burning both together gave us some headaches with the debuffs, so we found it's easier the other way.

With this much HP I'm the tank of choice for Icehowl too, since the Stun is not a big deal.(And I do believe it isn't for any tank).

Our tank healers are 2 Pallys and one disc. 2 Druids on the raid.

My druid is my main character I raid with, but I also tank with an 80 paladin as well. The paladin is geared with a couple Ulduar pieces, Kel's axe and shield, and a few pieces from 10 and 25 man normal ToC. My paladin's gear is worse than my druid's, but my threat is consistently higher on the paladin. The buff to Seal of Corruption/Vengeance that was made to make it the ret seal of choice makes it output a lot of damage/threat once 5 stacks are reached. However, I don't think between it and consecration that there is enough holy damage to hold threat off your full rotation.

I'm also our 3rd tank on Gormok and something I've been doing to springboard my threat ahead after taunting is to drop a 5 pt Rip and Rake right before I'm supposed to taunt. That, along with being hit capped / 43 expertise gets me a strong jump past the dps before the 1st tank taunts back. I don't know if this will work for your transition on Dreadscale or not, as I tank the stationary worms in the ground due to feral charge. We run melee heavy and found we needed strong tank threat to allow some melee to start on Acidmaw.

I'd like to thank everyone for their comments and analysis. It's good to see that I'm not the only druid who's struggling a bit with threat; the paladins and warriors seem to have a pretty strong edge there. Complaining about paladins is my new old hobby. >.>

Especially helpful was the pointer to the Tankspot feral druid tanking rotation video. I'd "fallen out of love" with Tankspot, simply because in the Burning Crusade days their treatment of ferals was cursory at best. This video was very helpful, though, and clued me in that I've been doing it wrong, though not by a lot -- just enough that my threat is lower than it should be.

Just to offer some balance to the discussion of threat. I'm not experiencing issues with threat, and I do consider threat stats when I upgrade. My tanking weapon of choice is Twisted Visage, and I firmly believe that for your weapon the threat gains should be the most important factor. Better yet to have a weapon for mitigation and another for threat. I am over the hit cap, my taunts can miss but nothing else, and I value expertise on my gear second only to stamina, though still about equally beneficial to gaining agility. I'm over 40% dodge and quite a bit of armor, and I've never had a healer complain despite my lower dependence on agility. I take less spikey damage with armor and expertise stacking. Also, when it comes to rage, those misses and dodges take their toll. I don't get rage starved, but if you are, double check your hit and expertise. Every white attack you land provides rage, so as your mitigation increases, your expertise needs will too.

Oh, just an example.. I tank with a pally who is similarly and perhaps less geared, but only slightly if so. He has trouble keeping up with my threat, on AoE and single target. Another paladin I raid with has better threat than I do but is significantly better geared.

You should never, ever be making white attacks. Ever. If you're doing this, you're doing it wrong.

If you want more rage as a bear, the best stat to emphasize is crit. That's the only stat that doesn't stop rage input (like avoidance can) while giving rage back.

This is exactly the same problem I'm facing as well. My guild is strictly 10man-only, and being Australian on a non-Oceanic server means there are no 25man PUGs running when I'm on. I've been waiting for Tortured Earth to drop off Vezax hardmode for more than a month now with no luck.

I had the same issue, and it happens with DKs to a lesser extent. It's fine if you taunt when you're on top of the mob and can attack right away, but if you want to use the taunt to reposition the mob you have a very high chance a Pali or DK will grab it back as they can be well above you by the time the taunt wears off.

Is that the actual mechanic of taunting? I always was led to believe that a taunt did not actually generate threat per se but simply moved you to the top of the list temporarily and if you couldn't generate sufficient aggro in that temporary condition that you would lose aggro on the mob/boss.

After searching the forums and not find a reference I will post a question for the people that know.

I am currently in a 10 man raiding guild, yesterday we finished ToC regular for the first time. I was lucky enough to get the Fervor of the Frostborn. My other trinkets are the Darkmoon Card: Greatness and the The Black Heart.

When checking RAWR this morning I found out that it has the Fervor even under the Essence of the Gossamer, which sounds weird to me.

What, in your opinion, would be a good pair of trinkets to use in general? I was thinking about pairing the Fervor with the Greatness card for most fights unless I am in need of more HP in which case I can use the Black Heart.

That part isn't true, taunting sets your threat equal to the highest on the list (or more likely the person who actually had aggro, but I don't have time to go test that). That does mean somebody has to generate at least 10% more threat than you to pull it back off, but it doesn't actually grant you extra threat beyond the top person.

First:
Taunt gives you the same threat as the person who has aggro, and not the top threat on the table. Let's say you have 2 tanks and 1 dps on the boss:

DPS has 105k threat.
Tank1 has 100k (and is being attacked).
Tank2 has 80k threat.

Taunt goes off, now we have:
DPS has 105k threat.
Tank2 has 100k threat (and is now being attacked).
Tank1 has 100k threat(and is not being attacked anymore).

Second:
To pull from you, a person in meelee range needs 10% more threat than you. But if they're not on meelee range, they need 130% threat to do it. Thats why I did use 30% on my example.
You can test this with any mob, get some ranged dps and tell him to dps until he has 120% threat.
While he's on range, he will not pull from the tank.
If he moves on meelee range, even without using any ability after that, he will instantly aggro and start getting beaten on.
Our guild didn't know that until we got lots of dead locks when we grouped for flash freezee on hodir.

I guess my question can really be distilled down to "Does our standard taunt (Growl) actually generate threat?" If so, on a single tank situation it would seem to make sense to keep it on CD, but I have never gotten the impression that is the case. I understand the ranged vs. melee question.

On any situation Growl doesn't generate ANY threat, and doesn't has ANY effect if you're the one being attacked by the boss.

Thats pretty much the answer you wanted I think, sorry for making it look more complicated.

Rawr is absolutely correct. Fervor is relatively useless unless you have incredibly bad trinkets. Point for point, Stamina outweighs dodge in every way. I'd recommend using The Black Heart and DMC:G.

Not only does that not generate any threat or do anything useful, it can be incredibly detrimental and even possibly cause a raid wipe. Taunt goes DR and becomes immune after about 3-5 successive taunts. If you're spamming taunt, the boss will quickly become immune, leaving you unable to use it should you actually need to.