well tyvm for pointing out something i should have already known. i would assume that replacing maul would be the best choice as there are not any real fights where i would need agro on 2 targets?
For Icecrown Citadel, we are implementing a spell that will affect every enemy creature in the raid. The spell, called Chill of the Throne, will allow creatures to ignore 20% of the dodge chance of their melee targets. So if a raid's main tank had 30% dodge normally, in Icecrown Citadel they will effectively have 10%.
Why are we doing this?
The high levels of tank avoidance players have obtained is making the incoming damage a tank DOES take more "spiky" than is healthy for raiding. Ideally, tanks would be receiving a relatively constant stream of damage over time. This allows healers to better plan their healing strategy, broaden their spell options, and simply give more time to react. Tanks could use their cooldowns more reactively. Instead, the current situation is that if we make a hard hitting melee boss and a tank doesn't avoid two successive swings then the tank could very well be dead in that 1-2 second window. The use of reactive defensive abilities instead becomes a methodically planned affair, healers have to spam their largest heals just in case the huge damage spike happens.
And this time is not our fault.
Sunwell Radiance was implemented because bears could reach +80% dodge.
Nowadays we can barely touch 60%, but warriors and paladins got to a point where they block every hit(Anub Hard Mode is a good example of this) and this is caused by their high levels of avoidance on dodge/parry/miss.
I think that this could lead to us gemming full stamina, and getting a buff here or there to increase our armor to a more suitable level.
How will this affect Druid tanking as a whole, assuming the patch goes live as is (EG. No buffs)? Fully buffed I'm at 41%, with Radiance I'll be at 21%. Add in a generous 2% for the gear I've yet to get. Seeing as how dodge is our only form of avoidance, and we aren't going into IC with absurdly high numbers as was the case with sunwell, how worthwhile would it be to even use a Druid tank?
How will this affect Druid tanking as a whole, assuming the patch goes live as is (EG. No buffs)? Fully buffed I'm at 41%, with Radiance I'll be at 21%. Add in a generous 2% for the gear I've yet to get. Seeing as how dodge is our only form of avoidance, and we aren't going into IC with absurdly high numbers as was the case with sunwell, how worthwhile would it be to even use a Druid tank?
Using Rawr's numbers (I know, not entirely accurate, but at least a good ballpark), they have me with an effective dodge of over 50%. Combined with armor mitigation and Savage Defense, it predicts that I'm taking less than 10% of all incoming damage, roughly the same as the warrior MT in our guild. Since his dodge is over 20%, I suspect the impact will be similar.
Ultimately, if they reduce how hard the bosses hit to compensate (especially if they make them hit more often), it might actually to be our benefit since a greater proportion will be absorbed by Savage Defense.
The tanks with the least avoidance (eg. Bears) are the least affected by this change.
Going from 60% avoidance to 40% avoidance is a 50% increase in average incoming damage.
Going from 50% avoidance to 30% avoidance is a 40% increase in average incoming damage.
We'll still have superior physical EH, and the relative difference in incoming hits between the other tanks and us has actually decreased, not increased. The only way this could be of relative benefit to DKs, Paladins and Warriors were if they could somehow drop their dodge to below 20%, but I don't believe that's going to be possible short of stupid gearing (... of the Bear greens or similar).
With that said, on a broader note; decreasing the per-hit damage should decrease the current emphasis on EH as a measure of tank quality.
Edit: The different diminishing returns curve on dodge for different tanks doesn't really matter. It's an absolute 20% avoidance drop for all tanks, post-diminishing returns. That's not necessarily to say that avoidance stats are balanced between the four tanks, but this doesn't really change anything. If the dodge / parry / defense -> dodge / agility split was balanced before, it will remain balanced (or vice versa if it was imbalanced previously).
i am currently one of the mts for the guild pwf, i have a question that i have been debating for the past little while is it worth sacrificing 170 stam for 1.7k armour? i currently have 43k unbuffed and 29k armour,
..you have to change your trinkets from fight to fight..for example: i use Juggernaut's Vitality + Eitrigg's Oath for one tank target, Juggernaut's Vitality + 170stam brew for mobs but if you recived a lot of damage from any hit it is a right way to use armor trinket with Juggernaut's Vitality or +170stam brew. from the other hand it is immportant which raid group support you. If you have very good heal you can switch your gear to stam gear, if you have low heal you have to recive less damage = dodge+armor+resist..
Going from 60% avoidance to 40% avoidance is a 50% increase in average incoming damage.
Going from 50% avoidance to 30% avoidance is a 40% increase in average incoming damage.
I'm not as familiar with the other tanking classes, but is it reasonable to assume that all endgame-geared tanks have at least 20% dodge? I could see the argument being made that if a shield tank were able to swap out gear so that they had 50% block/parry and only 10% dodge (and therefore only lost that 10%), that they'd be going from 60% avoidance to 50%, which is only a 25% increase in incoming damage.
Either way, I think the net effect is that all tanks will "feel" more like feral tanks do as far as healers are concerned - more of a mana sponge in terms of needing more healing overall, but less stressful as you know that they'll be able to take a hit or two.
I'm not as familiar with the other tanking classes, but is it reasonable to assume that all endgame-geared tanks have at least 20% dodge?
Yes, any tank that has the gear to survive in Icecrown Citadel will have at least 20% dodge. With avoidance stats being spread out fairly homogeneously on plate tank gear, there's little to no choice to favor one form of avoidance over the other, except through gemming, but the majority of gems will be stamina anyway.
In short: Chill of the Throne will affect all tanks equally and there's no going around it.
Hai all, first time i make a post here but i did some research b4 i posted but couldnt find anything :< Probably to much info that i cant find the info i want ^^.
I'm pretty new to tanking, i tanked Ulduar 10 last night and no problem with health or anything the only problem is my Treath output,
My armory link is The World of Warcraft Armory, i used Rawr, and i use the correct rotation ( as far as i know ), Open with 1 mangle, lacerate and so on, i have the maul macro so everytime i do lacerate or mangle, i do maul with it aswell.
The sockets are on the way but one guildie says Pump full stamina in it. other's say go Agi gemms only :S.
Since i almost got a new staff i dont have Mongoose on it yet, but as soon as i have it i will put it on instantly .
Some gear tips+ enchants would be nice aswell if i made some embaressing mistakes :P.
I'm pretty new to tanking, i tanked Ulduar 10 last night and no problem with health or anything the only problem is my Treath output,
...
Some gear tips+ enchants would be nice aswell if i made some embaressing mistakes :P.
Try speccing Master Shapeshifter, get more hit and crit (your crit chance is alarmingly low) and always remember to use Faerie Fire whenever you can. It's the third highest aggro ability on one gcd. Another thing you should check is whether your rogue/hunter always misdirects/tricks you.
Enchant your cloak with agi and if you're really struggling with your threat gem for exp/sta or hit/sta instead of agi oder pure sta.
Before you regem anything for threat you need to get a better weapon (Kologarn drops one in Ulduar 10). That will make a huge difference to your threat. Other than that RAWR will show you your max threat rotation, so make sure you follow that.
Anyone knows if [Effulgent Skyflare Diamond] is reducing the damage from Leeching Swarm on Anub hard?
If it does, is it worth to change our armor meta for this one?
I don't think so, but this just came to my mind, wondering if anyone already did test this.
The tooltip is wrong. Instead of reducing spell damage by 2%, it increases your resists by 2%. It's only (somewhat) effective if you are already stacking resists.
The "Buff Resistances Only" glitch was corrected in patch 3.1. If you check the full effect on wowhead (Effulgent Skyflare Spell Damage Reduction) it's now "Apply Aura: Mod Dmg % Taken (All) Value: -2".
That said, whether it is broken for physical damage too ("% Taken (All)") or if it works on Leeching Swarm, I don't know.
Since there is no "feral tanking beginner guide" or anything, I'm sorry to lay this on this thread. If I'm missing another thread that goes over this stuff, link it and I'll send it over that way.
Recently, i'm a full time raiding moonkin for our 25 man, however in 10, we had lost a couple of our tanks to transfers, and so I kinda had to pick up a quick set a gear and do the best I could with it. I know little, and have looked up a good bit of stuff.
I know I need to get the helm enchanted, I'm about there (havent run heroics in forever)
I also know , at least I think, I need to replace my agility gems with agility / stam gems
Threat has been a bit of an issue which is why I spec'd into Master Shapeshifter
Rotation: FF, charge in, Mangle, Lacerate, with Maul's everywhere that rage permits. Priority Mange>Maul>FF>Lacerate>Swipe (single target speaking)
If the boss hits hard enough, I usually throw the roar in there
If anyone has any suggestions on spec/gemming/chanting plz help me out, I just want to be a suitable back up until help arrives :P
Pretty much everything is open for me, minus 25 man heroic stuff (not tanking, and not going to get for offspec)
The "Buff Resistances Only" glitch was corrected in patch 3.1. If you check the full effect on wowhead (Effulgent Skyflare Spell Damage Reduction) it's now "Apply Aura: Mod Dmg % Taken (All) Value: -2".
That said, whether it is broken for physical damage too ("% Taken (All)") or if it works on Leeching Swarm, I don't know.
It seems like the possibility of it being broken and applying to physical damage also would warrant testing it, if anyone that is decent in that department is willing. Not sure how many others are interested but I am very curious to see the results of any conclusive testing anyone does on this.
My strategy has been, with the fairly easy acquisition of the Conqueror's Helm, which has a generous amount of stamina, to have 2 helms for tanking, my primary helm with 2% armor and the other to reduce spell damage. After diminishing returns, the 2% armor doesn't actually add up to all that much, so I find myself using the spell damage helm quite often and it does help a lot.
It seems like the possibility of it being broken and applying to physical damage also would warrant testing it, if anyone that is decent in that department is willing. Not sure how many others are interested but I am very curious to see the results of any conclusive testing anyone does on this.
I've done this with a warrior's thunder clap.
Spell power meta 295
Effulgent meta 295
Armor meta 291.5
While I was at it I tested it with consecration as well.
Relentless meta 327
Effulgent meta 321
I'm having a little bit of trouble Deciding on trinkets for main tanking Anub 25man hardmode so I'm seeking a little bit of Advice. last week my guild got onto Anub 25hm for the first time with enough trys to start learning the fight. We were concentrating on learning phase 1 and 2 so never really made any serious attempts into phase 3. This week we are planing on making some serious attempts in phase 3 and i want to have the optimal gear setup for the fight. I'm just worried about having enough HP to survive some RNG hits in phase 3, but i also don't want to go OTT on HP because it just means it will cause the healers more work. I'm having a very hard time working out just where the balance point is. I'm just not sure if i should go for a higher health pool or less hp and a bit more physical mitigation. I've seen Anub melee swing me for ~50% and I've also seen him Freezing Slash me for about the same, add Leeching swarm ontop of that and I get very very worried about RNG in phase 3.
what i have available to me are the following trinkets:
Juggernaut's vitality
Juggernaut's Vitality hc
The Black Heart
Darkmoon card: Greatness
Glyph of indomitability
Furnace Stone
For Nature res I'm using:
25NR/30stam on head
20NR cloak
70NR Wrists
Lesser Flask of Resistance
NR totem
i have ~54k hp raid buffed without trinkets in my res gear.
I'm the MT for anub in my guild, we haven't killed him but are working on it, I run 47k raid buffed full gear. I use Glyph of Indomitability and The Black Heart, the armor procs mitigate a good chunk of the physical. Have you grabbed any of the ony rings yet? Those will push your NR higher.
At 47k I had no issues at all p1 and have had no issues in p3 so far. I also use 4t9 for the reduced cooldown on barkskin, I can use it almost every other freezing slash.
Thus far I've not been lucky enough to get either of the Ony rings but I've still got this weeks Ony25 save. (fingers crossed)
I've recently Dropped 4pt T9 infavor of BIS legs/chest and slightly better shoulders because imo the 4pt T9 although nice, is little better than 4pt T7 once you do the math on it.
if you're doing it with 47k hp and not having problems with RNG I think i'm going to go double mitigation trinkets.
"That's a lot of health!" with my standard EH gear i'm touching 63k raid buffed and 99k with Juggernaut's Vitality hc + Survival Instincts. however there is still room for more, i think with current BIS gear there's atleast another 7k hp to squeeze out.
(rant)it's that damn PVP staff that has 90stamina over and above anything you can get from current raid. needless to say it's frustrating for anyone unable to gain 2200 arena raiting in a 3v3 or 5v5 team.(/rant)
Getting back on topic. I've been using a mixture of Rawr and this guys blog ThinkTank to keep me right with gear upgrade paths etc. i have to say it's been a great aid in knowing what gear is worth going for and i really hope he keeps the blog going through ICC and beyond.
EDIT:
Just ran a Rawr to see what it thinks for mitigation trinket combo and it's sujestion is DC:G + Indomitability. which i think i'm going to opt for
10/29/09, 2:48 AM
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