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Old 09/10/09, 5:09 PM   #451
Morthis
Von Kaiser
 
Goblin Priest
 
Area 52
Originally Posted by MalaclypseTY View Post
Yeah I was aware of that. I was really looking for a 4 keybind set up instead of 6. 3 macros that queue maul with lacerate/mangle/swipe. One macro that I can hit to un toggle maul if it is queued up. I think that might not be possible any more the more I try and look for it.
A simple /stopcasting will de-toggle maul. That would still only work if your melee attacks aren't happening at the same time as your lacerate/mangle/swipe (since it would go off before you can de-toggle it). I'm also not sure if /stopcasting would mess with anything else. Still, if you're going to use 4 hotkeys anyway, why not simply get in the habit of queuing maul every time you have enough rage for it?

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Old 09/10/09, 5:52 PM   #452
MalaclypseTY
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Black Dragonflight
Originally Posted by Morthis View Post
A simple /stopcasting will de-toggle maul. That would still only work if your melee attacks aren't happening at the same time as your lacerate/mangle/swipe (since it would go off before you can de-toggle it). I'm also not sure if /stopcasting would mess with anything else. Still, if you're going to use 4 hotkeys anyway, why not simply get in the habit of queuing maul every time you have enough rage for it?
That is what I do now and it just feels kind of awkward. Maybe because I have never had a queued ability before. I actually think I might try Oiysters set up. That seems to be a reasonable solution to what I want to do.

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Old 09/11/09, 3:56 PM   #453
crilton
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Icecrown
Noob question about maul... if maul is qued will other moves overwrite it? IE I hit maul... its waiting for next attack, then I hit mangle. Will maul still go off for the next white attack or does mangle overwrite it? Sorry for the question but I want to make sure I understand it before messing around with macro's and the like.

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Old 09/11/09, 4:21 PM   #454
Bonemage
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Balnazzar
Originally Posted by crilton View Post
Noob question about maul... if maul is qued will other moves overwrite it? IE I hit maul... its waiting for next attack, then I hit mangle. Will maul still go off for the next white attack or does mangle overwrite it? Sorry for the question but I want to make sure I understand it before messing around with macro's and the like.
Specials attacks such as Mangle, Swipe, Lacerate and FFF are independent of white hits/normal melee, i.e. hitting a special attack doesn't effect your normal melee swing timer. Maul works by turning your next white hit into a special and when toggled on will be unaffected by the use of a subsequent special attack. All the above macros do is make sure every time you hit a special attack it also queues up maul for your next white hit.

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Old 09/14/09, 9:19 AM   #455
Jezele
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Scarlet Crusade
Originally Posted by Bloodfeud View Post
Rawr is also a matter of your settings -- stamina and armour are valued more highly if your survival soft cap is set high, and that cap at a minimum depends on your instance (T8, T8-25, etc).
These settings are fairly straightforward, but the threat setting seems ... fuzzy. Do most bears just leave it set to 10%, even if they're primarily an OT? The OT setting of 50% threat seems to pick too many "DPS" items to my mind, whereas a 25% custom value splits the difference.

Last edited by Jezele : 09/14/09 at 9:27 AM.

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Old 09/14/09, 11:15 AM   #456
 Polynices
What does Von Kaiser mean?
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Cenarius
I turn the threat setting off because I think it's silly to mix threat in with survival and mitigation when deciding on tanking gear. For the occasional fight where you're worried about threat just swap in a couple pieces of your cat gear. The rest of the time I think it's a real distraction from figuring out what is a real upgrade to the truly important stuff: survival and mitigation.

It's awkward enough combining those 2 into a composite value for rating items (very often it is a good idea to sort by one or the other and not look at gear based on the combined values). Including threat just makes it worse.

Last edited by Polynices : 09/14/09 at 12:04 PM.

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Old 09/14/09, 12:35 PM   #457
foxglove
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Uldum
I turn off the threat setting when I'm building my "maximum survival" set, but that isn't actually the set I usually wear when tanking. I've found that if I leave it disabled it all the time I end up with set recommendations that have no expertise and little hit, which in practice causes me a lot of problems. Adding a condition to the optimizer to make sure expertise and hit are above a certain value is an option, but for eyeballing things I think the threat information is helpful.

The 50% threat definitely seems too high to me. I can't think of a situation where I want that much extra threat at the cost of so much survivability.

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Old 09/14/09, 1:37 PM   #458
lairpie
Don Flamenco
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Shadowmoon
An option for adjusting the value of threat stability (as opposed to sustained tps) would be really nice. I essentially never have issues with sustained threat but "oops maul missed, mangle got parried and I dodge 3 attacks so I'm out of rage, oops, the enhancement shaman is dead" definitely would be nice to avoid.

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Old 09/17/09, 7:04 AM   #459
beatific
fishsticks.
 
beatific's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Kel'Thuzad
It seems like all of the druid tanks on my particular server go with blood draining for their tank weapon. From what I've read on these forums it seemed that people weren't altogther impressed by blood draining and frankly, I'm not either. I'm a fan of mongoose myself. Does anyone have some math or discussion in this subject that I can use to expand my mind?

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Old 09/17/09, 8:23 AM   #460
foxglove
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Uldum
Originally Posted by beatific View Post
It seems like all of the druid tanks on my particular server go with blood draining for their tank weapon. From what I've read on these forums it seemed that people weren't altogther impressed by blood draining and frankly, I'm not either. I'm a fan of mongoose myself. Does anyone have some math or discussion in this subject that I can use to expand my mind?
There's some discussion about modeling Blood Draining and healing here (with interesting graph):
Feral Tanking Discussion

Other than that, the most discussion of Blood Draining has been in the Feral enchants thread.

The biggest complaint I've seen about it is that it is too situational:

Originally Posted by kalbear View Post
If I'd drop below 35% often in a fight, more often than not I'm doing so quite often (Ignis the first time I tanked him is a good example of this). In that fight I could be down there quite often - 4-6 times a minute.

In that situation, you'll get a heal of 400, since it takes 10 seconds per proc and will be used immediately when you hit 35%. Which makes it functionally equivalent to about 35 stamina, except it's stamina you can't rely on.

The ideal case is when you will drop below 35% once in 50 seconds. In that specific case, it'll act like a 200 stamina boost right then. There are fights that have attack characteristics like this (Mimiron P1, Vezax, and possibly Hodir) but most fights are much more dynamic.
(Feral Survivability Maths)

Nonetheless, I think it's worthwhile to have a second weapon handy with Blood Draining enchanted, even if it's not the primary tanking weapon.

Last edited by foxglove : 09/17/09 at 8:30 AM.

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Old 09/17/09, 5:48 PM   #461
emerica128
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Terokkar
Faction Champions

My guild just downed Jaraxxus last night in 10 man reg so we're going to start working on Faction Champions tonight. I use a standard 55/16 tank spec and wondering what use I am for this fight? I read somewhere that I should try and chain stun a mob with pounce>maim>bear>bash>feral charge but that leaves me with a bunch of questions:

1) What do I do after that when everything is on CD and I can't re-stealth
2) Don't DRs mess with that and make it impossible/unreliable
3) Should change my 2nd spec to a 'pvp' spec for this fight, and if so what would that look like?

I don't pvp at all really, so I don't really know what I should be doing for this fight.

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Old 09/17/09, 6:15 PM   #462
Rolfcaron
Von Kaiser
 
Rolfcaron's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Onyxia
There shouldn't be any need for a respec. If your job in the fight is to tie something down do it however you can. Use roots (if your chosen target is melee, and don't forget nature's grasp) and cyclone. While in bear form, dont' be afraid to taunt your target as well. By mixing up methods you should be able to go a long way towards keeping something locked down. Also if it's an important target to keep locked down and busy (warrior for instance) and you are leaving him up for later in the kill order then I highly suggest mixing another CC or two in there to let your diminishing returns fade.

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Old 09/17/09, 7:53 PM   #463
Boevis
Bald Bull
 
Boevis's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Lightbringer
I lock down the paladin these days. I find it very helpful to have points spent on bash to give me another interrupt per minute and really fills in the only gap that would exist in my rotation otherwise, the longer duration also gives me time to go cat and get 5 cp for Maim as opposed to 3-4. Pouncing is generally impossible so I open with 3xcyclones (time your casts so the next one hits right after one ends), Feral Charge the next heal, Bash the next, Catform and maim the next, Feral Charge again, and Cyclones are off DR at this point. I really like Feral Charge for that reason, it's 15s cooldown makes an easy way to determine if something else is off DR (15s is the time it takes for something to reset DR).

This ends up being a lot of mana shifting so I wear my resto gear (I arena as resto) for both health and mana. When cycloning I throw out heals and decurse and when in bear I'll taunt any pets that are up. the only downside is when you get focused by 2 or more of the dangerous DPS (Rogue, DK, Ret Pally, Hunter, Warrior)

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Old 09/18/09, 9:22 AM   #464
Zhebus
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Cho'gall (EU)
I'm wondering about the threat value of King Of The Jungle in a Bear template, a quick computing is : KotJ is 15% more damage for 10 sec every 60 sec, so it seems to increase damages by 2.5% on overall if used on every CD. What about threat, it's not a 2.5% up, less I guess, anyone try to compute it?

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Old 09/18/09, 9:35 AM   #465
Negoveio
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Gurubashi
It's less, because our main threat move (Maul) has a fixed extra threat value(I remember ~420 extra threat), and this won't change with +damage modifiers (hysteria, KotJ and Master Shapeshifter).

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