Feral Tanking Discussion - Page 54

Umah · 02/19/10, 6:44 AM

On that topic: Anyone lately had taunt misses anywhere being overhitcapped like 11% (without glyph), or could explain to me why that might happen?

Defyn · 02/19/10, 7:24 AM

Not exactly sure which mobs you're referring to, but Growl and FFF are spells so they use spell hit, even with Misery you wouldn't be capped at 11%

Umah · 02/19/10, 8:37 AM

Originally Posted by Defyn

Not exactly sure which mobs you're referring to, but Growl and FFF are spells so they use spell hit, even with Misery you wouldn't be capped at 11%

Wasn't that changed in some 3.0.x patch? I thought it was, across the board, any Taunt spell would only require melee hit cap?
Did they change it back?

FFF is another thing (its no taunt anyway).

Cluey · 02/19/10, 8:54 AM

Originally Posted by Umah

Wasn't that changed in some 3.0.x patch? I thought it was, across the board, any Taunt spell would only require melee hit cap?
Did they change it back?

FFF is another thing (its no taunt anyway).

No it wasn't changed, if you think it was go and search the patch notes on it. If you don't think it was in the patch notes try more searches.
There would be no point in the glyph if it was changed and they've been pretty good at changing glyphs which were flat out not worth making.

Latas · 02/19/10, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Cluey

No it wasn't changed, if you think it was go and search the patch notes on it. If you don't think it was in the patch notes try more searches.
There would be no point in the glyph if it was changed and they've been pretty good at changing glyphs which were flat out not worth making.

I always figured the glyph was there to provide 100% hit chance on growl even if you had 0 hit rating.

Umah · 02/20/10, 7:21 AM

What has that to do with the glyph? For a long time many tanks did not even have 8% (until TOTC, if they did not specialize on hit), wearing T10 instead of random ICC equip results in the same issue (low hit)... Glyph of Growl makes sense even if the Growl/Taunt hit cap is 8%.

I was so sure that they changed the taunt hit cap to 8% in some post 3.0 still SWP patch or initially in WotLK...

Hoofhearted · 02/20/10, 11:36 AM

The change was that melee hit affected growl and taunt when melee hit and spell hit was not the same stat.

ramenchef · 02/20/10, 2:27 PM

Just for clarification, taunt uses the spell hit cap of 17% but melee hit. So, it's possible to miss taunts unless you're both melee hit capped and glyph taunt.

Umah · 02/20/10, 9:25 PM

Originally Posted by Hoofhearted

The change was that melee hit affected growl and taunt when melee hit and spell hit was not the same stat.

Thank you so much for clarification. I totally missread those patch notes back in time.

So the hit cap for taunt is 17 - 3 - 8 = 6% melee hit (With owl/spriest and Glyph of Growl) against 83?

Xeptix · 02/20/10, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by Treetard

I haven't seen this brought up yet, and Druids that I've asked on my server just think I'm an idiot for even suggesting it, but...

Is it feasible to tank with Cryptmaker? I was trying to figure out a way to stay at the hit cap without losing too much. The only suggestions so far on these forums have been to use necks/rings/cloaks with hit. I was trying to find a solution that would allow me to keep all the bonus armor on those pieces, and Cryptmaker seems to be it. In fact, this gives me the option of going with Armor Neck, Cloak, Ring + Ashen ring, or Armor Neck, Cloak, Ring, any other ring I choose + Hit food and one Vivid in place of a Tear.

Not to mention Cryptmaker has higher threat and higher EH, at the cost of only 2% Dodge. To me it seems like a much better solution for staying hit capped than losing ~1.5k armor.

I've been using Cryptmaker for a few weeks now. It's 2% less dodge, but the fAP gives it about 250 more block value and it gives about 1400 more HP than my next best weapon with hit on it (Shaft of Glacial Ice). I'll get the next Distand Land (which drops all the time for us), but honestly I'm not sure if I'd even wear anything except Bloodfall (which still hasn't dropped yet) over Cryptmaker for most fights.

Helistar · 02/21/10, 5:01 PM

Originally Posted by Umah

So the hit cap for taunt is 17 - 3 - 8 = 6% melee hit (With owl/spriest and Glyph of Growl) against 83?

I fear that there's some misunderstanding, coming from the use of "spell hit" and "melee hit". There aren't two separate stats, there's only one, called "hit rating", which affects both melee hit chance and spell hit chance, using two different coefficients. Taunt does not use the melee hit chance, as it's considered a spell.
So you don't need +6% "melee" hit (which corresponds to 6 * 32.78998947 = 196.74 hit rating), but you need +6% "spell" hit (which corresponds to 6 * 26.23199272= 157.4 hit rating).

Pheratia · 02/22/10, 3:30 AM

Originally Posted by Helistar

I fear that there's some misunderstanding, coming from the use of "spell hit" and "melee hit". There aren't two separate stats, there's only one, called "hit rating", which affects both melee hit chance and spell hit chance, using two different coefficients. Taunt does not use the melee hit chance, as it's considered a spell.
So you don't need +6% "melee" hit (which corresponds to 6 * 32.78998947 = 196.74 hit rating), but you need +6% "spell" hit (which corresponds to 6 * 26.23199272= 157.4 hit rating).

Yes, very true and accurate.

I'd like to explain why the 2 different terms were mentioned previously, however. The confusion about growl and taunt using melee hit cap was caused by an old patch that made melee hit affect growl and taunt during a time when they WERE 2 separate stats and only spell hit was previously affecting growl and taunt, since it was a spell (and still is a spell).

Currently you do have to have full spell hit cap (as you said) with the glyph included to not miss.

Smoketreez · 02/23/10, 1:33 PM

Originally Posted by Xeptix

I've been using Cryptmaker for a few weeks now. It's 2% less dodge, but the fAP gives it about 250 more block value and it gives about 1400 more HP than my next best weapon with hit on it (Shaft of Glacial Ice). I'll get the next Distand Land (which drops all the time for us), but honestly I'm not sure if I'd even wear anything except Bloodfall (which still hasn't dropped yet) over Cryptmaker for most fights.

I think the real question here is; what is your hit rating and expertise?

Cryptmaker is a good weapon, seeing as how hit rating is very scarce in ICC gear. I currently use Bloodfall and my guild is 12/12 (starting heroic modes tonight). Are you wearing 4p? Are you also wearing Ikfirus's Sack of Wonder?

Smoketreez · 02/23/10, 1:36 PM

Originally Posted by Umah

What has that to do with the glyph? For a long time many tanks did not even have 8% (until TOTC, if they did not specialize on hit), wearing T10 instead of random ICC equip results in the same issue (low hit)... Glyph of Growl makes sense even if the Growl/Taunt hit cap is 8%.

I was so sure that they changed the taunt hit cap to 8% in some post 3.0 still SWP patch or initially in WotLK...

Taunt is indeed on the spell hit table along with Faerie Fire Feral.

You need ~10.5% melee hit and a Shadow Priest or Boomkin to make the 17% spell hit cap.

Xeptix · 02/24/10, 5:43 AM

Originally Posted by Smoketreez

I think the real question here is; what is your hit rating and expertise?

Cryptmaker is a good weapon, seeing as how hit rating is very scarce in ICC gear. I currently use Bloodfall and my guild is 12/12 (starting heroic modes tonight). Are you wearing 4p? Are you also wearing Ikfirus's Sack of Wonder?

I have 2p, and the shoulders & gloves bagged most of the time. The stats are worth more than the bonus to me on many of the fights in ICC given uptime of the bonus. I wear Ikfurus's at all times. Based on the math and feedback from my healers, I think the only thing I'd wear over Cryptmaker for the majority of fights would be Bloodfall, which we've never even seen drop yet. 2% dodge while at ~39% dodge is < 1400 hp and 250 block value IMO if healers are on their toes, especially considering, as you said, the lack of hit gear in ICC.

That said, I will concede to the fact that hit is rather unimportant barring the first 20 seconds of any given boss fight. With the convenience of Growl (and except for a few taunt-reliant fights where misses could be dangerous), I don't fear for being less-than-capped on hit.