My timing is based not on getting that 1 extra autoattack, we'll call 0.82 close enough to 1, but instead getting more time in which I'm getting more clearcasts in the same period of time. I have not actually done the math to see if this is more likely to get me more dps without sitting at 100 energy due to too many procs, merely that I saw it suggested elsewhere and the theory is sound.
Obviously if I'm demonstrably wrong I'd love to know so I can time mine for better dps.
My timing is based not on getting that 1 extra autoattack, we'll call 0.82 close enough to 1, but instead getting more time in which I'm getting more clearcasts in the same period of time. I have not actually done the math to see if this is more likely to get me more dps without sitting at 100 energy due to too many procs, merely that I saw it suggested elsewhere and the theory is sound.
Obviously if I'm demonstrably wrong I'd love to know so I can time mine for better dps.
I understand what you're trying to say, but a net gain in auto attacks is just a flat higher percentage chance to get clear casting procs. If Omen of Clarity had an internal cooldown, your approach would be the correct way. However, it does bring up the potential problem of having wasted energy by having too many clearcasting procs. Say you get a string of OoC procs or OoC procs before you can use your previous clearcasting. There is also the scenario that you get so many OoC procs that you have energy sitting at 100 for a while. With that in mind, I think using speed potions independently of heroism/bloodlust would be the right choice.
My armory: The World of Warcraft Armory
NOTE: I only obtained 4pc T8.5 last night after downing Yogg and buying my chest, so all WMO reports are with 2pc T7.5 and 2pc T8.5. Will be interesting to see how 4pc T8.5 compares.
I'm mostly tanking these days, but I did manage to get some good dps time in on Assembly hard mode attempts. I'm Agi gemmed and have mongoose on my weapon for tanking. Attempt 19 I believe was a 3% wipe when one of our ranged soakers got gibbed and he healed up to much. I'd post WMO but the raid lead forgot to parse failed attempts, so it just has our normal kill in which I'm tanking.
WWS Log Ulduar heroic first 8 bossesI have to tank most of the time (gotta do your job), but I always DPS in the XT fight. Pulled 9.100 DPS without T8/T7 bonus and I don´t have any Ulduar gear.
I apologize if this has been covered before, but I have not come across the answer in my reading of the various feral DPS threads. I notice that ferals are using [Potion of Speed] (if any potions) in encounters. Is this better DPS increase than [Insane Strength Potion] during Berserk, or is it just cheaper to make? Also, when are ferals generally using Potion of Speed?
i use wild potion of wild magic. it helps you get more CP thus being able to do more damage.
this is one on XT. i am not totaly proud of this one but if i would have stayed alive it would have been great. that and i missed the first heart phase because of range issues World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
i use wild potion of wild magic. it helps you get more CP thus being able to do more damage.
this is one on XT. i am not totaly proud of this one but if i would have stayed alive it would have been great. that and i missed the first heart phase because of range issues World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
500 haste rating is a lot better than 200 crit rating. Hint: more hits on the boss translates to more damage, too.
My own humble parse, XT kill is the one to look at. I tank everything usually, so was pleasantly surprised at my dps, although I clipped SR and dots noticably. ARP gemmed 2pT7/2pT8, rest naxx gear. WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish
Realistically, XT should not be a benchmark encounter for feral dps. The vulnerability phase of the heart heavily skew the numbers, as well as the fact that this vulnerability combined with our one and only major cooldown means that the numbers become even more skewed. There's also the fact that the average raid should be to kill him fast enough so that we can't Berserk twice (assuming you use it on the first heart, which you should). With that in mind, the faster your raid kills him after your first berserk, the closer your average DPS migrates to the 14000-15000 DPS you pull during heart phase.
But I'll be damned if I don't enjoy looking at big numbers though!
Ignis numbers should be the standard around here I think, provided you don't get slag potted.
A recent Ignis attempt of mine. . 95% SR uptime, but slightly low rake and rip uptime. I had a trauma buff. Only T7 level gear with 2pT7, and geared for armor pen. No Grim Toll/Runestone.
Vezax-25 with mangle-bot and forgetting to flask up: Wow Web Stats
I'm convinced I could get close to 7k on him when I get 4T8 (using 2T7/2T8 now).
This makes for an interesting comparison as our kill the other night was two seconds longer than your one. I too didn't flask but had an agility elixir.
I know I made mistakes and the raid was falling apart as we finished him, some comparisons as I was trying to work out where all your bonus Shred's came from. Hopefully this will help some of you new readers understand how to compare yourself to others, I also expect at least a couple of the older posters will be able to find more from this than I am including here as it is 7am.
I had to mangle giving me 35 more mangles than you, or 1225 energy.
You got three more Tiger's Fury in which is another 180 energy.
I made seven more Ferocious Bite's, say 40 energy each is another 280 energy.
You got four more clearcasts than me, assuming all were Shreds that is 168 energy.
Totaling that energy we get 1853 and at 42 energy a Shred that is 44 of them.
You made 112 Shreds while I only got 59, adding the 44 calculated above that brings me to 103 so I am still missing nine.
For this kill I was wearing mostly BiS pre Ulduar gear, so 2pT8 on the head and shoulders with the three ilvl 226 pieces from Maly and Sarth. I did have a [Lotrafen, Spear of the Damned] as an upgrade from Ulduar though.
I can see a few areas I can improve in and I now have 2pT7 and 2pT8 for my DPS set so that will change things up for me, next week I hope to avoid some of the silly mistakes I made this week.
I could go deeper into this but I really need to sleep and pointing out bonus errors to you isn't all that enticing. If there is interest in looking deeper into what went wrong I can have a go at writing that up later.
I'd say the main mistakes was that you didn't keep Rip up 100% (if you did, that would've been more damage than all of those FBs you got off). And since we're just talking 20 seconds worth of Rip here, would've saved you a lot of energy (more so than missing 3 TF).
Edit: Also, those 9 "missing" shreds probably come from me using Shred more in Berserk. The average cost of Shred is less than 42.
I'd say the main mistakes was that you didn't keep Rip up 100% (if you did, that would've been more damage than all of those FBs you got off). And since we're just talking 20 seconds worth of Rip here, would've saved you a lot of energy (more so than missing 3 TF).
Edit: Also, those 9 "missing" shreds probably come from me using Shred more in Berserk. The average cost of Shred is less than 42.
Neither of us had a 100% Rip uptime, yours is listed as 84% and mine as 89%. Not quite sure how WWS is coming up with those numbers though as going by number of ticks you had 406 seconds in a 439 second fight (92%), mine was 392 in a 441 second fight (89%).
So I only had seven less Rip ticks than you.
My average rip tick is 3780, so that is 26457 damage. I had 73829 more damage from Ferocious Bite than you.
So it isn't just less Rip uptime.
Your average Rip tick is 4060, significantly more than mine. Given that my average hits for all other attacks except Shred are slightly higher it should be simple to work out another mistake I made now. I am going to take a guess that you were using the [Idol of the Ravenous Beast] which would explain your higher Shred's but not the Rip tick differences. Maybe just RNG as I had higher max Shred?
Looking at my buffs and debuffs tab you will find Primal Wrath as a buff I had with an uptime of 94% and applied 37 times, that is the same amount of times I cast Mangle. Yep I had the wrong idol equipped.
Just staying with the averages for Rip ticks I lost around 55k damage from the wrong idol, this is only a rough estimate as the 153 agility from [Idol of the Corruptor] does provide some damage to my Rips from at AP and higher crit rate.
None of this really explains the disparity between the number of Shred's, I also Shred as much as I can during Berserk and often well past five combo points as everything else is up. I would have had to refresh Mangle during each Berserk too so maybe that is enough of a difference.
Neither of us had a 100% Rip uptime, yours is listed as 84% and mine as 89%. Not quite sure how WWS is coming up with those numbers though as going by number of ticks you had 406 seconds in a 439 second fight (92%), mine was 392 in a 441 second fight (89%).
So I only had seven less Rip ticks than you.
My average rip tick is 3780, so that is 26457 damage. I had 73829 more damage from Ferocious Bite than you.
So it isn't just less Rip uptime.
You're right. I'm just not used to DoTs criting so I only counted the normal hits. I do use the Rip Idol, so me doing higher shreds is probably just due a difference in ArPen.
I do have another parse Wow Web Stats - it's not a kill attempt (healers forgot to heal our warrior so I had to take over next tries). I believe I was still gemming AGI at this time.
Even without Bloodlust I did 1 Shred every 6 seconds while being the manglebot (compared to 1 every 3.8 seconds without being manglebot). You're doing a shred every 7.5 seconds.
If only WWS could display a chart of how much energy you spent on each skill, and the DPE of them. Would be nice to have.
"So low" compared to what? Your dps seems apropriate to your gear.
Few suggestions:
- ArP soft cap for Grim Toll is 609 (or 569 if you are always using +40 ArP food), use gems to get to that value (legs & feet).
- Use Potions of Speed - one just before the pull, one somewhere in combat. I tend to avoid using it in Berserk / Bloodlust to get the most benefit out of it.
I tend to avoid using it in Berserk / Bloodlust to get the most benefit out of it.
Why would you get more benefit from not using it in Berserk/Bloodlust? Would not using it during Berserk provide more chances for OOC procs, henceforth more shreds? I've had Berserks with lucky RNG on OOC procs where I've been able to spam Shred on every GCD (Except for the one time I had to refresh rake) throughout the entire duration of Berserk, and still ended up with half energy after it was over.
Here are two WMO's from the same reset of Ulduar (And just to stroke E-peen a little, contains the #5 DPS for druids, #3 for Feral on Kologarn; as well as #17 on XT for druids)
This one is of Ignis. I didn't have Windfury that fight, and I didn't get slag potted once; but I still think I could have done better on it. I just recently started FBing when I had the time for it, but I'm still unsure of it, because there have been times after FBing, where I get gayed by RNG and no crits for all 5 CP's = Everything falling off.
Why would you get more benefit from not using it in Berserk/Bloodlust? Would not using it during Berserk provide more chances for OOC procs, henceforth more shreds? I've had Berserks with lucky RNG on OOC procs where I've been able to spam Shred on every GCD (Except for the one time I had to refresh rake) throughout the entire duration of Berserk, and still ended up with half energy after it was over.
You don't necessarily get more benefit from using Berserk and Bloodlust separately, but you get literally 0 synergy by using them together. If there's a specific burn period on the boss (like the heart phase on Deconstructor) then you'll probably use both for maximal dps increase, but that's just coincidence. On a boss like Ignis with no burn phases you'll get no benefit by timing your Berserk with Bloodlust.
In fact, in certain cases using both together can be bad. If you get too many OOC procs due to Bloodlust and you can't drain your energy during Berserk then you wasted some of your Berserk. Ending up with half energy after Berserk is a bad thing.
Vezax has a 20% slow effect on all melee, so less 'white' damage on him than other bosses.
It was still low compared to other feral druid DPS on that fight.
You don't necessarily get more benefit from using Berserk and Bloodlust separately, but you get literally 0 synergy by using them together. If there's a specific burn period on the boss (like the heart phase on Deconstructor) then you'll probably use both for maximal dps increase, but that's just coincidence. On a boss like Ignis with no burn phases you'll get no benefit by timing your Berserk with Bloodlust.
In fact, in certain cases using both together can be bad. If you get too many OOC procs due to Bloodlust and you can't drain your energy during Berserk then you wasted some of your Berserk. Ending up with half energy after Berserk is a bad thing.
What I was asking was why use speed pots independant of either cooldown? Not using Lust/Berserk at the same time. He said "I avoid using speed pots in Bloodlust/Berserk to get the most benefit out of it"
@Talanik - There's a feeling that some of us have that you want to separate your haste periods to avoid energy saturation due to the extra OOC procs. The same reasoning holds for separating your berserk from either haste period.
Originally Posted by JamesVZ
Yes but you can't guarantee that every 10 man raid would have Party Grenades available right now, so giving this effect to Disco Priests I think is a worthwhile endeavor.
What I was asking was why use speed pots independant of either cooldown? Not using Lust/Berserk at the same time. He said "I avoid using speed pots in Bloodlust/Berserk to get the most benefit out of it"
Ok, I misread your question. Actually, it's optimal to time your speed pot with Bloodlust due to the fact that haste effects stack multiplicatively. The math is here if you're interested: Cat WWS Thread
As long as you aren't Berserking at the same time I wouldn't worry about capping your energy. Unless you were pooling to 80+ energy and then got a lucky streak of 3+ OOC procs you can stay under 100 pretty easily.
@Talanik - There's a feeling that some of us have that you want to separate your haste periods to avoid energy saturation due to the extra OOC procs. The same reasoning holds for separating your berserk from either haste period.
This is certainly a possibility, and one that I considered before, but in practice I find that it very rarely happens. Hodir on the other hand, while standing in a moonbeam while lusted and popping a speed potion, I found that I could replicate such an effect, but even then it's less than a quarter of the time. So while the possibility is there, the numbers and reality actually support the practice of speed potting during a bloodlust. The real question to be answered is whether it's worth it to use a speed potion during a bloodlust and berserk on vulnerability phases or whether to just save it for later or if you happen to find yourself falling behind on your rotation (word used loosely).
05/17/09, 4:15 AM
