Hello,

I've been trying to compare my dps to others on wow meter to see where im going wrong. There is one thing i don't understand from the figures. If I compare my xt fight to say Boevis's one which is in the top 20 and others in the top 20 too I see that they are all critting 100% on the rips and the rip ticks are way higher than mine. I might be missing something easy here not sure. My gear is ok and my percentage dmg of different abilities suggests that the rotation is not far off. Here are the two I'm comparing :-
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay

Anyone know why this is?
My dps is low coz I also got to kill the scrapbots but 9k dps was my max i think so don't know where im going wrong.

You are comparing 3 minute fight (boevis') with a 5 minute fight (your). Generally, the shorter the fight is, the more relative benefit (read: DPS) you get from once-per-fight buffs like bloodlust/speed/berserk.

On top of that, XT normal mod is special. If you have enough raid dps, you can enter another heart phase immediately after the previous one ends. That's what likely happened on Boevis' kill. On your kill, you spend too much time outside of the heart phases which has a great impact on your dps. In this case, even using Berserk second time does not help you more than 75%->0% nonstop heart phase.

XT-002 is much like Heigan (and every other "phase" fight) but to a rather extreme. Every fight in ulduar compounds everything you do, whether it be good or bad. As Gurrshael said, being able to chain hearts makes so much more difference than anything else. XT isn't a very good fight for comparison for this reason.

There are a few other notable differences. First of all, My gear at the time is rated 275 DPS higher by Rawr (2t7/2t8 with offset legs, shoulders are one of the worst slots you can offset atm). You only used TF 7 times in a 5 minute fight, while I used it 6 times in 3 minutes, that's a hell of a difference in free energy per second. Your spec skips FS for full points in FA/FI , and while I can't determine the duration of your movement, you did move twice (swiping adds, and light bomb) so you lost some dps from that. We both had a "mangle-bot" but you still mangled 14 times (6 more than me), with the duration of Trauma from warriors, that should have never been needed unless you were mangling the scrap bots either way this is a large DPS loss. Lastly, you had 17 seconds of SR downtime compared to my 8.

In short, TF more, don't Mangle when the 2 warriors should be doing it, let ranged kill the Adds, and lastly try to keep SR up more.

Thanks for the replies.

I can see now from the real time graph how getting 3 hearts straight after each other increases the avg dps in this fight.

With TF being low. the problem I get here is that I start the fight with my opening rotation and use TF. then when TF comes off cd I wait until the heart comes out to use it again just before beserk as I don't want it to be on cd during heart phase. I need to sort out the timings better.

With mangle i try not to mangle but here one warrior was not specced for trauma (was his first raid with us, he is specced now) and the other went to tank the pummelers at the end because 1 tank died. I think anyway because i saw mangle drop off my buff bar.

I'm going to change my spec to include FS for the sake of FA. I like FI too much for the swipe.

With SR I am definately slacking here thanks for pointing it out

First Heart phase begins at 75% of XT's health, you can easily wait few seconds before that and pool you energy. That way, you'l begin with full energy bar and won't need to use TF at the beginning. You will then probably use TF once your berserk is over (still in the heart phase).

Hi all, I wanted to wade in and share some of my Stats to be looked at. I'll link some efforts from yesterday, the first is our Ulduar 10 man run and then a 25 man normal run, skipping the optionals ( thats for monday).

Currently wearing 2t7.5 and 2t8 fully Gemmed for Ar Pen and wearing the Shred idol. Though i forgot to switch idols for Kologarn this week sadly.

Here is the 10 man progress - World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

And here's 25 - World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Our 25 man Hodir and vezax kills were simply awful yesterday, both took a lot longer than they normally would.

I'm Rawhide of Mazrigos, My armory will likely show me in healing gear as I tend to stay in tree spec when I'm not in raids, odd I know, but it feels safer on a pvp realm.

I use the recommended rotation, but i do favor 5pt SR's if i can get away with it.

Any harsh analysys would be welcome.

First suggestion is to have a think about what affects your DPS and look to see if anything is missing.

I have no idea how your guild runs raids or how seriously you treat things, if I was to make an educated guess I would say you are pretty laid back and casual about it. Whether that is or isn't the case you should probably have a chat with your fellow raiders about who's doing what.
Simply put your DPS was low on this attempt because your raid failed at sorting out major buffs and debuffs.

Looking at General Vezax's debuffs, I see no Sunder armor or Expose armor. There was also only one application of Demoralising Shout on the boss. It shows your Rip uptime as 69% but seems to have bugged out on Rake uptime, rough maths puts it as 333/435 seconds. Heart of the Crusader only had a 32% uptime.
Moving to your buffs you can see that your flask ran out mid attempt leaving you with a 67% uptime on it, Horn of Winter had a 50% uptime although a SoE totem might have been up the rest of the time, it is hard to tell. Looking at your shaman's totem choices I am confused so I will leave that for you to sort out.

I think that is enough of a start for you to know what to go looking for now and I need to sleep. Consider uploading the logs to World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis too, you can view uptimes of your buffs and debuffs as a graph on that as explained in a previous post by me.

Our best attempt last night at XT hard mode, wiping a while into the enrage with about 310k left to go, i.e. ~.8%:
Wow Web Stats

Obviously several members of our raid were underperforming, and we lacked debuffs without either an elemental shaman or a boomkin. I am gemmed for ArPen, logged out in dps gear and spec'd slightly outside the min/max due mostly to the occasional 10-man where the IW debuff seems useful and the fact that I still believe in ILOTP, though I'd love to see a good argument against. See my post in the Feral Questions thread for my exact step-by-step process of entering the first Heart Phase.

1. All the ferals screwed up hard on not getting FFF up on the Heart very much last night, but that's all I've identified so far.
2. I'm thinking the early Rebirth/Lifebloom I tossed, plus Light/Gravity Bombs/Innervate usage does not fully account for the 89% SR uptime I had, so I guess that's one area I can clearly improve.
3. I'm thinking Wow Web Stats - the debuffs up on the Heart had a lot to do with our overdose of FAIL last night, but unfortunately I'm not knowledgeable enough about these things to identify the easy-to-solve issues. Help?

Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated, whether constructive criticism of myself or others. Even a "You're terribad, go read this!" comment would probably help.

Actually, I prefer to look at this URL: Wow Web Stats (custom split to when he enraged). It shows that 6 people died. If people die they will lose quite a bit of dps even if they are resed, especially since DPSers need to rebuff them. Rebirth and not applying PW:Fortitude spells disaster for some classes.

XT-002 Deconstructor melee swing hits Pröteq for 39205 Physical ...
Ledd died from no heals during tantrum (max health wouldn't help!)
Gravimaer died during tantrum because you couldn't kill the life spark in time
Drobeis died because he got hit by searing light 3 times by Pröteq right before tantrum
Troops used Divine Sacrifice without bubble during tantrum
Selerae died from tantrum

I would recommend killing the life sparks in another way, however... Melee can burst them down a lot quicker, and you even apply sunder to them. Having sparks alive during tantrum is what I think is killing your dps off. Your own DPS seemed fine, maybe go easy on FB to make sure you keep up SR. Your FB is 6% of total dmg, SR is 90%, which means only a 2.7% DPS gain from using FB - I bet shred would do more total damage for that energy spent. But my post is more about the strategy you're using. I really prefer melee killing sparks, and it does result in a very different rotation for ferals.


White is where we dump life sparks (melee just turns around and presses their i-win-button). Gray is for gravity bombs. Wow Web Stats to compare DPS, though we didn't use any kitty. And yes, we do stack the entire raid in 2 groups.

We are getting way off the topic of Cat WWS parses now.

Honestly Coldbear you know what you need to do to beat it, tweaking your personal DPS isn't going to make the difference.
Until the rest of your raid decides they want to play well and be part of the non-suck team you will be beating your head against things like this until it gets to you so much you quit playing or find a different raid. Been there and done that.

Halmmar's split is good to look at, from that I extracted this part which is only the heart phase on that attempt. The hunter dying on the pull is pretty embarrassing for him, I hope you all gave him a good stirring for it.
Everyone from 14th down to the tanks needs to lift their game, on the heart Lystre only just beat the tank!

Here is our last kill, not our fastest or cleanest but that is what happens when you take people along to gear up and/or learn the fights.
We use one tank and he grabs the sparks and calls for ranged to blow it up when he thinks he has enough threat for them to kill it before it gets to the ranged camp. They spawn every 16 seconds with an additional 8 seconds every fourth because of Tantrum, that means that two hunters can cover a Misdirection on each spawn.

I'm quite envious that Halmmar gets Hysteria. I can only imagine the glorious XT parses I would have.
Here's one of mine for comparison

Depends on how much Rip uptime you lose; your average FB damage was ~12500, which is around 4 ticks of Rip. That means that in a given instance, if Rip was down for more than 8 seconds, you were losing DPS by FBing; else, you were gaining.

Actually its even closer than that, since each of those rip ticks is a potential clearcasted shred and crits also reduce the tick count. It seems likely to be a push most often, and a loss as often as a win but both for relatively small values.

There's no possibly proc combination that makes it worth FBing instead of ripping if rip isn't up.

Here is a link to my DPS on general.

Wow Web Stats-general


My 6.4k dps seems rather low if i compare it to other feral druids here. Is there anything you can get out of this wws how i could improve my dps? I saw that 89% uptime on SR isnt good enough, so thats something to work on. Any other suggestions?

You were missing Windfury/Icy Talons, which isn't much on its own but it cancels out Vezax's -20% haste aura.

Also, higher SR uptime is a must.

Thats all I can really tell from WWS. I find that WWS doesn't give as much detailed information as Wow Meter Online or World of Logs

Yeah, im trying to get t8.5 gloves, and then get [Winter's Icy Embrace]. Which would end up in gettin the softcap on arp and gettin around 23 exp. But does it make that big of a diffrence? Not bein exp cap'd.

Yes it does. It was one of those stats that was implemented to balance out gear and what not. Being Hit Capped and Expertise capped really helps on longer fights and during short applied buffs.

Hitting the softcap for Armor Penetration makes this semi hard, but thankfully we have talents which will add 10 expertise if your gear is lacking.

This is iffy at best. General theorycraft points to expertise/hit caps not being particularly important, though if you have none at all your rotation will be very annoying indeed - but "You must be hit/expertise capped" is wrong.

Being over the hit cap by a fair amount will cost you a lot of DPS; generally it's worth losing an "item level tier" (13 ilvls or thereabouts) to keep yourself at or under hit/expertise caps so those stats aren't being wasted; it would generally be better to use e.g. [Stalk-Skin Belt] than [Relic Hunter's Cord] if the hit rating isn't being used. You can use Rawr or a similar program to test specific cases.

A more certain way of knowing is to make yourself a spreadsheet and then plug in the stat values and calculate how many points an item has. Then just subtract however much hit or exp you have above cap, and see which item comes out with the most "points".

Or just do some napkin math with a calculator, that works too.

Here is a WWS of our guilds Algalon 25 attempts tonight, we have killed him in 10 before so most are aware whats going on. Our overall dps is lower than on some other bosses (Ignis for example) however, I would like to know where I can improve and if what I am doing is more or less correct, I do think with some tweaks I could be doing a little more dps.

http://wowwebstats.com/u6rnnwkwxhscm

Thanks!

Here is a WOL for Hardmode XT (Our second kill). DPS has gotten harder now that all the warriors have switched to fury.
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

DPS: 6966.8
SR Uptime: 96.3 %
Mangle Uptime: 90.5 %
Rip Uptime: 88.6 %
Rake Uptime: 70.5 %

Long fight--kill was 11 seconds before enrage.
1 Light bomb (dropped all buffs then)
3 Hysterias. Interesting that they all lined up with bezerk unintentionally. Lined up the first, use on cooldown.

Armor Pen gemmed to the soft cap + grim toll.
Mostly UD25 gear; nothing from 25 man hardmodes or ToC.
I was using a ArP elixir and +AP food instead of a flask.
Using Power Auras and BadKitty

I think I might be too conservative with the FBs, I only did 9 (about 1 per minute) and felt like I was often bleeding off energy at 5 combos. Rake uptime is also pretty bad.