Cat WWS Thread - Page 7

Singharz · 06/29/09, 3:14 PM

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Really tried to push my dps last night (against Ignis 10-man). 93'% SR but my RIP uptime is really awful. I think I don't have the time to recover after a FB finisher. Maybe I should just try to keep RIP up instead?

Melador · 06/29/09, 5:48 PM

I've recently switched my offspec from moonkin to feral, and think I have the gist of what to do when, but I'd like to practice some to really get comfortable - there's definitely a lot to keep an eye on!

So, kind of an odd request: any experienced cats have any logs of themselves unbuffed versus a practice dummy, or any guidelines for a general window of dps that you'd expect vs a dummy with mostly Ulduar-level gear?

nse360 · 06/29/09, 5:57 PM

Originally Posted by Supahflii

Heroic General Kill a couple nights ago:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

It really seems like I'm doing low DPS for my gear level, IDK. If anyone could kindly look at the log and see if I'm making any grave mistakes. The only things I could think of are refresh Rake more, FB less, and clip some Savage Roars/Rips so I can refresh sooner.

Your Rake and Rip uptime are pretty low. Rake should be 90% at the minimum and Rip should be at least 85%.

Other than that the easiest question is: what Idol are you using? You're armory has your resto PvP gear atm, but judging from the fact that Rip did the majority of your damage, I'm guessing the Rip Idol but you should be using the Shred Idol since you aren't using Mangle (if you have over 200 ArP).

Spend some time reading the FeralByNight thread for more help.

Supahflii · 06/30/09, 12:25 AM

IC Hard (server first Horde, lol) :World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

General Hard, 10 man: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Pretty embarrassing on General.. Rip uptimes are so horrible, it seems like every 7+ seconds of Rip that are left, and I FB, I never get enough clearcasting/crits to refresh the rip right away. Mangle was just on the switch to the Saronite Animus. Active time on IC was a little low because I spaced out when one of the adds was adjusted to not be in a rune of power, but I think I did pretty well on the fight overall, beat the next closest on damage to Steelbreaker by about 30k.

TimeOut · 06/30/09, 2:58 AM

Our first hour at Algalon 25 yesterday, third try:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

The other fights in the log are not really great, mostly quick aborts because someone died to Cosmic Smash or some other random nonsense. I know that Algalon is not a good fight for comparison so far, but it is the most recent log.

I seem to have some really bad Rake uptime at around 60%, and Rip is not much better with 76%. Also I have to time my SR combo points better with Big Bang.

Any ideas or hints how I can improve my Rake/Rip uptime? I don't get a Mangle bot and I have no access to Hysteria.

Another report for consideration, our last XT-002 hardmode: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Rake uptime is also really really low at 50% while Rip is at 73%. As usual: No Mangle bot and no Hysteria.
Any comments are appreciated, especially how to "fix" my abysmal Rake uptime.

Inaiwae · 06/30/09, 4:10 AM

Originally Posted by Melador

So, kind of an odd request: any experienced cats have any logs of themselves unbuffed versus a practice dummy, or any guidelines for a general window of dps that you'd expect vs a dummy with mostly Ulduar-level gear?

I have 2t7/2t8, rest mostly ulduar gear, and last time i checked i was doing around 4300 dps on 3min fight (so 1 berserker) unbuffed. I didnt spend much time there and i was a bit disappointed since i was at 4100-4300 even before Ulduar came out. One reason apart from me playing crap could be that after regeming for ArPen i lost quite some crit, and it was hard to keep stuff up the way i am used to in raids with all the buffs.

I have question of my own - with soft arpen cap, is rake uptime important? I have checked my logs and i usually end with rake uptime around 50%.

Nadir_Eonar · 06/30/09, 7:50 AM

Originally Posted by Inaiwae

I have 2t7/2t8, rest mostly ulduar gear, and last time i checked i was doing around 4300 dps on 3min fight (so 1 berserker) unbuffed. I didnt spend much time there and i was a bit disappointed since i was at 4100-4300 even before Ulduar came out. One reason apart from me playing crap could be that after regeming for ArPen i lost quite some crit, and it was hard to keep stuff up the way i am used to in raids with all the buffs.

I have question of my own - with soft arpen cap, is rake uptime important? I have checked my logs and i usually end with rake uptime around 50%.

I believe that rake has better DPE than shred, and as such uptime is very important. Also, don't forget that more rake uptime = more bleed ticks = more clearcast procs from 2T8.

Isambaard · 07/06/09, 6:16 AM

Originally Posted by TimeOut

Rake uptime is also really really low at 50% while Rip is at 73%. As usual: No Mangle bot and no Hysteria.
Any comments are appreciated, especially how to "fix" my abysmal Rake uptime.

Get timers, plan your specials ahead of time to ensure you're going to have the energy to quickly refresh Rake as its about to drop off, and same with Rip. I use NeedToKnow for my timers and I'll prefer refreshing rake during the final second of its count down over having to push it off any amount of time.

I found it helpful have a partner help me with random interruptions on the target dummy to get the hang of picking my rotation back up midstream (usually a warlock or a mage who I could ask to randomly aoe my area so I could react to a visual cue).

Boevis · 07/06/09, 8:16 AM

Originally Posted by Isambaard

... I'll prefer refreshing rake during the final second of its count down over having to push it off any amount of time.
.

I'm not entirely certain what you meant by this, but clipping the last tic of Rake is probably the stupidest thing you can do as a Feral Druid outside not using the right abilities. That last second is when the 3rd tic occurs, if you overwrite, that tic never happens and you're losing ~30% of the damage from your Rip, not to mention an extra chance for clearcast (assuming 2t8).

Higher Rake uptime is good, but not essential. With Glyph of Shred, Shreds 1-3 outperform Rake. More often than not, what's resulting in low DPS is poor recovery from a no-crit string or using FB when you really shouldn't have, FbN (and a lot of cycles I see) really shouldn't be trusted when it comes to FB use, it works off probabilities and when it's wrong, it can cost you big, but when right the payoff is also big, kinda like gambling.

Isambaard · 07/07/09, 1:29 PM

Originally Posted by Boevis

I'm not entirely certain what you meant by this, but clipping the last tic of Rake is probably the stupidest thing you can do as a Feral Druid outside not using the right abilities. That last second is when the 3rd tic occurs, if you overwrite, that tic never happens and you're losing ~30% of the damage from your Rip, not to mention an extra chance for clearcast (assuming 2t8).

I watch my timer and as its entering the final second I pay attention to my SCT and when I see the final tick go off I'll hit rake. Obviously if other more important timers are coming up they'd get priority. If movement requirements are going to take me away from my target for more than 1 tick of rake (i.e. 4+ seconds) then I'd rake early as at worst its a wash and at best I'll be gone 6+ seconds and get a tick I wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

Cymro · 07/17/09, 8:26 AM

Hello,

I've been trying to compare my dps to others on wow meter to see where im going wrong. There is one thing i don't understand from the figures. If I compare my xt fight to say Boevis's one which is in the top 20 and others in the top 20 too I see that they are all critting 100% on the rips and the rip ticks are way higher than mine. I might be missing something easy here not sure. My gear is ok and my percentage dmg of different abilities suggests that the rotation is not far off. Here are the two I'm comparing :-
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay

Anyone know why this is?
My dps is low coz I also got to kill the scrapbots but 9k dps was my max i think so don't know where im going wrong.

Gurrshael · 07/17/09, 6:38 PM

Originally Posted by Cymro

Hello,

I've been trying to compare my dps to others on wow meter to see where im going wrong. There is one thing i don't understand from the figures. If I compare my xt fight to say Boevis's one which is in the top 20 and others in the top 20 too I see that they are all critting 100% on the rips and the rip ticks are way higher than mine. I might be missing something easy here not sure. My gear is ok and my percentage dmg of different abilities suggests that the rotation is not far off. Here are the two I'm comparing :-
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay

Anyone know why this is?
My dps is low coz I also got to kill the scrapbots but 9k dps was my max i think so don't know where im going wrong.

You are comparing 3 minute fight (boevis') with a 5 minute fight (your). Generally, the shorter the fight is, the more relative benefit (read: DPS) you get from once-per-fight buffs like bloodlust/speed/berserk.

On top of that, XT normal mod is special. If you have enough raid dps, you can enter another heart phase immediately after the previous one ends. That's what likely happened on Boevis' kill. On your kill, you spend too much time outside of the heart phases which has a great impact on your dps. In this case, even using Berserk second time does not help you more than 75%->0% nonstop heart phase.

Boevis · 07/18/09, 8:14 PM

XT-002 is much like Heigan (and every other "phase" fight) but to a rather extreme. Every fight in ulduar compounds everything you do, whether it be good or bad. As Gurrshael said, being able to chain hearts makes so much more difference than anything else. XT isn't a very good fight for comparison for this reason.

There are a few other notable differences. First of all, My gear at the time is rated 275 DPS higher by Rawr (2t7/2t8 with offset legs, shoulders are one of the worst slots you can offset atm). You only used TF 7 times in a 5 minute fight, while I used it 6 times in 3 minutes, that's a hell of a difference in free energy per second. Your spec skips FS for full points in FA/FI , and while I can't determine the duration of your movement, you did move twice (swiping adds, and light bomb) so you lost some dps from that. We both had a "mangle-bot" but you still mangled 14 times (6 more than me), with the duration of Trauma from warriors, that should have never been needed unless you were mangling the scrap bots either way this is a large DPS loss. Lastly, you had 17 seconds of SR downtime compared to my 8.

In short, TF more, don't Mangle when the 2 warriors should be doing it, let ranged kill the Adds, and lastly try to keep SR up more.

Cymro · 07/19/09, 10:52 AM

Thanks for the replies.

I can see now from the real time graph how getting 3 hearts straight after each other increases the avg dps in this fight.

With TF being low. the problem I get here is that I start the fight with my opening rotation and use TF. then when TF comes off cd I wait until the heart comes out to use it again just before beserk as I don't want it to be on cd during heart phase. I need to sort out the timings better.

With mangle i try not to mangle but here one warrior was not specced for trauma (was his first raid with us, he is specced now) and the other went to tank the pummelers at the end because 1 tank died. I think anyway because i saw mangle drop off my buff bar.

I'm going to change my spec to include FS for the sake of FA. I like FI too much for the swipe.

With SR I am definately slacking here thanks for pointing it out

Gurrshael · 07/19/09, 1:25 PM

Originally Posted by Cymro

With TF being low. the problem I get here is that I start the fight with my opening rotation and use TF. then when TF comes off cd I wait until the heart comes out to use it again just before beserk as I don't want it to be on cd during heart phase. I need to sort out the timings better.

First Heart phase begins at 75% of XT's health, you can easily wait few seconds before that and pool you energy. That way, you'l begin with full energy bar and won't need to use TF at the beginning. You will then probably use TF once your berserk is over (still in the heart phase).