Yeah, WC has the Idol and 2T9 as having comparable DPS gains (220-230 DPS in my gear). 2T9 also lets you pick up IMF for an additional 70 DPS or so. But still, the Idol is 25 Emblems and 2T9 is 90-150 Emblems and requires you to win two raid drops.
Going off on a tangent with this line of thought, has anyone compared what is the better DPS increase 2T9 or new Idol? It would help to decide what to get first between the new 200 crit idol and 2T9? I have enough badges to get the idol, or I could keep saving for 9.0-9.5 to go for the Tier bonus first.
I picked the 200 crit Idol and I saw a noticeable dps increase. Primarily since eclipse proced more often. The new T9 / 9.5 set bonus looks promising, however I can tell you it would be better to pick up the Idol first.
Last edited by BlackDahliaDruid : 08/14/09 at 6:39 PM.
Yeah, WC has the Idol and 2T9 as having comparable DPS gains (220-230 DPS in my gear). 2T9 also lets you pick up IMF for an additional 70 DPS or so. But still, the Idol is 25 Emblems and 2T9 is 90-150 Emblems and requires you to win two raid drops.
If you take the ilvl232 set you don't even need a raiddrop and can get 2T9 with 60 emblems (gloves+shoulders)
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Out of curiosity, if lets say I have the lunar eclipse proced and either moonfire or insect swarm are down to about a second left, is it better dps to reapply the DoTs then or after casting another starfire, leaving about a second where the DoT won't be up?
Out of curiosity, if lets say I have the lunar eclipse proced and either moonfire or insect swarm are down to about a second left, is it better dps to reapply the DoTs then or after casting another starfire, leaving about a second where the DoT won't be up?
Cast another spell and then reapply; don't clip the DoT's.
Another question about those DoTs, what if they expire at the beginning or in the middle of eclipse? The intro mentions if they run out during the last few seconds, but I often have them run out just as eclipse starts or whatever. I'm guessing you keep spamming whatever eclipse says to and ignore DoTs but just making sure.
Also, I'm wondering if people are having any mana troubles at the moment? Can't decide between intensity or improved insect swarm. I'm a big hurricane user so I thought intensity might be beneficial, then again on regular boss fights with proper innervate usage I probably shouldn't need all that mana. I'm not quite sure what to do there.
Finally one last thing, if your gear brings you way over the hit cap, is Improved Faerie Fire/Balance of Power still worth it over something like Improved Insect Swarm?
Another question about those DoTs, what if they expire at the beginning or in the middle of eclipse? The intro mentions if they run out during the last few seconds, but I often have them run out just as eclipse starts or whatever. I'm guessing you keep spamming whatever eclipse says to and ignore DoTs but just making sure.
Also, I'm wondering if people are having any mana troubles at the moment? Can't decide between intensity or improved insect swarm. I'm a big hurricane user so I thought intensity might be beneficial, then again on regular boss fights with proper innervate usage I probably shouldn't need all that mana. I'm not quite sure what to do there.
Finally one last thing, if your gear brings you way over the hit cap, is Improved Faerie Fire/Balance of Power still worth it over something like Improved Insect Swarm?
1) This has been answered at least once on almost every page of this thread. My favorite answer is that it doesn't particularly matter any more - there are a few points that are particularly *good* for reposting dots, but the 100% rotation seems to be pretty well a match for any other, and very easy to perform (100% uptime - put them back up just after they fall off). I've seen good arguments to not refresh moonfire near the beginning of the solar part of your cycle, since the dpet of an unextended one isn't as good; maybe that's what you're looking for?
2) No, but I'll let someone else answer that - I haven't looked into any theory, since I haven't had a problem.
3) If your gear brings you 'way over the hit cap', you're in the wrong gear. 2% hit for one talent point is very good, it's worth it to find gear that lets you keep the talent. Of course, if the gear you're in does put you more than 2% over, drop a point till you can replace the gear.
The soft haste cap is the point at which your GCD hits the 1 second minimum with Nature's Grace up. With Improved Moonkin Form, Celestial Focus, and Wrath of Air Totem, this occurs at 401 haste rating. Missing WoA, it's 585.
I was wondering what the soft haste cap would be without Celestial Focus. I have a ton of haste on my gear and I could swap my [Abyssal Rune] with my [Sundial of the Exiled] if I needed to get more haste for the soft hit cap.. Thanks.
1) This has been answered at least once on almost every page of this thread. My favorite answer is that it doesn't particularly matter any more - there are a few points that are particularly *good* for reposting dots, but the 100% rotation seems to be pretty well a match for any other, and very easy to perform (100% uptime - put them back up just after they fall off). I've seen good arguments to not refresh moonfire near the beginning of the solar part of your cycle, since the dpet of an unextended one isn't as good; maybe that's what you're looking for?
2) No, but I'll let someone else answer that - I haven't looked into any theory, since I haven't had a problem.
3) If your gear brings you 'way over the hit cap', you're in the wrong gear. 2% hit for one talent point is very good, it's worth it to find gear that lets you keep the talent. Of course, if the gear you're in does put you more than 2% over, drop a point till you can replace the gear.
1) I'm not quite sure what you mean by "but the 100% rotation seems to be pretty well a match for any other, and very easy to perform". Keeping dots up 100% of the time works well regardless of whether you have eclipse or not?
3) Well a person in my guild has over 300 hit rating with a lot of resto gear, so it seems like a fully decked out boomkin would easily go over the hit cap. So you wouldn't get rid of improved faerie fire, you'd get rid of balance of power?
1) I'm not quite sure what you mean by "but the 100% rotation seems to be pretty well a match for any other, and very easy to perform". Keeping dots up 100% of the time works well regardless of whether you have eclipse or not?
3) Well a person in my guild has over 300 hit rating with a lot of resto gear, so it seems like a fully decked out boomkin would easily go over the hit cap. So you wouldn't get rid of improved faerie fire, you'd get rid of balance of power?
In an ideal world, you run with Eclipse up all of the time. Because Eclipse is always up, you can refresh DoTs after they expire. There is maybe one or two points where that's not optimal, but it's not a big DPS difference for beginner Moonkinery.
If your Resto has over 300 hit rating, they need to equip some Resto items for the +hit items. Have them use Rawr or some other user-friendly simulation program to identify the best items to equip. Never, ever, ever, ever get rid of iFF or Balance of Power. Those talents are much better than almost anything else in the Balance tree.
1) I'm not quite sure what you mean by "but the 100% rotation seems to be pretty well a match for any other, and very easy to perform". Keeping dots up 100% of the time works well regardless of whether you have eclipse or not?
3) Well a person in my guild has over 300 hit rating with a lot of resto gear, so it seems like a fully decked out boomkin would easily go over the hit cap. So you wouldn't get rid of improved faerie fire, you'd get rid of balance of power?
I worded the first part awkwardly, I suppose. What I was saying is that, of the various approaches to when to put up moonfire and insect swarm, there isn't a clear winner; and 'put them up the first chance you get after they fall off' is the simplest of those approaches. Things obviously change in any fight with motion, which is most fights.
The 'person in your guild' is mostly likely wearing some of the craftable cloth - that stuff is *stacked* with hit rating. There is plenty of gear available that has other stats on it, and you should be getting that instead. You have choices on every slot, and you should keep pieces of gear with different amounts of hit on it, because every time you get an upgrade, you'll need to shuffle pieces around until you aren't wasting stats. If you 50-60 extra hit rating, you might as well put blue gear on in the slot with the most hit - that's how much ilevel you're wasting. Dropping a point in Balance of Power is not a solution to that problem, since there is no comparable talent to put the extra point into.
"It seems like a fully decked out boomkin would easily go over the hit cap." Oh, easily, if she wanted to. You get to choose your gear though, so that generally doesn't happen.
I think it works this way:
When you do an action (A2) in the "Red Zone", in doesn't affect the previous action (A1), because when A2 reachs the server, A1 has been completed, this means that you can Cancel the Eclipse buff in the red zone with no effect in the current casting spell.
This way, although you have removed the Lunar Eclipse from the client, in the server, when proccesing the spell, it will count the buff, but when all the information from the spell is returned to your client (damage, school, crit or not, origin, target) you don't have the eclipse buff, so you can gain the Solar Eclipse. In the ms of the latency you have accomplished to use the Lunar buff to proc the Solar buff.
I can't prove you it works this way, but when a program must be fast, the least communication between the client and the server, the better, and this way is the one that has fewer packages sent/received.
Another thing to have in mind is:
If you use cancelunitbuff in the red zone, does it affect to the spell?
In the Starfire is very difficult to calculate, due to the RNG, but doing so in the Solar part is very easy, because the RNG can be ignored (2pT8 is helpful). My calculations have made me think that cancelunitbuff in the red zone doesn't affect the spell that is being cast.
Also, I've made an addon that gets rid of this issue thanks to the small gap between the time the client raises UNIT_SPELLCAST_SUCCEEDED and the time it receives the information of that spell (It uses some parts of the macros Arawethion made), you can download it from: 4shared.com - online file sharing and storage - download WiseEclipsev1.0.2.rar
e: bad formatting, last version uploaded
"It seems like a fully decked out boomkin would easily go over the hit cap." Oh, easily, if she wanted to. You get to choose your gear though, so that generally doesn't happen.
At one time I had a slight problem with my gear, winding up with too much +hit. If I took my hit gear off, I also lost spellpower because the hit items were just higher item level, more SP, etc. I decided to try re-speccing without the IFF and BoP, and from using the new spec with ~420 hit from gear...my average DPS seemed to suffer for the next week (dropped by around 3-500). I rebalanced my gear and respecced, once again taking the hit talents. After adding a few conquest upgrades and more haste, I'm happy to say I not only regained the 3 to 500 DPS I had lost, but added another 4 to 500 onto that. Moral of the story: Balance of Power and Improved Faerie Fire are must have.
Also, thanks to OP for update about erroneous Balance of Power tooltip...had almost rebalanced my gear prematurely!
Question about relics:
My 2 relics are.
1. the one that gives wrath spellpower by 70
2. The one that increase IS spellpower på 370ish
According to Rawr no1 gives me the best dps-increase, but I cant decide what one to use.
Regardless of the best relic above should I still go for the valor token relic that provides starfire spell power? (Idol of the Shooting Star) Ofc, Im gonna get the triumph one (Idol of Lunar Fury), but thats a long term item.
Question about relics:
My 2 relics are.
1. the one that gives wrath spellpower by 70
2. The one that increase IS spellpower på 370ish
According to Rawr no1 gives me the best dps-increase, but I cant decide what one to use.
Regardless of the best relic above should I still go for the valor token relic that provides starfire spell power? (Idol of the Shooting Star) Ofc, Im gonna get the triumph one (Idol of Lunar Fury), but thats a long term item.
Do the heroic daily each day and it's by no stretch of the imagination a 'long term item', if you can raid some ToC 10man easymode too then you're looking at 9 per week from that too! (as the boss availability currently stands).
If you're flooded in conquest badges like I seem to be, trade them in for the Shooting Star - but if not, stick with the Wrath one till' you get the 25 triumph.
Yeah, WC has the Idol and 2T9 as having comparable DPS gains (220-230 DPS in my gear). 2T9 also lets you pick up IMF for an additional 70 DPS or so. But still, the Idol is 25 Emblems and 2T9 is 90-150 Emblems and requires you to win two raid drops.
While my gear is nowhere as strong as yours, I'm curious to know how you have the Idol giving you a 220-230 DPS gain. I tried modelling it in Rawr as a straight 180 crit rating (just assuming a 90% uptime), and it spat out ~175 DPS, compared to the ~60 DPS from the Idol of the Shooting Star. That's only a 115 DPS increase, which, even when accounting for gear level discrepancy, I find it hard to believe it's worth about double for you as it is for me.
While my gear is nowhere as strong as yours, I'm curious to know how you have the Idol giving you a 220-230 DPS gain. I tried modelling it in Rawr as a straight 180 crit rating (just assuming a 90% uptime), and it spat out ~175 DPS, compared to the ~60 DPS from the Idol of the Shooting Star. That's only a 115 DPS increase, which, even when accounting for gear level discrepancy, I find it hard to believe it's worth about double for you as it is for me.
I may have forgotten to subtract off the Shooting Star DPS. Also, I modeled Lunar Fury at 100% uptime. And the gear does make a difference--Lunar Fury scales a lot better than Shooting Star giving our large spellpower gains from tier to tier.
I may have forgotten to subtract off the Shooting Star DPS. Also, I modeled Lunar Fury at 100% uptime. And the gear does make a difference--Lunar Fury scales a lot better than Shooting Star giving our large spellpower gains from tier to tier.
This. I modeled Lunar Fury as a 70% chance on Moonfire tick with no ICD. At a T8-10 man level of gear, Shooting Star outperforms Lunar Fury. With Conqueror's T8 and at least Triumph T9 (ilevel 245) and a comparable level of gear across the board, Lunar Fury nearly doubles in effectiveness, about half again as powerful as Shooting Star.
I just tried opening the spreadsheet on my new computer and I got the circular reference error that someone else had mentioned earlier. How odd--it kept working fine on my old machine when I upgraded from Excel 2004 to 2008, but on this new one with Excel 2008 I get the error. It's in the data tables only--the DPS computation works fine if you click through the errors. Not sure why only some of the tables are being weird though.
I just tried opening the spreadsheet on my new computer and I got the circular reference error that someone else had mentioned earlier. How odd--it kept working fine on my old machine when I upgraded from Excel 2004 to 2008, but on this new one with Excel 2008 I get the error. It's in the data tables only--the DPS computation works fine if you click through the errors. Not sure why only some of the tables are being weird though.
Speaking of, spawned by a convo from a couple days ago I decided to add scaling data for individual spells to the Rotations page. I added it into the version you link at the top of this thread, it's attached here.
Ok, it works fine again for me after updating to Office 12.2. Added a new version to the OP with your addition and minor change from me. The only issue really is AUGH TABLES--Excel recalculates all tables in all open workbooks whenever you edit anything, and there are over 100 tables now.
Ok, it works fine again for me after updating to Office 12.2. Added a new version to the OP with your addition and minor change from me. The only issue really is AUGH TABLES--Excel recalculates all tables in all open workbooks whenever you edit anything, and there are over 100 tables now.
Yeah. I was toying with an idea of turning off scaling generation, but I'm not sure how to do that. It would allow you to significantly speed up the sheet while you're changing values.
08/14/09, 6:31 PM
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