Three questions:

1. Quick question regarding 3.2: I see that we haven't made any major changes regarding spell rotation for 3.2 (yet?), despite the changes to Eclipse. Is that likely to change our style of play at all? I'm trying to wrap my head around a dual lunar/solar rotation (wrath>eclipse>starfire>lunar eclipse cooldown>more starfire>solar eclipse>wrath>solar eclipse cooldown>rinse and repeat?). My understanding is that eclipse cooldowns are now independent of each other, but you can't have both eclipses proc simultaneously.

2. I, too, am suffering from lack of DPS versus perfect models (despite having the recommended spec, being hit capped, etc.). I've experimented with keeping IS/MF up continually regardless of proc, continually minus the actual eclipse duration, or just as described in the "you have the starfire glyph" section of the OP. Some of my gear is dual-purpose with resto. Could just be that I'm fat-fingering things - I'll have to run WWS to dig around in more detail - but is it possible to have too LITTLE crit to stack spellpower?

I'm in all epics, but there are times when it seems like I'm wrathing forever before eclipse procs - long enough for both IS and MF to need refreshing despite being reapplied just before eclipse cooldown expired, for example. Totally unbuffed (including no moonkin aura), I armory at just 12.64% crit, which is trending out to about 22% 10-man raid buffed. The World of Warcraft Armory

3. Will the eclipse changes in 3.2 change the optimal times to reapply DoTs?

Thanks for any insights.

[Edit: typo.]

Hi there!
My apologies for this very noob question but I'm tring to figure how the next patch will changes my little moonkin (I've Lunar equip so i'm afraid I will have to change drammatically it for I think a Solar equip, if i've understood correctly, cause my crit rating sucks) and I'ven't get one thing:

Do you mean which I've to softcap Haste and after I've to continue with Spellpower>Crit>Haste, like a Solar equip, or I've to forget ever the softcapping of Haste, like Hit>Spellpower>Crit>Haste?

I ask this question cause the build-for-noob recommended seems to me - and surely it's a my mistake - missing some strong mana-talent to compensate a Solar rotation that's more mana-expensive of a Lunar's one (ok with a good crit rating, Moonkin Form mana regen is more powerfull but is it enough for a Solar rotation?).

Thanks for answers and, another time, sorry for the dumb question ^_^"

It was stated in previous post, Haste to softcap is the 2nd priority after being hit capped. Then just stack spell power as much as possible, favor crit gear over haste gear after softcap.

I still don't see how haste to softcap is outdoing spell power on 3.2 models.

Check the WC version I've currently attached to the OP. "Outdoing" might be a bit misleading I guess, since they're nearly equal but spellpower is slightly cheaper.

There's nothing counterintuitive about it though. The only relevant thing changing in 3.2 is that we'll be casting Wrath more often. But pre-cap, haste affects Wrath just as much as it affects everything else, so you wouldn't expect the pre-cap value of haste to change at all. The post-cap value of haste does decrease, since NG'd Wraths no longer get any benefit and you're casting them more than you do in 3.1.

For chain casting Wrath, you are under NG if any of the previous three Wraths crit. At 45% crit there is only a (100%-(100%-45%)^3) = 16.6% chance that none of the previous three casts were a crit. That also assumes that 2t9 does not proc Nature's Grace.

Note that in that neighborhood, 1% crit provides about as much speedup (to Wrath spam) as 1% haste does (assuming you are just at the soft cap).

1% haste is a 1% speedup to 16.6% of your casts (roughly a 0.17% overall speedup).
1% crit changes that 16.6% to 15.7%. That means it s a 20% speedup to 0.9% of your casts (roughly a 0.18% overall speedup).

I think that "25%" assumption requires encounters that don't support much wrath-spam at all. That is certainly plausible. You may have encounters where movement or Hurricane limit your wrath-spam. However, most of the existing theorycraft looks at PW fights, and in a 3.2 PW fight, that 25% estimate is too low.

Your forgetting one thing: what happens if the 4th, 5th, and 6th wraths dont crit ect? The Sum of that total string is ~37%. If you did cast 1000 wraths in a row, roughly 37~ would not be under NG with 45% crit rate. Dots/movement would modify such values, as well as any starfires do to reaction times that dont count after the one that procs eclipse. Though yes, the crit value would effect the total sum quite significantly. I am just wondering how each will scale below and above any theoretical crit value.

I wont argue that yes, crit is better for solar, but haste>crit for the lunar part.
How I got roughly 25% is basically assuming refreshing IS early during the solar eclipse will happen occaisonally and will cut into NG uptime, lengthening that 37% basemark. if ~55% of the nuke casting is starfire, vs 45% wrath, that would be a value of 50-63% NG*45% of nuke casting. Movement, a starfire after the one that procced also i figure will happen somewhat, further pushing that value up. 50% was just a "guess", that is easy to work with, it could be 40 or 45% with a 45% raid buffed crit rate (3% crit debuff, 5% crit debuff, 5% boomkin, 7% talents, 25% base from crit rating/int).


note: I am just asking a few questions so that I might better understand this. These "figures" are merely shallow insights that I am pondering over. I dont understand all of the figures stated in previous pages, this was just a contemplation with "a touch" of math. I spent less then 5 mins on those numbers.

What the fuck? You're asking what happens if SPELLS YOU HAVEN'T CAST YET don't crit? What does that have to do with anything? Here's the only issue at stake:

You are casting a spell.
You either have NG or you don't.
If you have NG, then one of the 3 Wraths you cast before the spell you are casting now must have crit.
If you don't have NG, then none of the 3 Wraths you cast before the spell you are casting can have crit.
The chance of this is (1-Crit)^3. If your Crit is 45%, this is roughly 16.6%.
Therefore, for any given spell you are casting, if you were chaining Wraths before it, you have a 16.6% chance to NOT have NG up.
If you cast Wrath 1000 times, NG will be up for approximately all but 166 of them.

I'm not sure which side you're trying to imply is correct, but Adoriele's math is fine.

The article you're linking to is a good argument that the *expected time until the first* non-ng cast doesn't necessarily obey the same rules, but that's because the *distribution curve* isn't smooth, not because the probabilities themselves are different.

Actually I'm pretty sure NG procs as soon as it is determined that the spell crit, which is done right when the cast ends.

Correct. In fact, one of the things to examine more in the 3.2 TC is the potential gain from switching to SF immediately when you see that a Wrath has procced NG as it leaves your hands (thereby telling you that you have a 60% chance of starting an Eclipse when it lands).

Both very interesting articles. Probably more suited to the question of "How many spells can I cast in a given Eclipse", but still very much worth a listen for anyone who's interested in the subject. On a similar note, there's a spreadsheet I left in Efejel's old thread that did the sort of calculations in the second article, with the goal of determining how many casts you could fit into the duration of one Moonfire back in TBC when IS and Wrath weren't worth casting. Thing are orders of magnitude more complex now, hence why WC no longer even tries to determine that sort of info and goes for simple averages instead of probabilistic ones, but a good deal of work went into it for anyone who'd like to dissect its innards. I'll see if I can get a link to it here.