Moonkin Beginner Guide (obsolete; use the TTT article now (in my sig)) - Page 3

thedopefishlives · 05/19/09, 8:10 AM

Rawr uses the WrathCalcs formulas for its internal calculations. I did change some of the math with regard to treants, so there will be a discrepancy there, as well as calculating trinkets on a per-cycle basis using some really fun math.

Humbaba · 05/19/09, 8:30 AM

Originally Posted by Latas

It seems that WC still doesn't model trinkets though whereas rawr is for the most part. That might be part of the discrepancy. That and it doesn't use reaction time in its calculations, but if the queue system is in effect properly like they said way back in tbc reaction time shouldn't really matter all that much. At least that was my understanding of it.

The queue system doesn't work for instants or hasted wraths that take less than 1s to cast.

• Adoriele · 05/19/09, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Latas

It seems that WC still doesn't model trinkets though whereas rawr is for the most part. That might be part of the discrepancy. That and it doesn't use reaction time in its calculations, but if the queue system is in effect properly like they said way back in tbc reaction time shouldn't really matter all that much. At least that was my understanding of it.

First part true, second part not. WC doesn't calc trinkets because they're a huge pain to try and work out, and because I want to stay away from the huge gearlists that came up in Efejel's sheet. As a rule of thumb, WC is great for general theorycrafting/proving ideas because it's incredibly easy to modify. Rawr is better for getting the specifics, as you can use actual gear. Second part, WC has reaction time in its current iteration, though I can't remember if it's the only iteration where that's true. Probably.

bridy187 · 05/19/09, 12:06 PM

It might be worth mentioning that if your raid typically has either another boomkin who always casts FF (and is specced with 3/3 improved FF) and/or a shadow priest you can completely ignore FF in your speccing. Personally, I typically raid with a SP as well as another boomkin who has improved FF, so I have been able to ditch the improved faerie fire and just focus more on DPS increase talents (Imp IS or Brambles).

My off spec is actually the same thing as my main with improved FF in case of emergency.

dukes · 05/19/09, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by bridy187

so I have been able to ditch the improved faerie fire and just focus more on DPS increase talents (Imp IS or Brambles).

... Because 1% crit per point means it isn't a DPS increasing talent?

• Adoriele · 05/19/09, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by bridy187

It might be worth mentioning that if your raid typically has either another boomkin who always casts FF (and is specced with 3/3 improved FF) and/or a shadow priest you can completely ignore FF in your speccing. Personally, I typically raid with a SP as well as another boomkin who has improved FF, so I have been able to ditch the improved faerie fire and just focus more on DPS increase talents (Imp IS or Brambles).

My off spec is actually the same thing as my main with improved FF in case of emergency.

No. Brain before posting, even just a little. iFF is 3% crit to all of your spells any time an FF is up. If you have a feral tank, they'll put it up. If you have a feral DPS, they'll put it up. If you have another moonkin and no Spriest, one of you will put it up. In fact the only reason that FF wouldn't be up is if your only other Druids in the raid are Trees, and you have a different class putting up the 5% armor debuff (CoW or Sting from a Wasp). Otherwise, you should be putting it up anyway, because that 5% armor is a great raid debuff. And even then, if all the raid debuff slots are covered, you should STILL put it up because 3% crit personally is worth spending a GCD every 5 minutes.

And 3% crit to all spells is just plain better than iIS, or Brambles, or any of the other "filler" talents after you've gotten all the necessary ones.

ithecho84 · 05/19/09, 12:57 PM

If there is a moonkin in the raid putting up IFF and a feral putting up FFF and no shadow priest, will there still be a +hit debuff? I assume (or hope) the way that it works now is that both actually go up on the boss but the stronger of the two (IFF) provides a benefit. I come to this conclusion from the fact that FFF is castable at all while IFF is up.

• Adoriele · 05/19/09, 1:05 PM

Originally Posted by ithecho84

If there is a moonkin in the raid putting up IFF and a feral putting up FFF and no shadow priest, will there still be a +hit debuff? I assume (or hope) the way that it works now is that both actually go up on the boss but the stronger of the two (IFF) provides a benefit. I come to this conclusion from the fact that FFF is castable at all while IFF is up.

FFF has two components to it, a small damage effect on cast so that it can generate threat, and the debuff. They only recently unlinked these to allow ferals to cast FFF while iFF was up, but yes. Your iFF will stay on the target even if you have a feral using FFF in their rotation.

Areth · 05/19/09, 2:26 PM

Originally Posted by Whitemane

Why would you not continue to spam wrath until the Eclipse cooldown finishes?

I can't speak for SolanisRWO, but I refresh MF and IS after the solar eclipse ends. Since I've glyphed for starfire, I can pretty much "carry" the MF through to solar eclipse proc by spamming SF (12s duration + 9s added by SF = 21s, or 6s > eclipse CD). I've also glyphed MF, so it's the extra ticks that really provide the DPS boost for me (vs. the initial cast).

bridy187 · 05/19/09, 3:18 PM

Originally Posted by Adoriele

No. Brain before posting, even just a little. iFF is 3% crit to all of your spells any time an FF is up. If you have a feral tank, they'll put it up. If you have a feral DPS, they'll put it up. If you have another moonkin and no Spriest, one of you will put it up. In fact the only reason that FF wouldn't be up is if your only other Druids in the raid are Trees, and you have a different class putting up the 5% armor debuff (CoW or Sting from a Wasp). Otherwise, you should be putting it up anyway, because that 5% armor is a great raid debuff. And even then, if all the raid debuff slots are covered, you should STILL put it up because 3% crit personally is worth spending a GCD every 5 minutes.

And 3% crit to all spells is just plain better than iIS, or Brambles, or any of the other "filler" talents after you've gotten all the necessary ones.

My bad. I see what you are saying. I was falsely thinking the improved FF just affected hit for some reason. I forgot about the crit. So basically:

Imp FF > Imp IS > Brambles...right?

I will be changing my spec to reflect this. I had basically always learned that if someone else was FF'ing, then you didn't have to be. However, 3% crit is obviously still worth it to be FF'ing even if a SP is covering the hit via misery. Thanks for the info.

pukabg · 05/19/09, 3:27 PM

Originally Posted by Whitemane

Why would you not continue to spam wrath until the Eclipse cooldown finishes?

Because wrath sucks for mana, and is only really worth spamming during the eclipse phase. Besides, if you're a stickler for always hitting the right eclipse, then cast a wrath or 2 too many during CD and accidentally proc a lunar eclipse... that's no good. Also casting a few SF's increases the length of your moonfire (assuming it's glyphed) which will increase your damage as well.

Ashikar · 05/19/09, 5:06 PM

One small issue I see with the first post - brambles now only increases the damage of thorns cast upon yourself. I run brambles in my pvp spec and while my thorns returns ~370 damage everytime I am hit, the thorns on my DK only returns ~200.

I have no clue when/why this disconnect in thorns damage appeared but I am just letting everyone else know.

Brambles is still a reasonable DPS choice due to the increase in treant damage but you shouldn't apply the increased thorns damage into your calculations to see if it is worth picking up.

Poromu · 05/19/09, 8:20 PM

Are you sure the mob hitting you proccing Thorns didn't have debuffs increasing spell damage? Everything i've tested shows Thorns increasing in damage on targets I cast it on.

Alcohorlick · 05/20/09, 4:10 AM

Minor update to the summary post, but the [Idol of the Shooting Star] is 25 [Emblem of Valor], not 15.

Uladra · 05/20/09, 2:23 PM

I know this is going to sound like a really noobish question, but when i cast IFF on a target it seem the tooltip doesn't show the increased hit% to the target. I've played a mookin off and on for a while know and he's only been 80 for about a month. I'm just hoping that it wasn't nerfed or i missed it being taken out somewhere.

thanks in advance

I must say i am thoroughly impressed with all the moonkin and wanted to say thanks to all who contribute. i have found alot of helpful talents, rotations, stat priotities and ideals from all who contribute.

Yes I have 2 mains my BM Hunter and my Druid Ulardon, just in case someone was gonna check me out on the armory