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Old 05/26/09, 8:47 AM   #76
Starfox
King Hippo
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Destromath (EU)
Originally Posted by Raiix - Myla View Post
Thanks a lot for this nice conclusion!

After reading this, I just started leveling my (almost forgotten) lvl70 druid. So please go on keeping the first post up to date :-)

Two noob-questions left:
1. Does Glyph of Insect Swarm or Glyph of Moonfire provide the higher dps benefit?
2. What about Glyph of Focus? Is it worth mentioning when using Starfall a lot?
1. Depends if you use Glyph of Starfire and what rotation
Lunar rotation, latest SimulationCraft
w/o: IS > MF, 110 vs 77
with: They are the same dps gain (112 vs 116)
2. Starfall is about 3-5% of your damage, 20% on top of that is just less than 1%

Hello.
Light the fuse.
For all my homies.
Do not run, we are your friends.
SimulationCraft Druid Guy

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Old 05/26/09, 9:05 AM   #77
Erdluf
Great Tiger
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Echo Isles
Originally Posted by Nilaus View Post
... I always use hit food for bosses and nothing for trash. ...

PS: Don't say "trash doesn't matter" because that is where you spend 80% of a raid so it does matter in my opinion.
You are the one saying trash doesn't matter. For trash, you are losing 40 hit (which would be wasted) and gaining nothing. If you really thought trash mattered, you'd at least be adding SP food for trash.

You are right that for a boss fight it doesn't matter if you get your hit rating from food or from gear. The important thing is to be capped (or nearly so).

If you are capped for a raid boss, you are at least 8% over the cap for trash (AoE trash may not get IFF debuff). In principle, you'd trade gear/buffs that lose the extra hit, and allow you to gain some 280 SP (or at least some Haste and Crit).

In practice, you may not find it easy to get rid of all your excess hit. Still, at my low gear level, it is easy enough to swap between 100 and 200 hit for roughly that much SP, haste and crit, at the push of an Equipment Manager button (and the cost of some bag space).

You can do the same thing with food (or even talents), but it is not nearly so convenient.

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Old 05/26/09, 7:20 PM   #78
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Latas View Post
As far as I know switching idols won't let you cast any spells for at least your GCD.
Importantly, for a non-hasted GCD (1.5s). You could macro a swap into any instant cast and lose only the difference between your hasted GCD and 1.5s. But the problem is that you're not regularly casting an instant every time you swap from Starfire to Wrath or back, so there's no reliable way to get the switch off. Also, it would add a ton of complexity to the rotation.

Originally Posted by Poromu View Post
Glyph of Moonfire is the highest dps glyph we have.
Glyph of Insect Swarm is a close second.
Both Glyph's of Starfall and Starfire are pretty much equals relative to the encounter.


Since you're 70 leveling as Balance to 80 I assume, I would suggest Glyph of Focus, Innervate, and Starfall.
In my most recent spreadsheet model, I see them as IS > SF > MF.

Originally Posted by Nilaus View Post
I never really got the advice about spell power food:
Spell power food = 46 SP = 59.8 points
Hit food = 40 hit rating = 80 points
According to the information in the guide it should be better to get hit rating food.

I always use hit food for bosses and nothing for trash. This gives me all the hit I need and I don't carry a lot of wasted Hit Rating for all the trash. I socket everything with Runed Scarlets and Runed Dragon's Eyes. So giving up 2½ of those to recover the hit rating is hugely inefficient.

I realise that you may end up with gear where you get too much Hit Rating, but if so then let it be, but pursuing it religiously as these guides tend to advice, is poor advice.

PS: Don't say "trash doesn't matter" because that is where you spend 80% of a raid so it does matter in my opinion.
The thing is, you can make up missing hit with either food or gems. With food, you trade 46 sp for 40 hit; with gems, you trade 47 sp for 40 hit (2.5 gems). So the gain of using hit food is essentially nonexistent for bosses, and it's far less convenient. And if the yellow gems let you pick up any socket bonuses at all, then spellpower food is better from even a perfectionist standpoint. Also, as someone pointed out above, if you're not even using spellpower food for trash, you're not gaining any benefit there in the first place. A person who was willing to swap food every time for trash/bosses could therefore get a small gain on trash compared to the rest of us, but I doubt very many people want to do this (and it certainly doesn't belong in a general guide).


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Old 05/28/09, 7:53 PM   #79
Addeman
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Shattered Hand (EU)
Originally Posted by Arawethion View Post
I've always been of the view that everyone should have a speed enchant for raiding. This is no different in Ulduar, where most of the fights (and all of the hard fights) require a great deal of movement. Run speed is a no-brainer for improving survivability, healing intake, and DPS time.
I currently use icewalker. The hit-rating takes me just over the soft-cap. After reading this im going too get the enchant but the thing im wondering is if the runspeed enchant is worth using even if this puts you under the cap? I will, of course, switch out some gems. But if i didn't have this option, would it still be better too use it or would it be better too wait until you get an upgrade with more hit on it?

Last edited by Addeman : 05/28/09 at 7:56 PM. Reason: messed up the quoting

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Old 05/28/09, 11:53 PM   #80
Ruoma
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Blackhand
Great info so far.
The question I did not see answered here is, does IFF stack with Master Poisoner or Heart of the Crusader. I raid 99% of the time with a rogue with Master Poisoner so was just curious if IFF is going to make a difference.

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Old 05/29/09, 12:15 AM   #81
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Ruoma View Post
Great info so far.
The question I did not see answered here is, does IFF stack with Master Poisoner or Heart of the Crusader. I raid 99% of the time with a rogue with Master Poisoner so was just curious if IFF is going to make a difference.
Yes. It's a personal buff that stacks with everything.


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Old 05/31/09, 7:42 AM   #82
Omidin
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Outland (EU)
Hello everyone,

I recently started raiding as balance and my dps is simply horrid. On Deconstructor I barely pulled 3k, on Council it was closer to 2.5 overall, on fights like patchwerk I hover around 3k.

I realize I'm slightly under the hit cap but surely that cant account for the DPS I seem to be pulling.

Seeing as I'm over 400 haste, I assume I should be using Lunar rotation, yet some people still swear by Solar. I dont have mana issues if thats a factor.

Also, how is my rotation? I normally use IFF > IS > MF > Wrath until proc > Starfire (during eclipse). I never know which spell to cast post eclipse though, should it be wrath or starfire until iCD runs out?

About the dots, I was told to only refresh them when eclipse is not up, never during eclipse, yet on some threads it is suggested to refresh moonfire whenever it goes down. Sort of confusing.
Third, My rotation is pretty much: IFF > IS > MF > Wrath until proc > SF > SF after proc while reapplying dots whenever they go off.

So I go to you the educated EJ moonkin folks, please help me.

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Old 05/31/09, 11:58 AM   #83
Poromu
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Windrunner
I personally go with iFF > IS > MF > W til Eclipse > SF til eclipse is off cooldown. I only refresh dots during Eclipse at 6sec for IS and 9 for MF so they have time to tick a few times. I usually average 5-6k in most Ulduar fights with a couple going higher and a couple lower depending on fight mechanics.

The reasoning behind Lunar Eclipse over Solar is even if you're at the 400 cap Bloodlust or haste procs/mechanics for most encounters will put you over the haste cap and I don't like altering my rotation for 40sec or more a fight.

I can't see Armory atm, stupid bugginess. But I assume you're favoring spell damage over everything, it is worth it to gem hit to the cap though seeing as Hit is worth so much more than spell damage til you hit the cap. The same is universally true for gear selection and food choice.

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Old 05/31/09, 12:23 PM   #84
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
Hamlet's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Addeman View Post
I currently use icewalker. The hit-rating takes me just over the soft-cap. After reading this im going too get the enchant but the thing im wondering is if the runspeed enchant is worth using even if this puts you under the cap? I will, of course, switch out some gems. But if i didn't have this option, would it still be better too use it or would it be better too wait until you get an upgrade with more hit on it?
I'd gem and use runspeed.

Originally Posted by Omidin View Post
Hello everyone,

I recently started raiding as balance and my dps is simply horrid. On Deconstructor I barely pulled 3k, on Council it was closer to 2.5 overall, on fights like patchwerk I hover around 3k.
I did say that part of the point of this thread was to absorb these sorts of questions, but you should still really only be asking them after you're already trying out the advice in the OP. It's not clear you've read it yet.


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Old 06/01/09, 8:45 AM   #85
Nelson
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Kirin Tor (EU)
Cancelled message

Last edited by Nelson : 06/01/09 at 2:11 PM.

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Old 06/01/09, 9:19 AM   #86
Eilt
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Bloodhoof
What testing did you do? Or do you just anecdotally decide the above and call that testing? Not to mention there are 50 other posts that tell you than around 400 Haste you cap Wrath at the GCD. And finally, I have no clue what the last question even means. I suggest reading the post above yours and taking the same advice.

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Old 06/01/09, 9:35 AM   #87
Humbaba
Mr. Sandman
 
Humbaba's Avatar
 
Humbalo
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Omidin View Post
Hello everyone,

I recently started raiding as balance and my dps is simply horrid. On Deconstructor I barely pulled 3k, on Council it was closer to 2.5 overall, on fights like patchwerk I hover around 3k.

I realize I'm slightly under the hit cap but surely that cant account for the DPS I seem to be pulling.

Seeing as I'm over 400 haste, I assume I should be using Lunar rotation, yet some people still swear by Solar. I dont have mana issues if thats a factor.

Also, how is my rotation? I normally use IFF > IS > MF > Wrath until proc > Starfire (during eclipse). I never know which spell to cast post eclipse though, should it be wrath or starfire until iCD runs out?

About the dots, I was told to only refresh them when eclipse is not up, never during eclipse, yet on some threads it is suggested to refresh moonfire whenever it goes down. Sort of confusing.
Third, My rotation is pretty much: IFF > IS > MF > Wrath until proc > SF > SF after proc while reapplying dots whenever they go off.

So I go to you the educated EJ moonkin folks, please help me.
Link your armory and a log and we might be able to help.

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Old 06/02/09, 11:57 AM   #88
Hugzy
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Arathor (EU)
Hello everyone, my first post here & I didnt have much time for theory crafting lately due to work.

With the JC change comming i was looking at my profs again, but i read here that Engi. is one of the worst profs to get. But I vaguely remember some posts that it was pretty awesome when they made the cd 1min, so you could use it every second eclipse.
Now i'm wondering why it is that bad, i cant find the old posts(it might even not have been on this forum) but were they just wrong ? or is the haste worse now cause i should change to a wrath/solar eclipse maybe ?

Thanks in advance,
Hugzy

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Old 06/02/09, 4:25 PM   #89
Omidin
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Outland (EU)
What nets the most DPS during the eclipse iCD, Wrath or Starfire?

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Old 06/02/09, 4:27 PM   #90
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
Hamlet's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Omidin View Post
What nets the most DPS during the eclipse iCD, Wrath or Starfire?
Just plug your numbers into WC and check, but probably Starfire.


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