Anubisck

How much dps improve is hysteria ?

Is there a spreadsheet or a simulation to give exact data.

 

Kazanir

Feral By Night is the simulator. This is a dumb question though -- Hysteria is a 20% DPS increase for 30 seconds. How much it improves your DPS or damage done over the course of a fight will of course depend on how much DPS you were already doing.

'War' is too small a word for what I'm fighting. Like a candle in front of the whole burning Sun. I told you. This is bigger than a war. Now, I am not going to die today. I have other projects, and other options.

You can come with me. I can protect you.

 

Murna

Hysteria is exactly 20% more DPS.
Berserk gives 50% reduced energy costs. So it would be 50% more yellow damage, but on the other hand we waste a lot of Combopoints during berserk.

So assuming you do 6k DPS, 30% of your damage is autohit.
Than you would do approx 35% more damage during berserk, which is 8100 DPS.
So Berserk + Hysteria would boost your 6k DPS to 9720 DPS.
That's of course just a rough estimation.

Concerning your rotation during berserk: There are of course different ways.
On occasions, where you've got damage enhancing effects (like storm cloud on hodir or especially heart on XT), try to make a 5 CP roar before and then start Berserk (always with Tiger's fury!!!) and spam shred, while maintaining mangle and rake. You should not need to refresh Savage roar here.

During other bosses. try to FB before Berserk. Because after FB you normally struggle to keep your other effects up and running, berserk can help you here to stablizie your rip, mangle, rake and Savage roar uptime.

And remember: ALWAYS TF + Berserk (you can use a macro)


I updated the BiS gear list and put them in the "normal" order. I also showed the gems used.
I will try to post different BiS gear sets tonight, containing only 10man loot or only easymode loot. Also, a pre-raid set shall be included.

 

ramenchef

That BiS gear list seems a few weeks old.

Slot	Item
Back	Drape of Faceless General
Chest	Conqueror's Nightsong Rainments
Feet	Footpads of Silence(icewalker enchant)
Ring 1	Brann’s Signet Ring
Head	Conqueror's Nightsong Headguard
Legs	Leggards of Cunning Deception
Hands	Conqueror's Nightsong Handgrips
Neck	Pendulum of Infinity
Shoulders	Conqueror's Nightsong Shoulderpads
Trinket 1	Comet's Trail
Trinket 2	Mjolnir Runestone
Weapon	Dreambinder
Waist	Soul-Devouring Cinch
Ring 2	Band of Lights
Wrist	Fluxing Energy Coils

This would be the most updated BiS gear list with what is known. If anyone knows a better gearset, please let me know.

 

Anubisck

In a 3 min. fight a the dmg boost during beserk and Hysteria would evolve in a total of 6595 average dps. I was hoping a little more.


It is not mandatory to use Berserk with TF, you need to have high energy 70-80. The TF buff fades as soon as you hit berserk. The only reason to use TF with Berserk ist when at low Energy.

 

a civilian

50% reduced energy cost would be 100% increased yellow damage. However, berserk would be worth more than that even, because it doubles the value of your previously pooled energy as well. But then there are the mitigating factors: berserk doesn't double the value of clearcasts (worth about a fourth of total energy regeneration with 2t8 and a high gear level), berserk doesn't make dots run any faster, and (for the most part) you can't ferocious bite during berserk.

I just checked a few Ignis / hard XT logs (6 instances of berserk, but there wasn't a high variance) and my damage per time during berserk (no hysteria) was 50-60% above the average for the fight.

 

Boevis

Tiger's Fury Awards 60 Energy and a +80 Damage bonus for 6 seconds, you can treat that as 6 GCD potentially. When not used during Berserk, 6 seconds is 60 Energy + 60 from TF + 40 "stored" = 160 energy, at most that's 4 abilities (with 2 not being shreds) plus the potential for OOC Procs (~33% chance to occur in that 6 second window depending on haste). When used with Berserk, you lose a GCD from activating berserk, but because of the effective doubling of your energy, you'll be using a special attack every GCD.

Guaranteed 5 Abilities versus a weaker 4+chance for more. True, it's not a massive increase, a whopping 1.56 DPS increase getting an extra shred in there, but you need to Berserk at high energy, and the likelyhood of having high energy sometime other than TF is very odd.

 

a civilian

But as the post claims, tiger's fury fades when you gain berserk. (I didn't know this, but I just tested and it is indeed the case.)

Edit: I checked some old combat logs and this seems to have been a 3.1 change.

 

Ja7us

It's also worthwhile to note that if you use berserk while TF is not up, you have to use it with at least 15 seconds left on the TF cooldown or you'll be losing potential energy (since the cooldown will finish but you can't use it until berserk finishes).

 

DataPhreak

Perhaps I missed this somewhere, (Not likely, as i've been trying to find this info for weeks), and perhaps it doesn't really matter, but what about weapon stats? I'm trying to figure out what weapon type i should be looking for to put on my cat. From what i've seen, weapon attack speed doesn't seem to factor in to kitty or bear attack speed. So when picking a weapon for DPS, not taking character attribute bonuses into account, should i prioritize min/max per hit, or DPS score in the weapon tooltip? I.E. Dagger or 2h mace, which is better on average?

 

Boevis

Listen, just because this is the "for dummies" thread, doesn't mean you should be asking questions that can be found on wowwiki.

You get AP in feral forms equal to the DPS of the weapon minus 54.7 times 14. You can see this number on any item with higher than 54.7 DPS.

As for which stats are better, go read the Feralbynight or Cat DPS Rotation threads.

 

Murna

I'm not so sure about this anymore.
Firstly, I read somewhere, that Mongoose is sometimes better than Berserking.
With my current gear setting, RAWR shows that executioner is best! I've got 497 ArP (with Hearty Rhino already).

What are your thoughts about weapon enchants?

 

Fuzzywuz

As far as I know, nightcrowlers work has the best up to date information about enchants. About halfway down his first post, he has a table comparing relative DPS values of our weapon enchants with respect to your gear level (he assumes Ulduar BiS).

FeralbyNight (Cat & Bear simulation tool)

For brevity's sake, here's the order from best to worst: Mongoose--->Berserking---->Massacre---->Executioner

 

MegaVolt

From the Wowwiki:

How does this fit? Armor for tanks does not have diminishing returns (in time to live), the same should hold true for the boss (again: in total time to live).

 

Boevis

Because people are very bad at describing things.
Assuming standard Boss with 5x Sunder and FF (and that I can do math)
A = 8089 - 7774*ArP% (caps at 100%)
DR = A/(A+15232.5)
0% = 34.68% DR you do Damage * .6532
10% = 32.43% DR you do D * .6757 (.0225 more)
20% = 30.02% DR you do D * .6998 (.0241 more)

So as you gain more ArP each point increases your DPS by more than the last point

The Armor Doesn't Diminish argument comes from Time to live. If you have 100k health, and are taking 10k dps, your TTL is 10 seconds. With 30.02% DR, you instead are taking 6998 DPS giving you a TTL of 14.29. With 32.43% this becomes 14.8 (.51 change). With 34.68% this becomes 15.31 (.51 change)

Effectively, Armor, and Armor Pen both scale linearly in regards to TTL, but in terms of DPS, the lower the armor, the more each amount of armor you remove is worth. I hope that makes sense.

 

MegaVolt

Thanks that makes sense. So in the end it's basic math
TTL = HP / DPS. TTL will decrease linear with ArP and therefor DPS has to increase more then linear.

 

bloodcurdler

For the BiS list, what would i use for an idol? Currently i am the only feral druid in our raids and we have no mangle bots I am currently using Idol of the Ravenous Beast, but would i be better off switching to Idol of the Corruptor when i get it? Or just saving that for bear form?

 

Murna

Your question is covered in my guide already

 

Scrufola

A small correction. Curse of Recklessness does no longer exist, the armor reduce was rolled into Curse of Weakness.

Doesn't change anything as it's still a damage loss for the warlock and could be applied by any lock.

 

Crucial288

Alright, i run into this situation quite a few times recently, It might be because of the amount of combo points i refresh my SR with or the time left on it already when i do, but quite often after a FB for example, I would have 5 CPs when both rip and SR are about to expire (~10 seconds).

So then i wonder, would it be worth refreshing SR early and having a few seconds more of rip downtime, or rather wait and refresh rip, then have a second or 2 of SR downtime before i get another combo point to cast it?

 

shuruppak

I'm wondering about the Relative value of ArP if you dont have a warrior tank in the raid to sunder. does that push the ArP soft cap up by 20%?

 

Murna

No it doesn't push the soft-cap
When you have 100% Armor ignore, you ignore, of course, 100% of your target's armor.
Sunder or Faerie Fire would make no difference.

 

Jone

Please read the armor pen discussion from the Combat Ratings at Level 80 thread pages 17 to 19. Though you're right that sunder doesn't affect the ArPen soft cap, it's not for the reason you're thinking. If you have 100% armor penetration from ar pen rating on gear, you ignore roughly 80% of a level 83 boss's armor, but sunder and FF will still increase your DPS because they reduce the boss's armor before your 81% effectiveness cap is applied. I'm sure we all agree that Blizzard found a pretty silly way of phrasing it when "100% penetration" doesn't mean 100% of boss armor is actually ignored. Really, read the thread, there are even graphs of what damage reduction you'll see with a given % armor pen and subset of armor debuffs.

 

Gallivant

Regarding the trending of ArP --

I am sitting with about 250-300 ArP in gear alone. With gemming for it, I am getting near 450. I have the Grim Toll as well. According to this write up, ArP is the most useful stat for my gear level (5/5 Conq).

That being said, I am still seeing many feral dps running around stacking Agi over ArP (at the same gear level). From what I am seeing, in the same environment, with the same gear, they are coming out on the DPS meters much higher than me.

Rotations are spot on the same.

Am I missing something here?

 

Fuzzywuz

As far as the current theory is concerned, once you reach the trinket soft cap on ArP (556), you want to start gemming agility (while maintaining the soft cap, of course). It's certainly possible to do well by simply gemming agility because you end up with a broader and consequently higher range of potential DPS than if you had gemmed ArP (Nightcrowlers work is a worthwhile read, the section about DPS dispersion is about halfway down his OP). Also, there is a school of thought that values gemming agility on fights were burst DPS is important (like yogg).

Much of your DPS is determined by factors outside of your control (RNG, raid comp, boss strat). Simply because one person does well gemming agility does not mean that you will also do well in that setup--it could be that he's getting chained hysteria, his raid setup caters towards melee DPS instead of caster DPS, and he has a mangle bot (which you may not). His rotation might be 'looser', in which case he has a lower margin of error when it comes to CP generation and he needs the extra crit to maintain a correct rotation. He could have simply gotten lucky, had great RNG and consequently, great DPS. You should be choosing your gems based upon what your raid gives you in terms of composition and strategy--what works for you is more important than what works for someone else.

If you upload your combat logs to world of logs, you can look at a graph that shows you where buffs and debuffs such as rip, rake, and SR fell off, where you were clipping rip/rake, and the DPS dispersion that you experienced on a given fight--all would be useful for you to identify exactly what you can improve on in your gemming and rotation.