I suppose you're right. If you assume that 8 energy will always be used for another Shred, you end up with 8/42 (19%) of a shred versus 30% of a shred + variable bleed damage, of which the 30%+ clearly wins

Yes, do not gem armor pen until you have at least 400 armor pen from gear alone. The upper limit is 735 with Mjolnir, 788 with Grim Toll (1400 is 100% armor pen). If I got my numbers wrong, someone rip me a new one

Im a bit new at this and am kinda confused. I have about 600 passive ArP and no trinket(offspec is kitty so no luck at gettin the runestone) from what I have been told if I have enough ArP so my shreds should be my top damage done. is this true or false? from a 15 min fight with a dummy my top damage done was rip at 29.2% melee was 25.7% and shred was 20.6%. is this normal for shred damage? I know the ArP nerf in 3.2.2 was little, but I cant get any shred crits over 8.5k

also for chants, I saw that Murna recommended icewalker. I use agi to feet, is that a mistake or is the change minimal. is haste useless for kittys? I have seen posts saying that haste is great if you have a massive amount of it, but what if you only have 100 or so, would that 100 haste be a waste of itemization or if Im at the soft ArP cap(when I get the runestone) would I want to take haste over say crit on my gear?

I have looked through many many posts and I am still confused from what I hear from a feral friend and what you guys say @.@

Melee should always be the biggest chunk of your damage at about 30%, followed by Shred and Rip.
Without raidbuffs, your crit is very low, which means you can't shred as often. That's why your shred damage is low compared to rip.
Just check out RAWR, it will give you an estimation, how many percent each of your damage moves will do. For example for me it's

Melee 31%
Shred 26.1%
Rip 22.9%
Rake 11.8%
FB 7.7%

Remember - these values are a bit off, because RNG and some slight errors in the RAWR code. But they give you an impression.


Haste doesn't scale exponential like ArP, but more linear like crit. That means, it doesn't matter how much haste you have - it always has the same value for you.

But Haste scales with your DPS. More Haste means more OoC proccs and more Autoattack damage. Obviously haste becomes better, the more damage you do.

Concerning the Foot enchant: Yes, Agi is better than Hit. BUT: 12 Crit + 12 Haste > 16 Agi, unless you can't use the whole 12 Hit when near or above the Hit Cap.

Murna means 12 Crit + 12 Hit > 16 Agi assuming you aren't above 251 Hit already (the hit cap is 263)

For the average druid, Haste is a terrible stat, however it benefits from the fact that it never caps, ie. you'll never reach a point where more haste isn't a good thing. For the few druids at my gear level (FB softcapped on Crit, ArP softcap with Mjolnir but not enough to go for Hard Cap, Hit Capped) Haste just becomes a better stat by default. 10 Haste only has to be as good as 6 agi to make it worth socketing the [Deft Ametrine] in +4 Agi bonus spots, which are all over the place and [Twin's Pact] is better than [Hellion Glaive]. This is all very conditional on not needing any more Crit, and being soft-capped on ArP, otherwise Pure Agi or ArP gems are likely better.

As usual, always use a [Nightmare Tear] to get a good socket bonus, and activate your Meta.

my guild has thorim hardmode on farm in 10 man so its only a matter of time before I can get it for offspec.


I am hit caped so the agi was the right choice to make. sadly all my gear is what I get from offspec so I cant really be picky about what stats are on my gear

and I would feel dirty if I didnt have a [Nightmare Tear] in my gear

a friend recommended me to use [Insane Strength Potion] over a haste pot. should I start stackin up on them?

Your friend was wrong; haste potions are much better than insane strength pots.

I wouldn't be surprised if soft-cap on FB is actually about 5% lower. There's some research in the class mechanics forum showing 5% white hits right now, and I wouldn't be surprised to see the same with yellow hits.

Also, agility procs (death's choice/verdict trinkets, greatness trinkets, mongoose, idols, etc.) can often push you over that soft cap even when you're under it on average. I'd hate to have to formulate all of those at the same time!

Edit: Also, whether you should trust Rawr or not depends on your playstyle. Do you sacrifice Rip for FB a lot? Do you have to mangle-bot (Rawr's collision models are a little behind.) Typical damage profiles can vary a lot while outputting very good DPS, and ideal gearing in those situations vary. Regardless, the total difference between gemming Agi versus gemming ArP is unlikely to matter unless you fall at one extreme (i.e. no FBs; gem Agi) or the other (i.e. 70% bleed uptimes; gem ArP).

How would low bleed uptime be indicative of the need for more ar pen?

babjengi: Because I tank Heroics and DPS Normal mode, my gear was changing so often that I only used ArP gems in the items that I only use for DPS. FB soft-cap is counting idol/DMG agi, so it's actually quite low. If I had Deaths Choice as well, it would be theoretically possible to hit the Rip Crit cap at some point and time, Rawr is putting me at 70% crit with it's version of BiS gear, procs up that to 80%.

Because it means you are using your energy more often for other things (Shred over Rake, FB over holding out for Rip) thus, ArP will be more needed. Allev probably should have said it in reverse: If you are gemming for ArP, Bleed uptime should be lower; if you are gemming for Agi, Bleed uptime should be higher (I can't imagine dropping FBs from your rotation when you gem Agi, since you'll be critting a lot more)

I've been reading through and im seeing soft cap for crit on FB and on Rip. I was wondering if someone could just explain this a little? What is the soft cap crit for FB, and for Rip, and what does that mean generally. 0_o?