I actually don't understand how one can possibly misunderstand what I said. But I will make my greatest effort to explain it once again.

This line should say it quite clearly. As soon as you can reach approx 200 ArP, ArP becomes the best stat!

I even explained it even more:


I understand, that you are worried about your crit chance. But there are other theorycrafting out there more clever than you or me proving that ArP or Agi is always better than crit or anything else. Now matter how much you are concerned, you should trust these information if you want to optimize your dps

I would Reverse those. Rake is definitely not powerful enough to be a required 100% uptime, Mangle is considering it's synergy with other classes.

Taking the scenario of both Rake and Mangle expiring at the same time, and only having 35 energy. First, I will tell you that you're doing it wrong, in order to be at this point, you must have used an ability other than Mangle or Rake 3.5 seconds ago and you should have seen that you'd need to refresh soon and just saved your energy.
Second, consider the damage differences. If you Rake First, you will be losing the benefit of Mangle (30%) on the initial hit and 1 tic of Rake, as well as 1.5 tics of Rip. If you Mangle first, you lose 3.5 seconds of Rake uptime, or 7/6 of a Rake tic.

Mangle Damage lost from Rake First: .3*((.01AP+190)*crit+(.18AP+1161)/3)*1.2*1.1 + .3*(.3AP+3204)/6*1.1*1.5*crit + Raid Damage Lost
Rake Uptime Lost from Mangle First: 7/6*(.18AP+1161)/3*1.2*1.1*1.3

Plugging in 10k AP and 55% crit.
Rake First Loses 1431.1 of your own damage, + X from Raid (depends on how many warriors and rogues)
Mangle First Loses 1976 damage

Mangle needs to provide 544.8 damage to the raid in 3.5 (155.67 DPS) seconds for Mangle First to be more worth it. If you have another feral druid, and you're the one mangling, Mangle Wins. Looking at a random report, Rupture gains ~125 DPS from Mangle and Deep Wounds ~200 DPS, so it's pretty easy in a standard raid to make up the difference.

Of course, if you only care about your personal DPS, you should Rake first. But then you're Fat.

Yeah, my question was pretty much pertaining to personal DPS.

Dark Edge > Dream Binder? I was under the assumption (with Rawr) that Dream Binder was BiS.

Well, of course Dream Binder is better than the Dark Edge.
But in the complete BiS gear, you are already at the ArP Soft-Cap. So the 85 ArP Rating of the Dream Binder lose versus the 24AP + 64 Hit of the Dark Edge.

Besides - this BiS list was created by nightcrowler and his FBN simulator.

I prefer refreshing Savage Roar during the Berserk, else excess combo points feel wasted, so having 5cp up just before that seems stupid.

This being the guide for dummies ... Berserk as soon as it's off cooldown and so is TF. The differences on exactly when is going to come down to a matter of seconds (much like when to FB) Having said that, I think that "If you get to use more than 1 Berserk in a battle, once it's off cooldown and so is TF, after a FB, use TF and Berserk" is a pretty good bylaw on Feral Cycles. SR and Rip will both need refreshing soon, so your chances of wasting CP's is practically nil.

Heart Phases/Storm Power (or some other time period where you need to burst, like the Animus) aside, never Berserk during a Bloodlust

As a personal preference, I like to put up that Roar prior to heart phase/Animus. Especially for the heart, where your Roar will be up for the entire duration that the heart is out, I pop Berserk and put up a 5CP rip on the heart (usually Mangle Rake Shred and if necessary, another Shred) as soon as I can, and then spam 5CP FBs for the rest of the phase while keeping debuffs up. Ferals and rogues should generally top heart meters, due to the power of Berserk/Adrenaline Rush. After I did a few attempts, I got this rotation down pretty well and it hasn't failed me at all. Animus I don't have quite as many attempts in on, but we usually hold Bloodlust for a bit when he pops, and I usually Berserk pretty soon after he pops in order to help get him into the low health portion so our low-health-wrecker DPS classes can burn him hard. I tend not to FB Animus at a fast rate due to the slightly longer time he is out.

Long story short, I prefer starting both those phases out with 5CP Roars from the main bosses to make getting and holding my debuffs up at the start of the fight a little easier.

@Murna:

Slot	Item
Back	Drape of Faceless General
Chest	Conqueror's Nightsong Rainments
Feet	Footpads of Silence(icewalker enchant)
Ring 1	Brann’s Signet Ring
Head	Conqueror's Nightsong Headguard
Legs	Leggards of Cunning Deception
Hands	Conqueror's Nightsong Handgrips
Neck	Pendulum of Infinity
Shoulders	Conqueror's Nightsong Shoulderpads
Trinket 1	Blood of the Old god
Trinket 2	Mjolnir Runestone
Weapon	Dreambinder
Waist	Soul-Devouring Cinch
Ring 2	Band of Lights
Wrist	Solar Bindings

The BiS gear in my main post is not yet updated, there wasn't Dreambinder when I made it.

How much dps improve is hysteria ?

Is there a spreadsheet or a simulation to give exact data.

Feral By Night is the simulator. This is a dumb question though -- Hysteria is a 20% DPS increase for 30 seconds. How much it improves your DPS or damage done over the course of a fight will of course depend on how much DPS you were already doing.

Hysteria is exactly 20% more DPS.
Berserk gives 50% reduced energy costs. So it would be 50% more yellow damage, but on the other hand we waste a lot of Combopoints during berserk.

So assuming you do 6k DPS, 30% of your damage is autohit.
Than you would do approx 35% more damage during berserk, which is 8100 DPS.
So Berserk + Hysteria would boost your 6k DPS to 9720 DPS.
That's of course just a rough estimation.

Concerning your rotation during berserk: There are of course different ways.
On occasions, where you've got damage enhancing effects (like storm cloud on hodir or especially heart on XT), try to make a 5 CP roar before and then start Berserk (always with Tiger's fury!!!) and spam shred, while maintaining mangle and rake. You should not need to refresh Savage roar here.

During other bosses. try to FB before Berserk. Because after FB you normally struggle to keep your other effects up and running, berserk can help you here to stablizie your rip, mangle, rake and Savage roar uptime.

And remember: ALWAYS TF + Berserk (you can use a macro)


I updated the BiS gear list and put them in the "normal" order. I also showed the gems used.
I will try to post different BiS gear sets tonight, containing only 10man loot or only easymode loot. Also, a pre-raid set shall be included.

In a 3 min. fight a the dmg boost during beserk and Hysteria would evolve in a total of 6595 average dps. I was hoping a little more.


It is not mandatory to use Berserk with TF, you need to have high energy 70-80. The TF buff fades as soon as you hit berserk. The only reason to use TF with Berserk ist when at low Energy.