Feral DPS Discussion - Page 52

Murna · 03/19/10, 10:21 AM

As long as we have OoC, one thing will remain true:

Haste scales with DPS. If your DPS goes up, the value of haste compared to the other stats will grow too.

This is because you will bite more often (having more crit means more CP) and because a free shred from OoC will get more and more important. And if you stack ArP, more white hits will always be good, too, compared to rip and rake.

HaklePrime · 03/19/10, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by AMC

Hi i have some problems my rake falling off randomly. Why is this happening? Tryed to search around the forums but found nothing I'm using ForteXorcist spell timer and it's updated so i doubt it's that.

And i cant refresh my rip cause a "more powerful spell is already activated" its falling off in 5 sec I'm sittong on 5 CP rake and mangle both has 3-4 sec left and Savarage roar is at 10+ sec. should i wait till both mangle and rake falls off then refresh rip and them or just refresh them with 5 cp and rip a little bit later?

Thanks for answer

I suspect you're clipping your Rake. Not only will clipping your Rake often produce the bug of not applying the debuff, it's also a DPS loss. Don't clip Rake.

Taiyri · 03/19/10, 2:15 PM

Herkumi really is 2nd BiS? I didn't think it was that amazing for us. I always thought heroic Death's Verdict/Choice was always the second BiS. Unless I'm just remembering wrong from the BiS list in page 1.

Edit: Aha, I see where I made that mistake. I almost always look at the BiS without hardmode list. So it's only 2nd best if you're in mostly hard mode loot? Or would it still be a viable secondary choice to heroic Death's Verdict for those of us who will probably never get it?

Kuley · 03/19/10, 3:27 PM

Herkuml is included because BiS setups are usually armorpen, crit and hit-capped, making the passive haste significantly more valuable. If you're still a good distance from having BiS, DV and DBW will likely be a bigger upgrade.

Gurrshael · 03/20/10, 1:09 PM

It's not just because the haste on it is suddendly more valuable. You are completely forgetting the stacking 340AP proc that is up for almost the whole fight.

Syllab · 03/22/10, 9:17 PM

Question about bleed scaling stats, since this one person in my guild is bugging me about it.

His thinking is the following: "bleeds scale off AP, strength is best AP stat for cats, hence I gem strength."

Now I'm not the mainstream person to always do what random people say is good, but this just sounds so stupid, even if these things he sais are true, why would this (not?) be the better stat to gem for in cat gear. Bleeds ARE a big part of my dps, but shred and melee whites still top my list. Notable fact: weirdly enough he is competing in dps with the other feral cats in my guild who gem whatever rawr tells them to gem.

Sorry if I'm ruining any other ongoing haste/crit discussion here, I couldn't find an answer anywhere and this seems a place where people actually know what they're saying, hence I thought I'd try asking here.

Nich · 03/23/10, 1:22 AM

Everything scales from Strength, but after you get some tier bonuses, everything scales from crit, too. And talents increase the crit multiplier. Which is why Rawr usually suggests agility over strength.

Perhaps he is just a better player. Or maybe it's ultimately going to make an small overall difference - the relative value of each stat is quite close.

Obsceno · 03/23/10, 3:57 AM

I wonder if your friend has the crit and arp cap. If he has those already up, then gemming str over agi would in theory increase his dps. Do you know what gear does he have and if he has achieved those caps?

Sylvaneart · 03/23/10, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Nogo

Following the present thread and discussion ( and using RAWR ) i recently regemed from agility to ArP, i aimed for the 722 ArP since using the scorpion Trinket, and for best results ( since i am a no brainer at MAths) i used Optimize tool on Rawr.

I have been trying to use RAWR to check these same stats but it dosnt seem to work correctly. It is almost as if RAWR is not figuring the ArP from the trink at all. All the stats shown on RAWR are adjusted to show what they would be averaging out procs but the ArP remains constent. With gear, food and gems my Arp is 1077. If i remove a trink and put on scorp it is 1077. I currently have the scorp, war token, 245 Death's verdict, and 251 fanged skull. From what i have read i should use scorp and 245 DV and change out my gemming to Agi but leaving enough Arp to stay at 722. RAWR also says my dps should be around 11K fully buffed and I am about 2K short. I want to be better at kitty but I just feel I am missing something.

The World of Warcraft Armory - Sylvaneart @ Malygos - Profile

Also with the changes in 3.3.3 it would seem a spec change is in order
As you can see from my armory I combined the single target and aoe specs. I did not take SI or charge as our tanks and healers are really good and I don't stand in crap. But with debuff from mangle moving to 60 seconds it would seem improved mangle just isnt needed anymore. 6 energy cost reduction dosnt really seem needed if I am only using it every 60 seconds. Figure I could use 2 points from that and get SI and charge.

Talanik · 03/23/10, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by histrix

"Glyph of Mangle: This glyph now provides 10% increased damage done by Mangle instead of increasing the duration of the debuff."

Any chance that with 3.3.3 (tomorrow in EU) it will worth to spam mangle over shred?

Someone did the math a few pages back, and while the difference were relatively close (~500 DPS difference), but it basically said while Shred is better in most situations, the Mangle spec may be better on certain select add fights such as Dreamwalker and Deathwhisper.

Edit: Here it is.

Actually, I have run a couple of simulations with my current cat configuration (1.3k arpen, ilvl 251 4T10, cryptmaker as weapon, almost all the rest ilvl264 non HM bis). The DPS change from the "classic" cycle to the mangle-spam is a lot less than what I expected.

What I did was simply to replace the shred glyph with the mangle glyph and then use the standard simulationcraft rotation (which while not being the absolute best, it's very close nevertheless), replacing shred with mangle and removing the rip-extension-shred action line.

"classic": 11698 dps
mangle-spam: 11031 dps.

It's a 5.7% loss, sure, but the advantage you gain is that the positioning requirements are relaxed. Also, if you're not taking advantage of the rip extension, the difference will be even lower (for example a Valithiria-like many-adds fight). It may not be worth switching over all the time, but respec in some special cases may turn out useful.

kalbear · 03/23/10, 3:01 PM

His thinking is the following: "bleeds scale off AP, strength is best AP stat for cats, hence I gem strength."

Now I'm not the mainstream person to always do what random people say is good, but this just sounds so stupid, even if these things he sais are true, why would this (not?) be the better stat to gem for in cat gear. Bleeds ARE a big part of my dps, but shred and melee whites still top my list. Notable fact: weirdly enough he is competing in dps with the other feral cats in my guild who gem whatever rawr tells them to gem.

While every single ability a cat has that does damage does scale off strength, it doesn't mean that stacking other stats isn't better. Strength and AP do nothing for combo point generation, they do nothing for critical damage, and (this is the big one) they don't do enough to increase the average damage compared to armor pen or agility.

That being said - if they're already at the arpen cap and the crit cap, it's certainly a competitive stat to stack.

Just...don't make the mistake that because it does benefit 100% of your abilities that it's better than something that only benefits 70% of your DPS - because that doesn't say how much it benefits said abilities.

mcell090 · 03/24/10, 3:18 AM

Originally Posted by HaklePrime

I suspect you're clipping your Rake. Not only will clipping your Rake often produce the bug of not applying the debuff, it's also a DPS loss. Don't clip Rake.

can you explain this alittle more what do you mean by clipping

Usernaem · 03/24/10, 3:28 AM

Originally Posted by mcell090

can you explain this alittle more what do you mean by clipping

Clipping means refreshing the DoT before it actually finishes.

For example, say you get 8 ticks in a DoT (1 per 2 seconds, resulting in a 16 second DoT).

0:00 - DoT is applied
0:02 - DoT's first tick
0:04 - DoT's second tick
0:06 - DoT's third tick
0:08 - DoT's fourth tick
0:10 - DoT's fifth tick
0:12 - DoT's sixth tick
0:14 - DoT's seventh tick
0:15 - DoT is reapplied
0:16 - DoT's eighth tick IS MISSING BECAUSE YOU REAPPLIED IT TOO EARLY!
0:17 - DoT's first tick

etc.

Diabetesh · 03/24/10, 1:16 PM

What happened to Feral By Night? Did the creator get busy, stop playing, even die? I love the timers and no other addon just works as well. Just wondering because with 3.3.3 it will not let me log in if I have it in my addon folder.

Leafkiller · 03/24/10, 2:06 PM

Originally Posted by Usernaem

Clipping means refreshing the DoT before it actually finishes.

For example, say you get 8 ticks in a DoT (1 per 2 seconds, resulting in a 16 second DoT).

0:00 - DoT is applied
0:02 - DoT's first tick
0:04 - DoT's second tick
0:06 - DoT's third tick
0:08 - DoT's fourth tick
0:10 - DoT's fifth tick
0:12 - DoT's sixth tick
0:14 - DoT's seventh tick
0:15 - DoT is reapplied
0:16 - DoT's eighth tick IS MISSING BECAUSE YOU REAPPLIED IT TOO EARLY!
0:17 - DoT's first tick

etc.

Rake is worse than that - often, if you clip it, the DOT will not be reapplied at all and you will need to Rake again. It is easy to test this on a training dummy.