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Old 10/07/09, 4:33 PM   #1
 Hamlet
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Mal'Ganis
TreeCalcs: WrathCalcs, respecced

Ok, so since I'm playing Resto most of the time these days, and I already had this great Moonkin spreadsheet sitting around, I retooled it for Resto purposes. For those of you who've never used WrathCalcs, the focus is on providing accurate marginal values of stats/talents. The basic idea is to have accurate numbers on what all our spells do. Obviously we're not always playing to maximize some numerical output like DPS are, but good spellcasting decisions rely on knowing how much each of our spells do, and perhaps more importantly, good gearing decisions require knowing what each stat does for all of our spells. For now, it's focused on raw HPET of all healing spells, but I can refine that if it becomes important for anything.

Input stats/setup on the front page. Next to each stat/talent/set bonus, etc., there will be marginal HPS/MP5 benefits. For stats, it shows the benefit of having 1 more of that stat. For talents and other bonuses, it shows a) if you have no points in the talent, the value you would gain from one point, b) if you have points, the value you currently gain from those points (i.e. the amount you would lose by dropping them).
All of these computations are derived from a spellcasting cycle you pick in the bottom-right corner. For now I lazily just put in a Rejuv5-WG one to get going, but I'll add more as I think about useful spellcasting scenarios to model.

Since healing, unlike DPS, isn't quite as focused on the singular output from one rotation of spells, the second page becomes a bit more important. It lists all spells, the HPS/MP5 of each, and the amount which that HPS/HPM of each would increase from added points of spellpower/haste/crit. The top box on this page will also contain a bit more info on spellcasting cycles once I come up with them.

Any suggestions are welcome. Basically, the framework is there to model any combination of spells--tell me which ones you think would be useful to add. Also, ignore all the residual Moonkin stuff; it will just get worked out as I replace it.

Updated version lives here now:
Resto PvE Compendium and General Discussion

Last edited by Hamlet : 02/04/10 at 3:26 PM.

Links: Moonkin Resto WoWMath Twitter YouTube
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Old 10/08/09, 8:13 AM   #2
 Tecton
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Excellent idea, will be useful to get more into the guts of resto rotations.

Perhaps add options to analyse the effect the 3.3 changes will have on our rotations (new glyph for hasted Rejuvenation, one less Rejuvenation tick per cast, tier set bonuses)?

Also, shouldn't Healing Received & All Haste have an HPS value attributed in Raid De/Buffs? Focus Magic is showing as a negative HPS value if you don't have the buff, I think that should be a zero value with extra HPS being attributed if you do have it? Just a quick look during my lunch break, will have a closer look tonight.

Please contact me via PM/Twitter regarding any issues with Wrathcalcs or Treecalcs rather than whispering me in-game.

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Old 10/08/09, 8:43 AM   #3
Erdluf
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Looks pretty good. I didn't realize Tranq benefited from EmpRej, but logs confirm you are right.

With 4t9, Insightful should provide some HPS (21 Int, and int is showing .32 HPS with 4t9).

There is now an 8% BoK (Drums). Probably an issue on Wrathcalcs, too.

If tabs like Regrowth would show min/max non-crit, min/max crit, and min/max Living Seed, it would be easier for people to compare the spreadsheet with logs, and find bugs (either in the spreadsheet, or in their input to the spreadsheet).

Glyph of Healing Touch is additive (subtractive) with GoN. So HT formula should be
... (1+.02*GoN-if(GHTActive,.5)) ...
Reference is here.

For tank healing rotations, I like to assume that on average, Rj and Rg is refreshed a bit late (so perhaps the Rg is cast, on average every 28s, and Rj is cast, on average, every 19s, currently). The only way to not be late is to sometimes not be casting (or to clip a HoT).

If using a Lb3Slow, I assume that the initial cast (after the bloom) is a bit late, and that one of the two "refresh" casts is an entire tick too early.

If someone has Glyph of Regrowth, the tank cycle should be 8 ticks and roughly 25s.

In your first post in this thread, you misspelled "haste" as "hit."

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Old 10/08/09, 1:35 PM   #4
 Hamlet
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The 3.3 Rejuv-haste idea wouldn't do anything in this model, since it doesn't change the HPET of Rejuv casts. The 2T10 I can put in once we know the numbers. 4T10 will basically just a be a multiplicative buff to Rejuv--doesn't change too much materially.

Right now the All Healing Recieved raidbuff doesn't do anything since it assumed you have it from your own Tree form. I'm going to take that out; then you'll be able to see the individual effects of ToL mana reduction, iToL, ToL aura, and MSS more easily.

Erdluf:
The meta/Spark lines only show the proc/bonus on the item, not the passive stats gain. Basically, things are always set up so the stat values in the top-left match those you should see on your Armory--makes it much easier to use. So the "Insightful" line right now only shows the gain from the proc (also, I think I have to fix the way the "Ember" one works).

Right now I'm approximating slightly on HoT reapplication times being instantaneous. It's the same assumption that's always been made in WC--it would probably complicate things a lot to try to estimate the gap. I'll consider adding half a GCD to each. LB stacking already accounts for clipped tick--I should add it somehow to Regrowth.

Links: Moonkin Resto WoWMath Twitter YouTube
Please don't PM requests for advice on UI or specific gear choices.

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Old 10/08/09, 6:26 PM   #5
 Hamlet
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Updated--fixed BoK, Ember meta, LB rolling, Tree form, Glyph of HT.

Links: Moonkin Resto WoWMath Twitter YouTube
Please don't PM requests for advice on UI or specific gear choices.

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Old 10/13/09, 6:34 PM   #6
 Hamlet
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Added a version reflecting known 3.3 PTR changes.

Links: Moonkin Resto WoWMath Twitter YouTube
Please don't PM requests for advice on UI or specific gear choices.

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Old 10/17/09, 5:54 PM   #7
 Hamlet
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Updated--put Rejuv tick back in, added a simple model for T10 set bonuses and T10 idol.

Links: Moonkin Resto WoWMath Twitter YouTube
Please don't PM requests for advice on UI or specific gear choices.

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Old 10/23/09, 10:49 PM   #8
 Hamlet
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Updated 3.3 sheet for newest GOTEM functionality.

Links: Moonkin Resto WoWMath Twitter YouTube
Please don't PM requests for advice on UI or specific gear choices.

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Old 10/30/09, 9:39 PM   #9
 Hamlet
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Apparently the 2T10 is datamined to be "reduces WG decay by 30%." I put in my best guess as to how that will work numerically. I'm pretty sure it's a pathetic set bonus regardless of how precisely it works.

Links: Moonkin Resto WoWMath Twitter YouTube
Please don't PM requests for advice on UI or specific gear choices.

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Old 11/02/09, 11:09 AM   #10
Kirbie44
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When I plug in Ember to the meta, it gives me like a 11.94 HPS increase. I understand that the 25 SP from this is figured in the above SP part, but how does the 2% int figure in as HPS? Or what part is altering it. Chances are I am missing something big, but I didn't dig through the spreadsheet TOO much, as it is a little easier to ask how you set it up.

EDIT: I do not have Lunar Guidance on the spreadsheet.

Last edited by Kirbie44 : 11/02/09 at 11:10 AM. Reason: Adding more.

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Old 11/02/09, 11:23 AM   #11
 Hamlet
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Originally Posted by Kirbie44 View Post
When I plug in Ember to the meta, it gives me like a 11.94 HPS increase. I understand that the 25 SP from this is figured in the above SP part, but how does the 2% int figure in as HPS? Or what part is altering it. Chances are I am missing something big, but I didn't dig through the spreadsheet TOO much, as it is a little easier to ask how you set it up.

EDIT: I do not have Lunar Guidance on the spreadsheet.
Do you have 4T9? Then the int gives a bit of crit. Can't think of anything else offhand.

Links: Moonkin Resto WoWMath Twitter YouTube
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Old 11/02/09, 11:35 AM   #12
Kirbie44
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Originally Posted by Arawethion View Post
Do you have 4T9? Then the int gives a bit of crit. Can't think of anything else offhand.
entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

Aye, that is exactly what it is. But isn't that intellect already figured into the base stats at the top of the page?

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Old 11/02/09, 11:41 AM   #13
 Hamlet
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Originally Posted by Kirbie44 View Post
entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

Aye, that is exactly what it is. But isn't that intellect already figured into the base stats at the top of the page?
Yes. But for all talents/bonuses that add to your "armory stats" (Ember, iMotW, Lunar Guidance, Living Spirit), the sheet jumps through some hoops to still accurately figure out how much you're getting from the talent.

Links: Moonkin Resto WoWMath Twitter YouTube
Please don't PM requests for advice on UI or specific gear choices.

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Old 11/05/09, 8:53 AM   #14
Tupsi
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Hello

I am trying to figure out what and where to put into the MP5 cell (C9) as inside it has a formula saying

=195*15/(45+10*'Rejuv Calcs'!C15)
(3.3 sheet has)
=21 + 241*15/(45+10*'Rejuv Calcs'!C15)
so I would assume that "195" or "241" are you counted MP5 gear numbers and I would have to put mine at that place replacing only these numbers and leaving the rest of the forumula intact?

You might think about moving that forumula to another cell and leave C9 just for the raw number for confused users like me in the future :-)

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Old 11/05/09, 2:03 PM   #15
 Hamlet
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Originally Posted by Tupsi View Post
Hello

I am trying to figure out what and where to put into the MP5 cell (C9) as inside it has a formula saying

=195*15/(45+10*'Rejuv Calcs'!C15)
(3.3 sheet has)
=21 + 241*15/(45+10*'Rejuv Calcs'!C15)
so I would assume that "195" or "241" are you counted MP5 gear numbers and I would have to put mine at that place replacing only these numbers and leaving the rest of the forumula intact?

You might think about moving that forumula to another cell and leave C9 just for the raw number for confused users like me in the future :-)
No, I was just estimating my own MP5 return from Sif's/Show of Faith. Just put into that box whatever is your static MP5 value from gear bonuses.

Links: Moonkin Resto WoWMath Twitter YouTube
Please don't PM requests for advice on UI or specific gear choices.

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Old 11/05/09, 4:07 PM   #16
 Hamlet
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Fixed a bug with value of Genesis.

Links: Moonkin Resto WoWMath Twitter YouTube
Please don't PM requests for advice on UI or specific gear choices.

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Old 11/05/09, 4:20 PM   #17
 Hamlet
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Originally Posted by Blackpatch View Post
Something feels off about the math though. If you count up the losses from SP, crit, haste, INT, and SPI for losing 4T9 from a situation of 3500 SP, 400 crit, 500 haste, 1100 INT, 1100 SPI, you get a loss of 2515 HPS. But the spreadsheet only calls this a loss of 1700 HPS for dropping 4T9. Whatever the exact truth is, I think the point stands: 4T9 is not to be dropped lightly.
The latter computation is correct. Think about what you're doing in the former--it doesn't quite make sense. The marginal value for, say, spellpower is the value of one point of spellpower in your current setup. It is not the average value of each point of spellpower from 0 up to your current value. When you change something, say T9, you can't obtain the total change in the contribution from spellpower by multiplying the change in the marginal value by the total spellpower. You'd have to integrate the change in marginal value over the whole range of spellpower from 0 up to your current value.

I know this explanation isn't totally clear, but I think you're facile enough with calculus see what I'm saying.

Links: Moonkin Resto WoWMath Twitter YouTube
Please don't PM requests for advice on UI or specific gear choices.

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Old 11/30/09, 1:36 PM   #18
Erdluf
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Echo Isles
treecalcs_091105_3.3.xls

Spreadsheet is showing 38 MP5 for [Flask of Pure Mojo]. In 3.2, MP5 items got buffed. Wowhead is now showing 45 MP5.

WTB: A spreadsheet function to update gear stats from online databases.

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Old 11/30/09, 1:47 PM   #19
 Hamlet
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Hey, if anyone wants to design one of those fancy frontends for both WrathCalcs and TreeCalcs (they're basically the same sheet) where you have dropdowns for everything and stats are automatically imported, etc., that would be great! I know that's the norm these days and these sheets aren't at all user-friendly in comparison. But it's a lot of development work I'm probably never going to get around to doing myself.

Links: Moonkin Resto WoWMath Twitter YouTube
Please don't PM requests for advice on UI or specific gear choices.

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Old 12/10/09, 1:04 PM   #20
 Hamlet
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New version up with Ephemeral Snowflake and a few other minor things.

Links: Moonkin Resto WoWMath Twitter YouTube
Please don't PM requests for advice on UI or specific gear choices.

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Old 12/11/09, 5:42 AM   #21
Dendrek
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I'm curious why the Healing Touch calculation for cast time includes a "MAX([...],1+InstantDelay)". I'm not sure what the InstantDelay is (perhaps this speaks to a lack of understanding of the cast mechanics in WoW) and I don't see a need to have the 1 second minimum GCD used in the base cast time calculation for HT. Clearly the GCD will be a limiting factor in being able to cast spells after HT is cast (if its cast time is less than the GCD), but if HT is used as a flash heal, rather than as a spammed heal, it would be worth knowing how long after the cast starts will the heal occur.

I can see a need to show the difference between the actual cast time vs the effective cast time, but I wouldn't recommend trumping the actual cast time by the effective cast time.

[edit] When I first saw the "InstantDelay" in that formula I wasn't sure if it was a hidden spell/cast time mechanic that I wasn't aware of. However, I've come to realize that it's most likely your estimation of the delay caused by latency/reaction time between the GCD and the start of the next cast of any spell. (Just wanted to clarify that I understand what this is so there's no need to explain it.)

Last edited by Dendrek : 12/11/09 at 7:12 PM.

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Old 12/15/09, 12:40 PM   #22
Kirbie44
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Haste rating at which the GCD hits 1s with Nature's Grace up
Do you mean without? This is in your comment for the GCD Haste Cap at the bottom right of the Character Sheet tab.

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Old 12/15/09, 1:49 PM   #23
 Hamlet
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Originally Posted by Kirbie44 View Post
Do you mean without? This is in your comment for the GCD Haste Cap at the bottom right of the Character Sheet tab.
Whoops, you're right. Think I just copied that from the Moonkin sheet.

Links: Moonkin Resto WoWMath Twitter YouTube
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Old 01/02/10, 6:33 PM   #24
Hatesfury
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Suramar
Arawethion, Could i get a little bit of help reading\understaind the Rotations page. It's very well laid out and i love it, but i'm not sure how to read this part:

Healing done 284953.7846
Mana spent 12703.86827
HPS 10553.84387
HPM 22.43047382
MP5 2352.568198

Mana spent makes sense (and is really good to know especially for tank healing) but what are you trying to represent with the MP5 value... How much MP5 you would need to "cover" this rotation, how much mana you actually used after MP5 is applied, or how much mana you gained FROM MP5 during the rotation.

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Old 01/02/10, 7:23 PM   #25
 Hamlet
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The "Rotations" page just feeds HPS, HPM, and MP5 up to the "Rotations and DPS" page (page 2)--you don't need to look it at directly (unless you're looking for more detail or to see how the sheet works).

If you look at page 2, "Regen needed" is the total mana usage of that rotation--how much is needed to cover your casting indefinitely (this is the MP5 value from the final page). The next column, "Excess MP5" is your net MP5 usage obtained after taking your regen into account. This is what's shown on the front page for your selected rotation.

HPM and MP5 are actually kind of redundant. The distinction mattered more in the Moonkin version of the sheet when there was also regen from Moonkin Form and JoW, that depended on how many spells you cast.

Links: Moonkin Resto WoWMath Twitter YouTube
Please don't PM requests for advice on UI or specific gear choices.

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