Visualising the optimal cat rotation ingame - Page 13

Blizzi · 01/29/10, 11:02 AM

Ok thanks
The new version of ovale solved my problem.
Now is works and i am testing the dps rate.

Umah · 01/29/10, 11:10 AM

First of all, thanks for creating this awesome script. Since around version 1.5 or 1.7 I use it instead of FBN.

Today I tried your new 2.7 version, and its much better. Less often it recommends to actually use SR even though you a.) do not have 5 CP, b.) still have 5-7sec SR to go, c.) have enough energy to Shred. Is there a "reason" for that (I have timer bars and work around that suggestion most often, is the reason the priority to decouple Rip and SR?).

Then: FBN still seems to work nice mostly, the great thing about an ovale script is that everyone "can" update and modify it, if you are gone. Though we will rely on your work

.

On version 1.8 I reformatted the code to make it more easy to read and understand on the fly for me. Some comments would help (yet too lazy). Basically each time I open a block or condition I use a tab indent. I reformatted 2.7a - if you like it just take it, else just drop it.

#Project: Visualising the optimal cat rotation ingame
#Script Version: 2.7a (modifed code formatting)

Define(FFF 16857)
Define(FF 770)
Define(RIP 1079)
Define(MANGLE 33876)
Define(SHRED 5221)
Define(TIGER 5217)
Define(RAKE 59886)
Define(ROAR 52610)
Define(BITE 22568)
Define(BERSERK 50334)
Define(OMEN 16870)
Define(TRAUMA 46857)
Define(MANGLEB 33878)
Define(GRASP 16689)
SpellInfo(RIP resetcounter=ripshreds)
SpellInfo(SHRED inccounter=ripshreds)
AddCheckBox(Manglebot "Manglebot" default)

AddIcon help=main {
	unless Stance(1) { # Is not Bear Form
		if ComboPoints(more 0) and BuffExpires(ROAR 0) Spell(ROAR priority=4)
		if ComboPoints(more 2) and BuffExpires(ROAR 8) and TargetDebuffPresent(RIP mine=1) and at most 3s from TargetDebuffExpires(Rip mine=1) until BuffExpires(ROAR) and TargetDeadIn(more 8) {
			unless BuffPresent(OMEN) Spell(ROAR priority=4)
		}
		if ComboPoints(more 3) and TargetDeadIn(less 2) Spell(BITE)
		if ComboPoints(more 4) {
			if TargetDeadIn(less 6) Spell(BITE)
			unless TargetDebuffPresent(RIP mine=1) Spell(RIP priority=4)
			unless TargetDebuffExpires(RIP 8 mine=1) or BuffExpires(ROAR 11) Spell(BITE)
		}
		if TargetDebuffPresent(RIP mine=1) and TargetDebuffExpires(RIP 4 mine=1) and Counter(ripshreds less 3) Spell(SHRED)
		if CheckBoxOn(Manglebot) and TargetDebuffExpires (MANGLE 1) Spell(MANGLE)
		unless { TargetDebuffPresent(MANGLE) or TargetDebuffPresent(MANGLEB) or TargetDebuffPresent(TRAUMA) } Spell(MANGLE)
		unless TargetDebuffPresent(RAKE mine=1) or TargetDeadIn(less 10) Spell(RAKE)
		if TargetDeadIn(less 10) Spell(SHRED)
	}
}

AddIcon help=main size=small nocd=3 {
	unless Stance(1) { # Is not Bear Form
		if { TargetDebuffPresent(MANGLE 0.5) or TargetDebuffPresent(MANGLEB 0.5) or TargetDebuffPresent(TRAUMA 0.5) } and Mana(more 79) or BuffPresent(OMEN) or { TargetDebuffExpires(RIP 3 mine=1) and ComboPoints(less 5) } or BuffPresent(BERSERK) or 2s before Spell(TIGER) or { ComboPoints(less 1) and BuffExpires(ROAR 2) } Spell(SHRED)
	}
	unless BuffPresent(BERSERK) or 4s before Spell(TIGER) or Mana(more 32) {
		unless { TargetDebuffPresent(FFF) or TargetDebuffPresent(FF) } Spell(FFF priority=2)
		Spell(GRASP priority=1)
	}
}

AddIcon help=cd size=small nocd=3 {
	unless Stance(1) { # Is not Bear Form
		Spell(TIGER priority=4)
	}
}

AddIcon help=cd size=small nocd=5 {
	unless Stance(1) { # Is not Bear Form
		Spell(BERSERK)
	}
}

@ Blizzi: 2.7 itself, worked for me!? Maybe you got an copy+paste error.

Gallowglass · 01/29/10, 2:16 PM

I noticed 2 things I dont get about the 2.7a script after some time on the test dummies.

1 - I'm at 4 CPs with rip just expired, plenty of time on roar and rake about to expire in 3-4 seconds, i currently have ~60 energy. It's telling me to wait to reapply the rake instead of shred, rip and then rake - which would all be doable by the time rake needs refreshing.

2 - Rip and roar are both up, plenty of time on both, im low on energy and CPs, rake is expiring in 4 seconds, so its telling me to rake in 4 seconds - makes sence, but I get an OOC proc, its still telling me to wait to reapply rake instead of using the OOC on a shred and then re-applying rake.

It is possible that I'm just not used to the new layout and am missing something. Loving the work Furion - and while I agree with you that blindly following the script is flawed in a lot of the encounters, it's still awesome to have around.

Furion · 01/29/10, 2:57 PM

I hoped it would be self explanatory... but maybe it's just my view of the rotation.

Edit:
Alright my view on the feral rotation is that there is a main rotation which is finishers, mangle, rake, "rip extending shreds" and shredding when the target is about to die. All of those have a very high priority. Only when none of these actions needs to be used there is time for fillers which is mainly shred under various conditions (OOC, energy higher than 79 berserk up etc) other current fillers are nature's grasp and FFF. In order to not block the view on your main rotation i decided to direct the filler moves to a second window so they dont obstruct your view on the important stuff. So you use shred whenever its up in the second icon from left and there is currently no action to do in the main rotation. I think this is a better approach but might need some more tuning.

and here is 2.7b

#Project: Visualising the optimal cat rotation ingame
#Script Version: 2.7b
Define(FFF 16857)
Define(FF 770)
Define(RIP 1079)
Define(MANGLE 33876)
Define(SHRED 5221)
Define(TIGER 5217)
Define(RAKE 59886)
Define(ROAR 52610)
Define(BITE 22568)
Define(BERSERK 50334)
Define(OMEN 16870)
Define(TRAUMA 46857)
Define(MANGLEB 33878)
Define(GRASP 16689)
SpellInfo(RIP resetcounter=ripshreds)
SpellInfo(SHRED inccounter=ripshreds)
AddCheckBox(Manglebot "Manglebot" default)

AddIcon help=main
{
unless Stance(1) # bear
	{
	if ComboPoints(more 0) and BuffExpires(ROAR 0) Spell(ROAR priority=4)
	if ComboPoints(more 2) and BuffExpires(ROAR 8) and TargetDebuffPresent(RIP mine=1) and at most 3s from TargetDebuffExpires(Rip mine=1) until BuffExpires(ROAR) and TargetDeadIn(more 8) {unless BuffPresent(OMEN) Spell(ROAR priority=4)}
	if ComboPoints(more 3) and TargetDeadIn(less 2) Spell(BITE)
	if ComboPoints(more 4)
		{
		if TargetDeadIn(less 6) Spell(BITE)
		unless TargetDebuffPresent(RIP mine=1) Spell(RIP priority=4)
		unless TargetDebuffExpires(RIP 8 mine=1) or BuffExpires(ROAR 11) Spell(BITE)
		}
	if TargetDebuffPresent(RIP mine=1) and TargetDebuffExpires(RIP 4 mine=1) and Counter(ripshreds less 3) Spell(SHRED)
	if CheckBoxOn(Manglebot) and TargetDebuffExpires (MANGLE 1) Spell(MANGLE)
	unless {TargetDebuffPresent(MANGLE) or TargetDebuffPresent(MANGLEB) or TargetDebuffPresent(TRAUMA)} Spell(MANGLE)
	unless TargetDebuffPresent(RAKE mine=1) or TargetDeadIn(less 10) Spell(RAKE)
	if TargetDeadIn(less 10) Spell(SHRED)
	}
}

AddIcon help=main size=small nocd=3
{
unless Stance(1) # bear
	{
	if {TargetDebuffPresent(MANGLE 0.5) or TargetDebuffPresent(MANGLEB 0.5) or TargetDebuffPresent(TRAUMA 0.5)} and Mana(more 79) or BuffPresent(OMEN) or {TargetDebuffExpires(RIP 3 mine=1) and ComboPoints(less 5)} or BuffPresent(BERSERK) or 2s before Spell(TIGER) or {ComboPoints(less 1) and BuffExpires(ROAR 2)} Spell(SHRED)
	} 
	unless {BuffPresent(BERSERK) or 4s before Spell(TIGER) or Mana(more 32)}
		{
		unless {TargetDebuffPresent(FFF) or TargetDebuffPresent(FF)} Spell(FFF priority=2)
    		Spell(GRASP priority=1)
		}
}


AddIcon help=cd size=small nocd=3
{
unless Stance(1) # bear
	{
	Spell(TIGER priority=4)
	}
}

AddIcon help=cd size=small nocd=5
{
unless Stance(1) # bear
    {
    Spell(BERSERK)
    }
}

xanthic42 · 01/29/10, 6:05 PM

I very much appreciate your work with this ovale script, and saw a dps boost over 2.2 using 2.7b. I however found the "fillers" being another spot to be confusing and ended up modifying your script so that they were part of the main box again. Also based on the "Best Possible Feral DPS in SimulationCraft" thread I moved the

	if TargetDebuffPresent(RIP mine=1) and TargetDebuffExpires(RIP 4 mine=1) and Counter(ripshreds less 3) Spell(SHRED)

above the

	if ComboPoints(more 4)
		{
		if TargetDeadIn(less 6) Spell(BITE)
		unless TargetDebuffPresent(RIP mine=1) Spell(RIP priority=4)
		unless TargetDebuffExpires(RIP 8 mine=1) or BuffExpires(ROAR 11) Spell(BITE)
		}

Although I was only checking the manglebot simcraft since I am the only feral and there are no arms warriors in my guild.

chetal · 01/29/10, 11:29 PM

@xanthic42

I am fairly sure the mangle bot part of that thread has not been updated in ages, so the action list from the shred profile is most likely better.

xanthic42 · 01/30/10, 12:52 AM

Looks like the same logic in the shred profile

actions+=/shred,extend_rip=1,rip<=4
actions+=/rip,cp>=5,time_to_die>=6
actions+=/ferocious_bite,cp>=5,time_to_die<=6
actions+=/ferocious_bite,cp>=5,rip>=8,savage_roar>=11

Furion · 01/30/10, 1:56 AM

Xanthic your suggestion makes no difference in dps for the shred profile (I assume a conflicting situation just never occurs). For the mangle profile I actually found this to be a small dps decrease for the profiles I currently use in SC which produce better DPS than the ones in the BiS thread. However it's true that with currently attainable gear your suggestion will be a dps increase so I'll add it to my script.

Also I am quite confident about the filler approach. Just treat the filler shreds exactly as you would normally treat an OOC proc which is something every feral should have a grasp on.

Leafkiller · 01/30/10, 4:05 AM

Something I am wondering about. The code for executing Ferocious Bite is ahead of Mangle and Rake - so even if these debuffs fall off they will be prioritized after the Bite (should the conditions for doing a Bite be met). Again, coming from the perspective of having the 4 piece T10 set bonus I can't help but wonder if the Bite should be delayed if Rake has fallen off the target. I saw this happen with Rake while testing the 2.7b code.

As a side note on having a separate box for the filler - I didn't find that workable for me so I recombined everything into a single box display (including TF). I am thinking of an alternate approach using a similar theme though - of having one box with everything included, and a second box where all fillers are removed. This would provide a view of what the next likely skill would be while still providing a single recommendation box.

Edit: Just tested with a the 2 box setup where one is a full rotation and the other has no fillers - worked pretty good as it was useful to see what was coming - a poor man's predictor.

Furion · 01/30/10, 5:11 AM

Originally Posted by Leafkiller

from the perspective of having the 4 piece T10 set bonus I can't help but wonder if the Bite should be delayed if Rake has fallen off the target. I saw this happen with Rake while testing the 2.7b code.

4 T10 is an awesome setbonus but you will need to come up with better evidence as Simcraft shows this as a noteable dps loss with BiS gear (which includes 4 T10). In the end it will probably depend on your stats (esp. arp) which is more important to do. Once I acquire 4 T10 I'll do some sc testing with my current gear. Also rake still has a lower priority than rip extending shreds.

Originally Posted by Leafkiller

I am thinking of an alternate approach using a similar theme though - of having one box with everything included, and a second box where all fillers are removed. This would provide a view of what the next likely skill would be while still providing a single recommendation box.

Edit: Just tested with a the 2 box setup where one is a full rotation and the other has no fillers - worked pretty good as it was useful to see what was coming - a poor man's predictor.

While I liked the suggestion at first this still has the main problem why I decided to switch: It's annoying and confusing to suddenly have shreds pop up and/or icons rapidly switching back and forth. My approach has the advantage that I only have to look to the 2nd window when there is nothing to do and it's only shown when there is a low priorty move to do. I can only recommend to try and get used to the new approach as I really think its better and thus I will probably not return to the old 1 Button style one way or another as the new approach seems to reflect much closer how the feral rotation currently works. Thus adapting to the new style didn't take me long.

Zantada · 01/30/10, 2:11 PM

I really like the two box approach now as it gives me a greater discipline in not clipping moves, the only weird thing was how little I imagine I would use nature's grasp on a boss fight. ;-)

This is great stuff, thank you for doing it.

Umah · 01/30/10, 9:52 PM

After reading your explanation and re-testing at a dummy I can only agree: it is much better, and for the first time feels really complete.

Mihir · 01/31/10, 4:17 AM

Looks like it has finally become a worthy replacement for FbN

Thanks for all the hard work on this, maybe a good time to update the startpost with the 2.7b version?

Edit: just saw coldbear already suggested that, so instead i should ask, do you think it's getting close to final version yet?
In any case the 2.7b is loads better than the 2.2 in the startpost so might be a good idea to add it as an alternative anyway.

Furion · 01/31/10, 6:09 AM

Thanks for the encouraging words.
I still need to test the new style in raid environment and I'm also thinking about ways to optimise it and I also hope for some user input about how to do that. I want the next release to be as polished and tested as possible because it's quite different. If there is more radical change to the way the displaying works participating in this process might not be for everyone, as people aren't necessarily keen on adapting frequently and might be confused or frustrated by testing out every crazy idea that might come to my mind. But I don't think the final version is too far away.

Malldito · 01/31/10, 1:06 PM

Under Interface options in the "Help" section, turn of check the box"Disable Lua Errors".

Great work Furion and every one who has contributed. The only "problem" I have run into was Ovale recommending NG until I pressed the hot-key. Obviously I choose to deviate from Ovale in this case and don't know if this can be fixed. Otherwise, with version 2.7b (after some personalization) I noticed a DPS increase on the test dummy from 2.6.