Visualising the optimal cat rotation ingame - Page 9

Tressel · 12/30/09, 1:54 PM

After updating to 3.3.7 with curse updater and updating the code to 1.9b, I'm not seeing anything except the small tiger's fury icon. Is there a way around this as it is giving me syntax errors.

Furion · 12/30/09, 2:03 PM

yes, sorry I'll update the OP to 2.0 already using an updated script myself. Not sure if all the new functions are working properly but they are in, just in case. Just did 9k dps on saurfang following it so it seems to work.

Edit: I had to use an ability which wasn't stated in the script when savage roar was about to drop to build a combopoint so maybe I need to cover that case in the script too

Edit2: It seems that the script does what it should now, mostly.
I'm kind of reluctant to ask for simple feedback for the new version, though, because I don't want to get people banned. So if you just want to say some trivial stuff send me a PM.

Edit3: Version 2.1 up mostly small fixes

Edit4: Version 2.1 fixed again, sorry

Zantada · 12/30/09, 5:27 PM

I might be missing something, why does it count down to an action when I've available energy for that action?

NaturesVoice · 12/30/09, 5:41 PM

The latest version, 2.1, is giving me a lot less dps.
I do tests of 7min on a boss dummy. Version 1.8b was giving me around 5.8k dps. Version 2.1 gives me around 5.3k.
Now my tests are not that accurate but the difference in results is pretty significant.

The odd things I'm seeing in the latest version are:
- despite desynching attemps a lower uptime on Rip
- Shred cooldown while Rake has already expired (I think you fixed this one though with your latest update but the script is still called 2.1 so I'm not sure)
- lots of cooldowns for abilities when energy is availible

I see very often Shred on cooldown, this must have something to do with the idea of energy pooling but as it is right now it's a huge dps loss doing nothing.

Edit: I know what's going on now. The earlier versions didn't have any energy pooling so I did that myself. With the new version I continued doing that so I was pooling while the script was pooling to resulting in staying a lot at 100 energy

Of course that's a big dps loss. My bad I understand the new script better now.

Leafkiller · 12/30/09, 6:00 PM

The tests I just ran on a target dummy looked ok - watching the cooldowns it seemed to be suggesting the right things at the right times. As for energy polling, unless you are hitting a full energy bar doing nothing for some periods of time is not wasted dps.

Marb · 12/30/09, 6:09 PM

I was using Version 1.9a on raid. Logs from tonight:

ToC25 HM

Beasts:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Jaraxxus:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Faction Champs:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Twins:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Damage done total:
(hope this is correct link

)
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Also it looks like the NG might trigger the OOC...

Cluey · 12/31/09, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Torzak

*snip*
50Energy - 35(Rake)= 15 + 20Energy in that 1sec = 35.

So if you have 70+energy and a clearcast proc, it should be more inclined to shred that proc away quickly, as by the time you've done so, you will be at 90 energy during the global of that shred.

If I have looked over something.

Originally Posted by Torzak

**Revisiting Nature's Grasp:
I don't think it procs clearcast while in combat. I've just spent aprox 15mins on a dummy trying it.

I will edit my above to reflect this. This prevents a suggestion of Tiger's Fury while clearcast is up. Before it would suggest Tiger's Fury below 40 energy with a clearcast proc up which would result in a lot of fast lighting Shreds trying to not waste energy that ultimately you really couldn't entirely prevent. 35 Energy + Tiger's Fury with a clear cast proc currently up would result in 95 Energy followed by a shred which results in ~15 energy lost during the global of the shred.

A couple of things here, firstly if you are going to write scripts to tell you and others what to do you need to get the basics right:
The GCD for cat's is one second.
You get 10 energy every second.

While I'm in the thread I thought I would bring up how blindly following move suggesters turns you into a mindless automaton. There are very few fights in current content where all you can do is stand still and do the best DPS you can, if you aren't familiar enough with how cat works to make your own decisions this won't help. The only way to improve is to know what you are supposed to do and do it and that only comes with familiarity.

This topic was brought up in the old FBN thread too and people claimed that they didn't, "just blindly follow it," but they were and when it stopped working they went looking for alternatives. Providing a script for people to use isn't going to make feral druids, as a whole, better. I suspect it will also lead to fire standing because the player is watching which move to press next.

Reading through the thread I see lots of discussion about one second changes for different moves based on conditionals which experienced players will be making themselves, given that the next attack will change in a one second time frame any distraction causing a delay pressing the button is going to result in the conditions changing and suddenly you don't have time to fit in the Ferocious Bite or Rip before you have to refresh things, you are lagging behind the predictor and you have to wait for it to tell you where to start from again. Now I would hope that readers of these forums are trying the harder fights before they are nurfed to death, I would also hope that the players are trying to improve themselves and not stand in fires or get blown up by the ghosts on Lady Deathwhisper.

I don't think I'm a brilliant cat but I'm also not terrible, I don't make many posts these days as there isn't really much new to say. The information is available for those willing to learn but we get post after post of people asking easily answered questions. The new random dungeon has exposed me to some really terrible cat's, ones who can't even beat the tank on the boss fights let alone the trash. You scripts might help them beat the tank on a mob which doesn't move with nothing to distract them but is it helping them improve? Will cat druids become a bad running joke like Deathnights or Ret pallies in +spell damage gear?

Torzak · 12/31/09, 12:25 PM

If it is indeed 10 energy per sec as opposed to 20, then that's something that can be corrected as I had mentioned that if there was anything I over looked, feel free to mention.

As for the rest of your post, I think it's best left ignored.

coldbear · 12/31/09, 3:12 PM

It's perfectly legitimate to question what spreading this will do to the community, but really there's nothing wrong with giving people options and at the same time telling them of the risks and guidelines for use as Furion did so clearly in the OP - especially given that the feral dps algorithm is one of the more complicated in the game.

In the end it's a crutch. A crutch is a tool - you throw it away when you don't need it. Ovale can help people learn very complex behaviours that they otherwise would be S.O.L. on by themselves.

Mediocre players such as myself with good to great situational awareness (S.A.) will make heavy use of these scripts to for target-dummy practice and let us work harder on S.A., Innervate-target awareness and general fight skills. Others will surely not need it or mis-use this tool. Either case, keep up the good work and realize that some people will always be opposed to this, and others just as dead set for it.

((Also, new icon. wow_ladies: Hello everyone,I recently lost my job an and $5 for a custom-made icon by an artist who just lost her job.))

chetal · 12/31/09, 4:36 PM

@Cluey

Ferals do gain 10 energy per second and out global is 1 second.

I agree that playing blindly based on a script can lead to people dying/taking damage from avoidable sources but that doesn't mean ovale and this script does not have a purpose. Someone who dies to fire or what have you is most likely going to die to it either way. It is not like if you do not use a script you still do not have to watch timers to calculate what to do. Focusing too much on timers and not to what is going on will lead u to the same place as blindly watching a script.

Feral is not a spec that you can one day just learn and hit the correct buttons without paying attention to procs and timers. Whether u are watching a script or watching your timers you are watching something.

Also, here is a little updated code that I have been adding to my script to suggest TF. Suggesting to use TF at energy 40 and below is what you should technically do, but since there is a small delay in when u see the suggestion and when u process it I have found it useful to only suggest it when you are at 35 or below energy. This way you will almost always get the full 60 energy.

unless BuffPresent(BERSERK) 
                {
                unless BuffPresent(OMEN) if Mana(less 36) Spell(TIGER)
                }

I would also like to suggest a toggle for adding TF to the rotation as a compromise for the people who would like it suggested.
The following added would do the trick.

AddCheckBox(TF SpellName(TIGER))

if CheckBoxOn(TF) unless BuffPresent(BERSERK) 
                {
                unless BuffPresent(OMEN) if Mana(less 36) Spell(TIGER)
                }

Furion · 01/04/10, 3:14 AM

Update: Implemented 2 new features from Sidoine in my script, one of them fixing a line that didn't work before. However I'm not sure wether I will update the script anymore both for personal reasons and because I'm not sure how useful this script really is when not facing patchwerk/saurfang. Maybe there needs to be a different approach that will actually offer the important choices that depend on the environment. Or maybe a better use would actually be to visualise the exact rotation simcraft suggests as that might at least allow us to spot errors in the simcraft profile more easily.

One more thing for people wanting the script to suggest NG to proc OOC (it works but I'm not sure it's really worth the hassle. Spell goes below FFF and define goes below other definitions):

Define(GRASP 16689)
Spell(GRASP priority=1)

Edit: Verify you have the newest ovale version or it won't work!

Marb · 01/04/10, 5:17 AM

Here you go.
I am using this script on raids - only what i added to my ui is power auras - helps me to track ooc better, and i am squzing fb when i feel it is ok to do that - as a script it helps to keep the hmm lets say "rotation" properly on boss.

Lord Marrogwar. (This is not melee friendly fight for me - he is Leo the blind junior for me

)
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Lady D.
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Killing adds wont give you as feral top dps there at all

Saurfang.:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
static fight - so very easy to keep up on top.

SOme Normal CHill Run to TOTC25
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

For Desert, some of ANub25HM wipes:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
we are reaching 15% of his HP now so...

After new wing will be released i will check how script helps on new encounters.

ps.
This is ui which im using right now:
http://i49.tinypic.com/1f7jv8.jpg
Aint takes a lot of memory as previous one..

Anyway id like to say that this script is really great work of everyone.

NaturesVoice · 01/04/10, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Furion

Might just be a user error. Make sure you are using my newest script with the newest version of ovale and both are properly installed.

Thank you, I didn't know there was a new Ovale version released on 2th of January.

Tressel · 01/04/10, 3:52 PM

Originally Posted by NaturesVoice

Thank you, I didn't know there was a new Ovale version released on 2th of January.

Not sure if you know this, but using the Curse downloader updates you on when new versions are available. For instance the new version of OVALE that was just released moments ago.

Jaerin · 01/05/10, 9:33 AM

Originally Posted by Cluey

I don't think I'm a brilliant cat but I'm also not terrible, I don't make many posts these days as there isn't really much new to say. The information is available for those willing to learn but we get post after post of people asking easily answered questions. The new random dungeon has exposed me to some really terrible cat's, ones who can't even beat the tank on the boss fights let alone the trash. You scripts might help them beat the tank on a mob which doesn't move with nothing to distract them but is it helping them improve? Will cat druids become a bad running joke like Deathnights or Ret pallies in +spell damage gear?

I don't think so because honestly the bad cats that I've seen start using a suggester have improved significantly. Not to mention because they don't have to spend nearly as much time keeping track of 4 dots/debuffs they actually have more time to pay attention to environmental things.

I don't think a suggester replaces skill in an overall good player, but it certainly can make a bad or mediocre play passable. Which when you are struggling to get a boss down or fill a raid it can easily make the difference.