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Old 02/18/10, 8:54 AM   #136
Diba
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Tauren Druid
 
Vashj (EU)
Semi-related: I couldn't kill the frostmourne room mob before 1 min Did you guys Bash to interrupt?
As a healer, you're supposed to heal Terenas Menethil. He will do more damage and thus, kill the ghost fast and quick. Bash is the best way to interrupt the channel.

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Old 02/18/10, 9:03 AM   #137
 Hamlet
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Shields no longer prevent Blood Power gain.

e: Right, Terenas Menethil in the Frostmourne room has Light's Favor - Spell - World of Warcraft .


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Old 02/18/10, 10:40 AM   #138
Carnathagia
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Troll Priest
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Pennypacker View Post
I am looking for some advice for 10man HC Saurfang.
So I am wondering how other guilds have managed the healing.
We tried 2-heal attempts early on, then tried to band-aid the marks with 3 healing, but it was obvious that wasn't working either. Our best attempt was slightly sub 20%. Our normally Holy Priest had gone Discipline, but if Shields are not stopping Blood Power gains on Heroic, then he would do better with Holy. I was keeping Regrowth and Rejuvenation on the active tank, Mark target, and Boiling Blood targets, putting up Lifeblooms if Nourish spam wasn't needed, and Swiftmending and Nourish spamming to cover the spikes. The attempt ender was always a huge damage spike on multiple Marked players, sometimes in conjunction Boiling Blood. We'll be trying again with me shifting my focus to the tanks instead of the marks, with the Holy Priest's burstier healing hopefully preventing those deaths. I suggested Heroism at the start with one of the healers fake-dpsing to take off as much health as possible when the healing requirements are low, but we didn't try it. Any feedback from someone who has downed it would be appreciated.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis - Turns out someone parsed the 10 man attempts, which is rare.
With a little more digging through the deaths, it looks like a .8 second swing timer, with 4 unavoided hits killing the Marks.

Last edited by Carnathagia : 02/18/10 at 11:16 AM. Reason: Found Parse

Emraldè - Resto/Balance Druid - Carnathagia - Holy/Disc Priest - Liltankh - Prot/Fury Warrior
Jovavich - Arcane/Fire Mage

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Old 02/18/10, 10:52 AM   #139
 Hamlet
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Mal'Ganis
I haven't tried the 10-man Heroic yet, since I've busy and using every main raid night for the 25. But a Paladin would likely be a big boost at Saurfang. He can lock down 2 Marks himself, even with no HoT's. Paladin/Discipline is probably the best 2-healer setup--I don't know yet how the tuning works out with respect to 2 vs. 3 healers, but DPS tuning is usually light in 10-man and 3-healing things is common. This is the worst fight for Druids in ICC--a Paladin and/or Discipline partner would probably help a lot.


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Old 02/18/10, 11:14 AM   #140
kaellia
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Draenei Shaman
 
Elune
Originally Posted by Arawethion View Post
I haven't tried the 10-man Heroic yet, since I've busy and using every main raid night for the 25. But a Paladin would likely be a big boost at Saurfang. He can lock down 2 Marks himself, even with no HoT's. Paladin/Discipline is probably the best 2-healer setup--I don't know yet how the tuning works out with respect to 2 vs. 3 healers, but DPS tuning is usually light in 10-man and 3-healing things is common. This is the worst fight for Druids in ICC--a Paladin and/or Discipline partner would probably help a lot.
My guild never raids 25 man content on Tuesdays (thanks to amazing server lag on every patch day), so I was able to go in and do this encounter this week.

We initially brought three healers, but for this particular fight, it was absolutely necessary to go down to two. As Hamlet noted, a Paladin and Disc priest is easily the best combo for this fight. They have the best control over the marks, and are able to easily manage the incoming damage. If possible, have your third healer (a druid?) swap to a dps spec for this fight and help burn down Saurfang as fast as possible.

If you're forced to heal it with a druid, make sure your other healer is a disc priest or holy pally. With shields to smooth out the damage really effectively (even though they don't absorb Blood Power anymore) or a beacon of light, this encounter should turn out to be fairly simple. Toss in the RR glyph (if you don't have it already) and take the second and third marks that come out. Yeah, they do more damage on normal mode, but it's not that much more. It might be appealing to pop hero at the beginning, but as things get more hectic at 30%, it's really important to get through the second phase as quickly as possible.

Last edited by kaellia : 02/18/10 at 11:33 AM. Reason: Added some info that I thought was lacking.

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Old 02/18/10, 5:54 PM   #141
Greenpower
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Tauren Druid
 
Nordrassil
In regards to Saurfang:
Are you using RR? I find it immensely useful at Saurfang. Also are you using 4pc t9? Hasted rejuvs, that crit are as good as it gets focus wise, the t10 only helps with spread. Which is why I'm going 258 4pc t9 with haste/crit in all my other slots. T10 might be as good or even marginally better for some fights, but its useless for others, I prefer a controllable bonus.

Sindragosa:
I agree stacking lifeblooms on yourself sounds good, but it also stacks the unchained magic I stick to my regular 5x1 rotation right up to about 10 stacks, and my last (or one of the last) cast is rejuv on myself. Then I'm watching the debuff and hit myself with swiftmend when it hits. I've been as high as 12-13 stacks without it killing me, as long as I have a rejuv on myself to make sure I'm at 100% 10-11 stacks seems perfectly safe. I do like the bearform idea for a bit more safety, and I'd like to see if timing barkskin right won't add a stack. So far I've been using barkskin for every Binding cold cast in case I fuck up, or lag, or camera angle gets screwed. But I haven't got hit in the last 2 weeks so allowing myself to go a couple stacks higher might be a better use of it. *NOTE don't go over 4-5 stacks in p3, not worth the risk.

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Old 02/18/10, 6:03 PM   #142
 Hamlet
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Mal'Ganis
RR and 4T9 are good for Saurfang; I used both as well. Basically use the same special set for Saurfang and Valithria.

I'm not sure what the big deal about Instability is. On Normal, it's not especially dangerous in either situation--you can stack it high and still survive the damage, or you can stop casting for a while and not worry about it because the healing requirement is designed around 3 people being incapacitated at any time. Unless you accidentally plow right through it and kill yourself because you weren't paying attention, Instability just doesn't do much except for causing DPS classes to whine a lot. I'd make a habit of keeping your stack very low, since that will be better preparation for the Heroic.


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Old 02/18/10, 7:46 PM   #143
Harmankaya
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Worgen Priest
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Duohealed this fight with Druid/Shaman, and we wiped 4-5 times to adjust the healing accordingly.
Given my own experiences, my group has very good dps - and I can't really see us killing him before the third mark until we obtain quite a bit better gear.

So, we had to deal with 3 marks + tankdamage every time (I suspect most groups will).
A RR+3xLB+RG would keep a marked target floating, but in combination with the dot said target needed spamhealing to ensure he wasn't gibbed by them ticking simultaneously.
Blood nova poses a constant risk to marked targets since it hits for ~15k, so basically - a marked target needs all hots + constant topping.
After trying lots of different approaches, I kind of gave up and rolled all hots on 2 marked targets and spammed nourish almost continously in between. Taxing on mana, but it did the trick.
It also worth to note that the dps needs to play perfectly and handle adds without getting hit once.

We got lucky, and got the second mark on one of the tanks, so when the third marked popped, I went fulltime on 1 and 3, while the shaman took MT + Marked tank + raid. We pulled it off with a heroism on the third mark, but of the 6 first HC fights, this was by far the hardest to heal.

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Old 02/18/10, 11:20 PM   #144
Dynasu
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Gilneas
General Question

Dropping in to post some thoughts quickly. (Apologies if this should be in the itemization thread, dealt heavily with situations/talents so decided to leave it here.)

From what I know, the two generally accepted restoration talent sets are either 11/0/60 or 17/0/53 , with each spec very much being dependent upon the haste level (735/856 respectively).

I have not seen a lot of discussion upon which spec is more suitable for which type of raids (10s vs 25s). Naturally, I have been under the assumption that 11/0/60 proves superior for 10-man groups due to LS+ET being quite a bit more viable with the restoration druid having responsibilities beyond a 5/1 rotation. As a result, I've generally aimed for non-set gear from Frost Badges and worked to maintain the ~860 haste cap while throwing the Crit/SP pieces in slots I don't need to reach my haste requirements. On the other side, I've assumed 17/0/53 was superior to 11/0/60 for 25-man healing if one doesn't have every single possible piece haste gear in non-tier slots to reach the ~860 cap, since it allows for quite a bit more through-put in gear and gives more leeway to grabbing the tier-gear.

I guess my dilemma at the moment is that I've primarily spent Frost badges on non-tier haste gear/etc. and worked to maintain an ~860 haste cap through Reckless Gems/etc so I could maintain an 11/0/60 for healing 10mans; however, now that my guild is focusing more heavily on 25man raiding, I am reviewing my gear choices and looking for ways to expand in terms of HPS capacities in 25man raiding. I haven't seen a ton of numbers for the T10 set bonuses and am not really sure how "great" they truly are. I fear I may have put too heavy of a value in haste and not enough of a value in the tier gear and straight spellpower.

Long-story short, I'm considering one of two paths as I move forward in 25 (and some 10man heroic/etc.) raiding and was looking for some input:

Option #1: 17/0/53, pick up the 4-PC T10 and stack spell power gems rather than sp/haste.

Option #2: 11/0/60, continue to obtain non-tier gear and continue utilizing sp/haste gems to stay at cap.

Some summarizing questions:
Is either option clearly superior to the other?
How much exactly are the T10 2/4PC bonuses worth?
Should I be focusing at staying at the haste cap more (the 735), or grabbing tier gear and making due with what I've got?

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Old 02/19/10, 5:45 AM   #145
Salyna
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Sargeras
General Consensus seems to be that dropping CF and filling out the resto tree more is better in the long run. Gives more versatility and we're not wasting a point in the balance tree. A lot of the really geared trees right now aren't having much trouble reaching the 856 haste cap with gear/gems. I myself am starting to go back to spell power gems as I get more haste gear, and I'm missing a lot of pieces I really want still!

In 25s though the argument could be made that if you wanted to keep the entire raid hotted at all times just to buffer damage that LS and ET is mostly useless. However, blanket hotting the raid is not the most effective way to heal every encounter, so the 11/0/60 build is probably the way to go if you have enough haste.

You're specific questions:
1. Pretty much answered above. 11/0/60 has the most benefit assuming you have your haste soft capped.

2. 2pt10 isn't very powerful, but its a decent buff to a spell we use often. If you are in a 25 man raid 4pt10 is a pretty awesome bonus, mainly for raid healing fights, and its decent for others. In 10s a lot of people are still keeping their 4pt9. There are still a couple fights in ICC 25 that druids are keeping 4pt9 around for(Valithra/Saurfang mainly). Keep your 4pt9 around, its still good, but if you're able to, you should upgrade to T10. Its good for 25s.

3. Stay at the haste cap as best you can. If you are on a fight where you are doing a lot of Nourish (Deathwhisper lets say) you could get away without the haste cap, but on fights that are actually decently taxing on healers (Festergut/Blood Queen) you're going to want you're haste capped. Less time spent in GCD the more spells you get out.

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Old 02/19/10, 4:02 PM   #146
 Hamlet
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Mal'Ganis
Is that the general consensus? Gemming for 121 haste will give up around that much spellpower. I'm not sure what's in the Resto tree that's as good as that amount of spellpower.

This changes once you start getting over 735 haste without gems.


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Old 02/19/10, 4:12 PM   #147
Salyna
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Sargeras
That's what I was seeing over the course of the discussion on haste, but I could have missed some posts that went the other way. I personally like not giving up LS and ET as they both serve their purpose and are useful assuming you're not doing a 5x1 rotation. Every fight in ICC is not a 5x1 rotation, so they are both useful to me. I also would rather have each of these for 10 mans. If more people are gemming for more spell power instead of gemming for 856 haste and that's the popular thing to do now, then sorry for my mis-informed advice. I'm not changing though.

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Old 02/19/10, 5:36 PM   #148
Dynasu
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Gilneas
Originally Posted by Arawethion View Post
Is that the general consensus? Gemming for 121 haste will give up around that much spellpower. I'm not sure what's in the Resto tree that's as good as that amount of spellpower.

This changes once you start getting over 735 haste without gems.
This is generally what I was thinking. Originally I had been led to believe that haste was generally superior to spell power until the ~860 haste cap at which point you respecced to the 11/0/60 spec or such and began to stack SP, but I'm thinking that for 25s, LS+ET don't bring anything fabulous to the raid.

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Old 02/19/10, 5:50 PM   #149
 Hamlet
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Mal'Ganis
More importantly, you can easily have ET in 18/0/53 anyway, just drop Living Spirit.


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Old 02/19/10, 6:05 PM   #150
slourette
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Night Elf Druid
 
Kel'Thuzad
From what I've gathered, the spec you choose should be determined by whether your focus is 25 man or 10 man. In 25 man, druids rarely use nourish, so there isn't much to gain from picking up ET and LS, so it might just be better to keep the 3% haste and gem straight SP until you cap without gems.

In my opinion, 10 mans are the complete opposite. I've been running 14/0/57 since 3.3 came out, since I was not willing to give up ET and LS in order to get haste capped. I have one missing point in Nature's Bounty, which I have been thinking about filling from NG, but I think I'll wait since I'm still a bit under haste-capped (we only run with the 5% haste buff), and NG is beneficial since it has significant uptime. I could also drop a point in Living Spirit, but that's around 60 spirit, which I think is slightly better than 5% crit.

Also, I feel like I'm the only druid who doesn't use Glyph of Swiftmend regularly. I prefer Glyph of Nourish, RR, and WG in 10 mans. I prefer to reserve Swiftmend for times when the person needs a heal immediately, so I mostly just end up Nourishing.

Originally Posted by Dynasu View Post
How much exactly are the T10 2/4PC bonuses worth?
Should I be focusing at staying at the haste cap more (the 735), or grabbing tier gear and making due with what I've got?
2pt10 is very small. I remember calculating it to be around 0.75% healing increase, or about 35 sp. 4pt10 is quite nice and gets better the closer you are to haste cap, since helps keep you under the cap. Theoretical maximum healing increase is around 14%, which you will only see in 25 mans with aura damage.

You can still get to the haste cap with 4pt10, and in my opinion, this is the best option for both 10 and 25 raids.

Last edited by slourette : 02/19/10 at 6:12 PM.

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