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Old 03/16/10, 12:59 PM   #256
Fallenangel
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Chromaggus (EU)
Originally Posted by Amoremio View Post
Are you for real? There should be plenty of raid damage going around for you to make use of the 5 gcd's left.
Take fights like BQl, sindragosa, PP even festergut sometimes. All heroic ofc.
Regrowth the ranged who do not benefit from JOL, lifeloom the tanks, SW, nourish if you must. The point is that these fillers will outperform the RR glyph and are more than almost necessary to keep the raid at a healthy HP level.

5x1 just doesnt cut it on certain end game encounters. And there is much more to a druid than keeping up this simple rotatation. In the end it comes down to keeping the 5x1 going AND using every extra GCD to add a regrowth to someone or spot heal to buffer the incoming expected damage and prevent spikes.

And wow..skipping targets is stupid concidering how easy it is to keep 5>1 up with or without RR and most 25 setups consist of 2x resto druid. Each taking 3 groups, skipping and overlaping with his/hers hots is terribly inefficient.

not really sure what this means.
Maybe if the spell doing 70% of your healing did 50% more per target 5x1 would be enough.
Skipping tanks is more than viable. If you think your 3s ticking hot is what's keeping them up, think again. Try it, it's fun.
No one mentioned 25m either.

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Old 03/16/10, 1:06 PM   #257
Amoremio
Banned
 
Bolad
Tauren Druid
 
Non-US/EU Server
Originally Posted by Fallenangel View Post
Maybe if the spell doing 70% of your healing did 50% more per target 5x1 would be enough.
Skipping tanks is more than viable. If you think your 3s ticking hot is what's keeping them up, think again.
No one mentioned 25m either.
Yes you are right, lets all skip the tanks so if they dip or something happens like :holy paladin gets tombed in sindragosa we will all have to waste a GCD putting a rejuv up on him to be able to swiftmend missing out on some serious spot heal that could've happend 2 seconds earlier.

The extra heals from RR are more than often overheals and to wrap this up: Innefficient.
You seem to be the type of person who only worries about a 5>1 rotation when that is just half way there. Once you learn to keep the 5>1 rotation AND use fillers each GCD for the 4-5 extra GCD's you're performance will improve.

GL

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Old 03/16/10, 1:12 PM   #258
Fallenangel
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Chromaggus (EU)
So 5x1 isn't enough, then RR is overhealing. Make up your mind here, son.
Sindragosa is pretty borderline for RR. I can see dropping it there.
Maybe you should get a WoW account before commenting on the game. If you have it, feel free to share like an armoy link so we can see your super build/glyphs.

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Old 03/16/10, 1:28 PM   #259
Berserk Eva
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Druid
 
Ner'zhul
Whenever I am raiding I am normally the only resto druid so I am always focused on blanketing the raid with sometimes rolling hots on the tanks if i can. I tend to have 1-2 holy priests doing PoM and a shaman, holy pally and a disc priest, when we are 6 healing, focusing on melee and the tanks. With me trying to blanket the raid while using RR I do have the rejuvs drop being but this does help on fights like BQL because the quick ticking of my rejuv and one of the priest blanketing shields. But my 5x1 with RR doesn't seem to fail unless I have stupid dps who think that they can stand in bad effects and expect me to heal them through it. Mind you my rejuv normally beats the holy pally in overhealing but that is ti be expected if I am blanketing the raid with it. On top of that, I never have extra GCDs that I can use like some are saying. But like I said, I'm a designated raid healer and thats all my raid leader wants me to do and I do it well.

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Old 03/16/10, 1:44 PM   #260
Amoremio
Banned
 
Bolad
Tauren Druid
 
Non-US/EU Server
Originally Posted by Fallenangel View Post
So 5x1 isn't enough, then RR is overhealing. Make up your mind here, son.
Sindragosa is pretty borderline for RR. I can see dropping it there.
Maybe you should get a WoW account before commenting on the game. If you have it, feel free to share like an armoy link so we can see your super build/glyphs.

If you think 5>1 is enough or the best use of you're GCD's as a healer i suggest you reconsider paying for your monthly subscription to wow.

NOT using RR glyph opens to the possibility of keeping the 5>1 rotation up AND using 4-5 GCD worth of spells to either add an extra hot buffer ( regrowth) or help in the tank healing or Spot heal someone who dips without any risk of losing the 5>1 rotation i.e in BQL air phases.

Is that a hard concept to understand?
It is more efficient by quite a margin than sticking to the 5>1 with RR (that has proven to add some more overhealing to RJ )and not doing anything else which is really what you are telling everyone else who reads you're posts.

More than often 5>1 is not enough, it's the root of druid healing but only the basics. The fillers will increase you're performance and improve the raid survivability.

I choose not to display my character name in order not to get people (me) digging through logs ( you're logs) to find out how fail you actualy are when it comes to hot uptiming, efficiency and well legendary mace carrying you. But dont be fooled, I'm talking from experience. 10/12 icc 25 heroic

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Old 03/16/10, 1:53 PM   #261
Aethillan
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Eonar
It could be argued that RR Glyph actually increases the efficiency of the raid's heals as a whole. Depending on the fight, positioning and damage profile, RR allows a greater health deficit to exist on non-rejuv'd targets. The priest and shammy smart heals pick up these targets with a lower likelyhood of overhealing and allow your rejuv's to continue ticking without being sniped. Non-rejuv'd targets are also candidates for t10 procs. Full coverage would negate the set completely. Regrowth on a non-rejuv'd target is still swiftmendable and by the time you may actually need to swiftmend a target perhaps a rejuv did proc on it. It isn't like a target is going to explode if it doesn't have a rejuv on it but I think we all know that.

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Old 03/16/10, 1:57 PM   #262
Fallenangel
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Chromaggus (EU)
Last response.
5x1 is the best use of a druid healing when raid healing. In 25, in a lot of fights, that is all you do (besides the occasional SM). Don't bother with pointing out the flaws in this, as that is a fact.
In 10 things are a bit trickier since we have enough GCDs to do 5x1 and then some. You can choose to do other things like LB tanks. You can glyph RR to make the 5 part 50% stronger. I never said I do 5x1 without glyph in 10m and then idle for a bit. I said I think that often you're better off cutting filters and going for the harder hitting rejuv RR gives.
Most of your statements are either opinions or straight-up false. Using words like "proven" or "always" doesn't make them any more true.

Are you bitter about the mace? Did your fictive guild deny you one? Shoot for the stars, make it 11/12. No reason at stopping as low as you did.

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Old 03/16/10, 2:25 PM   #263
Kaubel
Sledgehammer Emeritus
 
Kaubel's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
I've permabanned one, I've tempbanned another, and I can certainly keep going if the mood strikes me. All of you shut the fuck up.

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Old 03/16/10, 2:26 PM   #264
GTtheBard
Von Kaiser
 
GTtheBard's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Sen'jin
This is getting a little ridiculous. Glyphs, including the Glyph of Rapid Rejuvenation, are meant to be cheap and switched out on a fight per fight basis, depending upon the player's healing style and the raid makeup. If you feel that your 5x1 rotation is best suited for a fight, then by all means use Rapid Rejuv. If you feel that at some point you will need to break the 5x1 rotation and possibly spot heal, then perhaps using a different glyph is more worth it.

There's been a lot of heated discussion over glyphs recently, and I have a feeling that it's simply because we have nothing left to discuss as this expansion winds down. The answer is generally going to remain the same; glyphs are not meant to be static, change them out as you see fit, and find out what makes you most comfortable healing. Unlike gems or talent points, there is not always a clear cut answer for glyphs, especially with ones that are as game changing as Rapid Rejuv.

Edit: Well, the mods got here, this discussion is obviously over anyway.


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Old 03/16/10, 7:14 PM   #265
Psycron
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dentarg (EU)
I would like to know if any of you have experience from Phase 3 of the Lich King encounter when you get transfered into Frostmourne.

I got transfered into Frostmourne as resto tonight for the first time, and truth be told I failed.

Terenas Menethil starts at pretty low HP, and according to everything I have been able to read about the encounter, I will need to heal him to full hit points. Once he reaches high hit points he will start doing additional damage and eventually he should kill the Spirit Warden.

The Spirt Warden does not really do a lot of damage as long as he is not channeling Soul Rip, however Soul Rip really deals an insane amount of damage, and resto druids really seems to have the biggest disadvantage of all the classes in the game when it comes to dealing with this ability.

Priests and Paladins will obviously dispell it, and Shamans have fairly good interupts.

We have Maul, Maim and War Stomp if we are Horde.

War Stomp did not seem to interupt the cast (maybe mine missed?). Maul missed and it does take a while to get a Maim off.

The end result is that Warstomp and Maul are on cool down and Maim is to inefficient because you cannot heal for several seconds while Teneras takes massive damage.

I tried to heal through the damage with lifebloom, regrowth, rejuv and nourish spam, but like I said - I failed.

Are resto druids really suppose to depend on shape shifting and not missing with Maul and Maim?

Or is there an easier way to beat this?

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Old 03/16/10, 8:39 PM   #266
 forostie
Not Aboriginal
 
forostie's Avatar
 
Foro
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account
War Stomp will interrupt the cast. Just look for the buff on Terenas, hit War Stomp, then go back to railing him with Nourish. If you happen to miss with a War Stomp, Bear Form Bash (though I've never needed to do anything but a War Stomp.

I guess I'm just cautious - I wasn't willing to try just spamming Terenas when we were so close to our first kill.

Brutal case of wrong place, wrong time

"fric sleeps with the world and has nothing, zyla gets laid once last year and it nearly kills him" - Birdemani, 2012

"Put a washcloth in her mouth and piss on her face" - Fric, 2013

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Old 03/16/10, 9:03 PM   #267
Kaloryth
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
<AHH>
Ner'zhul
Originally Posted by forostie View Post
War Stomp will interrupt the cast. Just look for the buff on Terenas, hit War Stomp, then go back to railing him with Nourish. If you happen to miss with a War Stomp, Bear Form Bash (though I've never needed to do anything but a War Stomp.

I guess I'm just cautious - I wasn't willing to try just spamming Terenas when we were so close to our first kill.
Could you clarify a bit? When the ghost is casting the spell, he puts a channel on Terenas that shows up as a debuff? I know that once the ghost gets the cast off a debuff gets put on Terenas that can be dispelled, but does the ghost put up a different debuff that you can look for?

Us Nelf Druids have a little harder. We have to hit bear form -> enrage -> bash instead of just war stomp so we need to be a little more ready to interrupt.

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Old 03/16/10, 9:47 PM   #268
 forostie
Not Aboriginal
 
forostie's Avatar
 
Foro
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account
The dispellable one is the channel, it looks like a Mind Flay. As soon as you see it, you can interrupt.

Brutal case of wrong place, wrong time

"fric sleeps with the world and has nothing, zyla gets laid once last year and it nearly kills him" - Birdemani, 2012

"Put a washcloth in her mouth and piss on her face" - Fric, 2013

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Old 03/17/10, 9:38 AM   #269
cyimben
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Sylvanas (EU)
Players always kept themselves in flood over some assumption and never think what are the oppurtunities or relatively effective in the argumentative topic. RR glyph doesnt give you GCD or take GCD its basically do what haste does to dps , it makes your healing cycle effect faster. RR makes your RJ tick faster so it ends up dropping off faster in the meantime you ll still choose what to cast or use as the next spell wheter you have RR or not. Having 18 sec RJ won't give you a time to cast other spells its ridicilious because your RJ will tick 3s intervals so in many fights especially aura fights you will need to cast 1 more healing spell to that target next to RJ and it won't be enough.

RR will make your RJ tick at 2s or so intervals ( and you still can't assume faster hots will be overheal since overhealing assumptions depends on the fight and what's going on at that time , Hots like RJ are born to be overheal but based on logs RJ is the biggest portion of our EHPS ) so RR gives you a cycle that ticks faster which ofc drops off faster. So you should choose your next spell if its nourish , regrowth or RJ and glyph won't change or effect it beacuse assume you r keeping RJ on 10m without RR glyph you ll have around 8 9 secs to use other spells since all 10 ppl have RJ on them you use some spell on some target depending on the fight going and at the same time 10 ppl have your 3s ticking RJ on them with like 3k+.

With RR you ll have 10 ppl with RJ covered at 2s ticking intervals and with 4t10 you ll have at most 2 3 sec free time to use another spell. With RR you should choose if your next spell will be better than a RJ refresh on a dropping off target and you ll use it and at the same time you ll cover your raid with %50 more heal depending on faster ticks.

In conclusion with RR or without it are nothing about free or used GCDs its all about the efficiency of your healing spells and to use the most efficient one , either you use RR and spread your total HPS over whole raid by faster ticks or dont use RR and focus your HPS on more singular targets like nourishing or regrowthing a higher dmg taking char. 3

Either way glyph wont effect anything more than your choice , i m using RR and sometimes deciding some RJ to drop off and use LB RG or Nourish on tank if my pala has some tomb or silence issues , it ll focus my hps on spot heal more and avoid it from spreading raidwide , not using RR will make this choice permanent and i don't want that . I want to choose it through the fight.

In 25m its a little different just as Aethillen said if you use RR there ll be more targets not covered with your hots and will need some healing from other healers so spreading your total HPS wider over raid by not using RR may be sometimes wiser ofcourse by depending on your healing setup and fight mechanics.

Last edited by cyimben : 03/17/10 at 9:48 AM. Reason: Just for addition:

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Old 03/19/10, 4:05 AM   #270
OleFrosty
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Death Knight
 
Nordrassil
By the way, a little druid specific piece of information, that apparently isn't mentioned here, that wiped our raid.

You can't switch forms after you take a portal on Dreamwalker. Haha. (I'm new here, the laughing out loud acronym isn't allowed.. is haha? )

Our druid used dash to get to a portal, with 25-30 stacks on himself on 25 Heroic. Then proceeded to freak out on vent because he couldn't switch forms and heal himself, and He'd already used his healthstone/crazy alchemist's pot. And the other healers were on the far side.

I don't know if this is a bug or intended as you can apparently cast anything else. It happened a second time to him when he tested it on the first portal so it wasn't a one time bug.

I will say a Druid is a handy third healer for this, they can't compete with a Paladin abusing GOHL mechanics on a hunter pet with GS.. but they can use wild growth or rejuv to keep the whole healer group alive in the portal, drop some fricken op 5k a second Wild growths on the raid when its getting crazy, and if they spec into Naturalist they can do some hardcore Healing Touch spam on the GS/Lust phase.

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