Our guild has just started working on H LK 10, and I'm not sure what role I ought to play. I've been a tree for all of our heroic kills so far, but we have a well geared disc priest and holy pally for this fight. I hear the fight is 3-healable now that the buff is up to 20%, but that doesn't sound like a good plan to me.

Does anyone have experience 3 healing H LK 10? Do you recommend it?

Touching a bit on the glyph issue a few posts back, I've noticed a few people are suggesting a worthiness of using glyphed Healing Touch for situations such as 10 man H LK because of the necessity to keep raid comp down to 2 healers, yet ensuring that we have a reactive heal spell with some kick to be able to fill one of these two spots.

My question is has anyone thought of using unglyphed Healing Touch and picking up the 5 points in Naturalist? Assuming a character exactly on the soft haste cap (856 haste for me, with no points in CF but counting on all raid haste buffs), this leads to an approximate cast time of 1.67 seconds for a full power Healing Touch. I have done some rudimentary testing (although statistics and data analysis isn't generally my thing), and found that, accounting for the varying crit chance but neglecting the benefits of Living Seed, Healing Touch will slightly edge out glyphed Nourish in raw HPS assuming a consistent 2 HoTs on the target. I've no numbers to post and don't feel confident enough to do so yet if I did, however my main idea here is (regardless of the math) whether or not these 5 talent points are enough to make this spell useful to us in such situations as Heroic LK 10man, and if so, whether the spell is worth the 5 talent points or not.

My opinion is that a 1.67 second cast time is not much longer than a Regrowth (around 1.3 seconds at soft cap) and is by no means a long cast time for the strength of such a spell. This would then essentially give us a spell to be able to more closely mimic a Holy Paladin in some senses, as the strength of the heal is as close as we have to their Holy Light. In a fight where initially the only healers able to get a kill were a Disc Priest / Holy Pally combo, this might gain us a bit more of an edge.

My usual talent build usually resembles something like this:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

While the talent spec I'm proposing would be along the lines of:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft


You'll notice in the second build, for the necessary 5 points in Naturalist, I've dropped Nature's Bounty (the idea being Healing Touch would be the go-to cast heal instead of Nourish). I've also dropped Subtlety which I'm unsure of. Generally I only run with 2 points there but these days healing aggro is next to nothing and apart from situations where adds spawn, being careful and Shadow Melding both should manage that, I don't think it would cause any problems to drop the talent completely. The other option being to drop Living Seed (now a less powerful talent due to the dropping of Nature's Bounty) and using those points perhaps in Revitalize (a talent I always like to pick up if I can) or Subtlety. Also, concerning the increased mana demand of Healing Touch, the full 5 points in Tranquil Spirit, and the ability to drop glyph of Nourish and opt to go with Innervate (in my opinion there aren't to many other sensible alternatives) should help maintain a low enough rate of mana consumption that no problems should arise. The bonus being, Nourish would still be a viable quick 1sec cast spell we can use, just now we would also have the option of a huge heal bomb we can spam on tanks if needed.

Again, the entire idea being to add an entirely new (generally previously unused spell) to our arsenal at a relatively low cost. Thoughts?

In practical raid situations, the casting time is directly proportional to overheal. With your numbers, an unglyphed HT is almost a full second longer to get off than a glyphed HT. Sure, it heals for a lot more, but there are very few situations where you will do more effective healing this way. Most fights where I use gHT, it has overheal of about 5-10%. I had fights with no overheal at all for gHT.

For LK infest in particular, the thing is that people with a runaway infest are not always possible to predict (sometimes you can -- e.g. cleaving melees will tend to pop bubbles early, but often you can't). This means you can't afford to do hot setup, and in such situations gHT is better than Nourish. The other thing is the extra speed in getting the spell off can sometimes stop additional infest ticks from even happening which is valuable.

I don't think anyone suggested gHT for 10man (unless I missed it). From your post, I understand that you did all the maths while thinking of a resto druid/disc priest setup in a 10man LKhc encounter, in which the druid assumes the tank healer role? In this case, there's little chance that you will have people with a runaway infest, since a priest shielding makes infest... I won't say trivial but let's say fairly kept under control.

I haven't done the maths myself, but I am fairly sure that, as a tank healer, full hots (including a regrowth tick) + glyphed Nourish (which you would drop otherwise) + Nature's Bounty (same) is going to be stronger than a Healing Touch with all the 'tweaks'. You would still have Living Seed as well, and then of course there's Swiftmend and NS+HT for 'omg panic' moments. Agreed that a 'huge heal bomb' might get handy, but as Rijndael said above, I too think that it would mostly overheal if spammed, and there will be a loss overall rather than a gain on the tank, while it will not really be needed on the other raid members either.

I'm wondering if some people here could give me some advice on healing H-LK 10man with a Disc Priest. I see a few posts here have mentioned doing it, and I didn't think it would be that rough, but it was a lot more difficult than I predicted.

First, I run with Nourish, RR, and SM Glyphs. For gear I do a Haste set up, since (correct me if I'm wrong) both 4p and Trauma are fairly weak on LK.

I was on the tanks full-time.

P1 was touchy, until we convinced the Disc to help out on the tank heals. Transition was fine. We never made it past P2 (this is with people who have killed H-LK before, both on 10 and 25man).

Due to luck/fate/whatever the Disc got picked up on every attempt. Invariably, one of two things would happen: either a tank would die while I was patching Infest, or a raid member would die while I had to keep the tank up and couldn't get to Infest in time.

If it matters, we were using 2 Warrior tanks, and had no Shadow Priest for a cooldown when the Disc got picked up. We did have a Ret Pally for AM, though it didn't seem to help.

I don't have a parse, but any tips would be appreciated.

We might try it next week with a Holy Paly and me on the raid, I wanted to try it tonight but the raid leader was skeptical that a Druid could cover Infest. Now that I've seen it's been done, I'll suggest it again.

I've done it with both disc+tree and pala+tree setup and doing it with a disc is definately much more stabile. A reasonably geared tree should be able to keep both tanks alive. Ever since the 20% I find myself not even having to nourish much when tankhealing. Doing it with disc and tree also has the benefit of almost trivializing frostmourne phase compared to disc and pala.

Your problems seems to lie in healers getting picked up in phase two. This will happen more often than not and your raid needs to be prepared for it. Have a raidwide cooldown ready (aura mastery should be enough if it's used before the first tick), and have a hybrid help out with topping infests up. Everyone should also use their personal cooldowns to reduce damage at this point. When the disc gets picked up you should try to prehot as many people as you can (while keeping the tanks alive of course), and then wg -> swiftmend -> nourish spam and hope everyone stays alive.

Your character link takes me to a Death Knight, so I can't comment on your gear. Keeping the tanks up is pretty straightforward. Keep full hots on both tanks, stack LB to three and let it bloom. Swiftmend as soon as you get a chance and Nourish in between. Don't clip hots and try to refresh them when tanks are at hight health. You can ask the priest to try to keep inspiration on both tanks as much as possible.

Before every Valkery landing put as many hots as you can on the raid and tanks (while keeping tanks up).
Helps a lot to see PW:S in your raid frames (who has it and who doesn't).

If you (Tree) is grabbed, the disc should have the needed PW:S on the raid and only needs to tank heal a bit until you are free, he has your hots on the tanks to help him there.
If disc is grabbed, he should have put up at least some of the PW:S on the raid, you should have a lot of pre-hots all over to help you. Tanks will be ok a few seconds usually with the 3LB expiring soon. You can swiftmend, NS+HT, tranquility, use cds on tanks and/or the raid (for example mages can iceblock, pala can bubble, DK AMS etc..) and spam nourish. Also if your dps are decent then freeing that disc doesn't take long, so he can hymm as he comes out if needed.

Disc being grabbed is probably the worst case scenario, but normally doesn't happen more than twice in the fight and only in some of those cases the disc did not have enough time to PW:S everyone following the previous Infest.

diegoa,

At first glance, it looks pretty good. When importing my character from armory, it seems to get primary/secondary backwards (my primary is balance, and that is my current armory). In other words, when I said secondary, it was seeing my balance stuff (Lunar Guidance, not much in Resto). When I said primary, it picked up my resto build.

I'll be taking a closer look.

Thanks Erdluf!

Fixed. I had 2 resto specs when testing so did not noticed the difference.

Diegoa,

I looked through all the individual spell calculations (not the rotations) in the .js, and they all looked right, or matched the spreadsheet.

Two places I think the spreadsheet (and your calculator) are slightly wrong:

-NG Uptime for chaincast Rg should use a '3' in the exponent, instead of a '2' for most Druids (3 is correct if three Rg's benefit from NG. That means latency+2*NG Cast time < 3s).

-Tranquility mana costs assume Ephemeral Snowflake can proc five-times per tick. Since Snowflake was nerfed with a small internal cooldown, that is no longer true.

I disagree slightly with the Rg HoT coefficient. The formula gives an untalented coefficient of .1872 per tick, and I think I have tests giving a lower bound of .1878 (and I use .188 in my calculations). My tests are old though. With 4000+ SP, one number or the other should be easy to verify, but it may be a few days before I'm logged in.

As a matter of coding style, you compute OoCMult and use it in a couple of places, but there are a couple places that just use the unnamed constant 0.06. This would only matter if someone manages to prove the proc rate is closer to 3.5/60 than to 0.06. Even then, it wouldn't matter very much.

Overall, an outstanding job of converting the spreadsheet to a web page.

The changes above look good, I'll put them in at some point. Might not upload a new version in the OP since they're very minor.

In general, we still have to work out how to coordinate changes. I'll have to keep better records of what changes I make, I guess. Normally my tracking is pretty slack since I just do what I want and upload periodically. Will be more of an issue if you work on the Moonkin sheet :P .

I know the Moonkin sheet uses 3.5/60, but I'm not sure how well that was every really confirmed. Will probably leave this at 0.06 for now.

I'll try to check Regrowth when I log in, should be easy.

Here's my current local sheet, so you can make sure everything lines up currently. Then I can start from here with properly noting changes (which I might not be doing much with the Tree sheet for the rest of WLK).