The Restoration Itemization Thread for 3.3 - Page 14

slourette · 02/14/10, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by Drane

Yea, if you're missing WoA or moonkin/ret aura, I would probably recommend breaking 4pc and picking up the offpieces to cap your haste. I personally have both WoA/ret in my 10man group so that isn't a problem.

IMO, even with no haste buffs 4pT10 is better than non-tier haste pieces. The 4 piece gives you free GCD's, which is much better than the 150-200 haste you would get from swaping out crit tier. 4pt10 increase the raw healing (effective + ineffective) of rejuv by around 14%. That's a 7% increase in overall raw healing, assuming rejuv is 50% of healing done. With 3800 sp buffed, it takes around 50 SP to increase your overall raw healing by 1%. This means that 4pt10 is worth around 350 spell power/haste.

If 4pt10 is bad in 10 mans "because there aren't enough targets for rejuv," then haste is also bad for the same reason. It just happens that 4pt10 has more "haste value" than the haste you would gain from dropping the set.

Nyber · 02/14/10, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by slourette

If 4pt10 is bad in 10 mans "because there aren't enough targets for rejuv," then haste is also bad for the same reason. It just happens that 4pt10 has more "haste value" than the haste you would gain from dropping the set.

That's only true (haste being bad) if the only spell you use is Rejuv. Otherwise, its important in order to be able to not only cover but maintain WG, spot heal, etc. when needed. This is also magnified if you choose not to use RR.

swills · 02/15/10, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by slourette

The 4 piece gives you free GCD's, which is much better than the 150-200 haste you would get from swaping out crit tier. 4pt10 increase the raw healing (effective + ineffective) of rejuv by around 14%.

Neither of this statements can be made as blanket statements. The "free GCD's" you get are only free if the RJ you get from the set bonus is a RJ you would have needed to cast. In many 10 man situations it simply isn't. In situations where you aren't blanket RJing the free GCD disappears completely as you likely don't get a RJ you would've cast. In situations where you are blanketing the free RJ most likely gives only a partial GCD as it over-writes an existing RJ you did cast.

In situations where the free RJ is unwanted or over-writing an existing RJ the set bonus us worth far less than a 14% increase in RJ healing. 4pc T10 is a benefit, but its value in 10-mans is clearly lower than it is in 25s. It's just very hard to quantify how much lower.

slourette · 02/15/10, 5:11 AM

Originally Posted by swills

Neither of this statements can be made as blanket statements. The "free GCD's" you get are only free if the RJ you get from the set bonus is a RJ you would have needed to cast. In many 10 man situations it simply isn't. In situations where you aren't blanket RJing the free GCD disappears completely as you likely don't get a RJ you would've cast. In situations where you are blanketing the free RJ most likely gives only a partial GCD as it over-writes an existing RJ you did cast.

In situations where the free RJ is unwanted or over-writing an existing RJ the set bonus us worth far less than a 14% increase in RJ healing. 4pc T10 is a benefit, but its value in 10-mans is clearly lower than it is in 25s. It's just very hard to quantify how much lower.

My point wasn't that 4pt10 was good, it was that the set bonus was better than the haste that would replace it. Excluding Dreamwalker, I'm having a hard time coming up with a healing-intensive fight (a fight where your healer's gear actually matters, overhealing is low, every GCD matters, etc...) where you wouldn't want to blanket rejuvs. Sure, in situations where an extra rejuv is unwanted (like if everyone with a health deficit already has one), the set bonus has a lower performance, but the same could be said for haste.

For the same reason that you would prefer 100 haste to 50 haste, I prefer 4pt10 to non-tier haste pieces.

Originally Posted by Nyber

That's only true (haste being bad) if the only spell you use is Rejuv. Otherwise, its important in order to be able to not only cover but maintain WG, spot heal, etc. when needed. This is also magnified if you choose not to use RR.

I'm going to assume RR as a given for 10 mans. From my experience, it is impossible to roll 10 rejuvs, wg every cd, and spot heal without rejuvs falling off, even while missing haste buffs. In these situations, haste and the set bonus are good, because there is almost always someone missing a rejuv. If there is little need to spot heal, then both haste and the set bonus are poor because there isn't anything productive to do with that last gcd.

Angelofbliss · 02/15/10, 7:27 AM

I can confirm that val'anyr is worth anywhere from 10-19% of my healing.
In all my log files, val'anyr is well over 10% of my healing done.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
The World of Warcraft Armory - Angelofbliss @ Nagrand - Profile

Character: Angelofbliss
Spec: 14/0/57 (2p Revitalize/3p Seed)

I am currently still walking with 4 piece t9 over 4 piece t10. Im waiting for either VoA to drop the legs/gloves
before i am commiting over towards it. In any case, we have a few people with trauma (non-heroic) and i must
say those numbers arent really impressive. 2%/3% tops.

Another question, why Tuskars over Greater Spirit? I can't really name an encounter where under normal circumstances i have issues as a druid to heal while moving or to find myself to stand still and throw that so much needed heal.

Playered · 02/15/10, 7:45 AM

Originally Posted by Angelofbliss

I can confirm that val'anyr is worth anywhere from 10-19% of my healing.
In all my log files, val'anyr is well over 10% of my healing done.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
The World of Warcraft Armory - Angelofbliss @ Nagrand - Profile

From first glance at those reports it seems to be averaging at 10%~ as the sole owner of Val'anyr in the raid and in general the only encounters where it broke out beyond the 8-12% range were Saurfang and Rotface where it was 20%. I wouldn't say it was "well over 10%" of your healing when the majority of the time it was just at that mark.

Shelendil · 02/15/10, 10:50 AM

Both high overhealing and the presence of a disc priest in the raid (when using WoL) can inflate the numbers from the shield. Saurfang and Rotface are both high overhealing.

BQL shows a situation with low overhealing and no disc priest present. Protection of Ancient Kings comes in at 9.8% there.

• Hamlet · 02/15/10, 11:18 AM

Here's Trauma last night at Heroic BQL--probably the best possible situation for Trauma: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Definitely a nice improvement since the buff last week.

Also, on the Val'anyr discussion--looks like Val'anyr is around 10% at worst, and Trauma is 6-7% in ideal situations. The extra spellpower on Trauma is worth around 3%, so in the most favorable situations Trauma might be about as good as Val'anyr. The gap has definitely closed with the Trauma buff, but I still don't see a particular reason not to favor Val'anyr.

MOO · 02/15/10, 12:19 PM

I'm very sorry to point this out, but why on earth would you ever use "Glyph of Rejuvenation"?

• Hamlet · 02/15/10, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by MOO

I'm very sorry to point this out, but why on earth would you ever use "Glyph of Rejuvenation"?

What would you use in your third Glyph slot at a fight like BQL?

teneran · 02/15/10, 1:14 PM

Originally Posted by Angelofbliss

Another question, why Tuskars over Greater Spirit? I can't really name an encounter where under normal circumstances i have issues as a druid to heal while moving or to find myself to stand still and throw that so much needed heal.

Tuskarr's allows you to run out of a "fire", boss AE, etc. faster. It helps you stay alive which most peole think is better than a few points of spirit or anything else that's available. In ICC alone there's numerous fights where you have to move quickly at various times (out of an effect, get away from raid members, being chased by a mob, etc.): Deathwisper, Putricide, Rotface, Festergut, BQL, Sindragosa, Lich King are examples.

Rijndael · 02/15/10, 1:15 PM

Originally Posted by MOO

I'm very sorry to point this out, but why on earth would you ever use "Glyph of Rejuvenation"?

If you bring an encounter-appropriate amount of healers on progression fights, the glyph gives about 2% healing (sometimes more). This is very solid (e.g. matches most other glyphs on healing done, and it's generally healing which is more likely to save someone's life). The glyph does get worse as other healers learn the damage pattern and get gear, and overall raid stability improves.

edit: somewhat related comment: if you happen to be doing healing assignments and are a resto druid, seeing how much the rejuvenation glyph heals for (along with the number of deaths) is a good proxy for 'overall raid staibility in an encounter.' If you have no good alternative, the glyph is actually good as a diagnostic tool (!?).

Kluian · 02/15/10, 2:43 PM

Here's the heroic BQ kill for me yesterday with 4pc t10. Using Swiftmend, Rejuv, and WG glyphs.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

For a fight like this I thought it would be higher, I was a little disappointed that it only averaged 5-6% throughout the night.

Shamans 4 pc typically sees 9-11%.

Keeva · 02/15/10, 7:49 PM

Originally Posted by Rijndael

The glyph does get worse as other healers learn the damage pattern and get gear, and overall raid stability improves.

This is my thinking too.

While still learning some encounters, when things are shaky, there will likely be more times that people drop (and stay, briefly) below 50% hp.

When everyone gets a hang of the fight more, when positioning is better - in this case probably when people don't clump up during the air phase - there will be fewer people dropping low, and the glyph starts to become less useful.

It's a glyph that (once upon a time) I adored on XT, Mimiron, Hodir, Freya. It gets less air time these days, but I never dismiss it, particularly when learning something new.

On BQL I use RR, Wild Growth, and then the third is the ?? glyph. I would probably go with Swiftmend normally, but on a lot of fights I feel as though I'm only doing it to be polite to the other druid/s, so I don't eat their HoTs. I really don't care for the Swiftmend glyph much anymore, but don't like the idea of messing with someone else's Rejuvs. If I didn't "have to" use Swiftmend, I think the Rejuv glyph would get more mileage.

• Hamlet · 02/15/10, 8:22 PM

I use Swiftmend (which doesn't serve all that much purpose) and not RR (because I'm not sure why you'd want RR at BQL in the first place). So Rejuv is kind of a random filler for the third--at least it does something.

While I'm at it: YouTube - Juggernaut vs. Blood-Queen Lana'thel, 25-man Heroic