The Restoration Itemization Thread for 3.3 - Page 24

Rijndael · 04/07/10, 6:02 AM

Originally Posted by Fallenangel

If you are chaining nourishes at the haste cap than NG doesn't help at all, though. Chaining regrowths means that the targets are missing some health already or you'd use rejuv, but then LS is also nice to have.

Sure it helps. It doesn't help throughput, but it helps individual nourishes to land faster, which is helpful if you are trying to save people from dying (which is the situation where you are chaining nourishes on multiple people in the first place). Glyphed healing touch was helpful for the same reason on heroic anub 25, even though it ran into the GCD.

Similarly, you may chain regrowths in advance of any damage if you want multiple hots running on certain people (I do this on Marrowgar before blender phase if we split groups up).

I will say that utilizing Nature's Grace requires a bit of a play style change -- you need to "feel" situations where it helps to chain gun a few direct spells off. Personally, I find good reasons to fire off sequences of direct spells in almost every fight.

Arythorn · 04/07/10, 8:45 AM

Glyphed HT on Anub was handy because of the FIRST sub 1-second cast where time to first heal was of absolute essence -- not about the subsequent 1 second delay casts. In a similar vein, NG helps only on the first Nourish after a crit on chained-Nourishes. At the haste cap, there will be one-second in between each one landing no matter what the cast time is. 1 sec Nourish crits, next Nourish hits .8 secs later. After that, .2 sec GCD dead time + .8 sec Nourish cast = 1 second later next Nourish hits . . . ad inifinitum. It would help for chain Regrowths but I have yet to find a scenario where chain Regrowths are handy.

Two scenarios where NG provides an advantage (however small) when you are at haste cap:

1) tank healing with Rapid Rejuv glyphed (this is not a primary role for most of us). If you are deployed as a tank healer with frequency, I could see Rapid Rejuv + NG/CF spec being of some value. Though, I'd likely drop points out of Revitalize or elsewhere to make sure I got Living Seed into this spec as well. At any rate, this is a plausible though not ideal situation and it ends up being a tank-heal specialized spec with less raid utility. Be better if we weren't tank healing in the first place.

2) chain Regrowths. Marrowgar example aside (I find 18 second RJs meet this damge profile alot better -- harder ticking hot with plenty of length for the storm phase and I can reapply as necessary while moving about in that phase), through 11/12 heroic, I can't think of (m)any good reasons to chain Regrowth.

In my opinion the above two scenarios don't happen nearly enough or even at all for most of us to justify the 7 points spent.

EDIT: If you are itemized past 856 haste (which is what this is about), I suppose you could go 14/0/57 and just grab NG in the tank-specialized spec and still maintain 3/3 Revitalize functionality. If you tank-healed with any frequency (say 10-man), this may be worthwhile. All you'd have to give up in return are two discretionary floater points in Resto tree plus 1 additional point out of Living Spirit. Something like Druid 856+ Haste Tank-Heal Flexible Spec

mhenrique85 · 04/07/10, 1:00 PM

Originally Posted by Rijndael

Sure it helps. It doesn't help throughput, but it helps individual nourishes to land faster, which is helpful if you are trying to save people from dying (which is the situation where you are chaining nourishes on multiple people in the first place). Glyphed healing touch was helpful for the same reason on heroic anub 25, even though it ran into the GCD.

I agree with Calculatéd, there is no reason to keep CF and NG when you hit 856 haste rating.

1- Nourish: Chain Nourishes don´t benefit from a 0.9 cast time Nourish and even when you just cast 1 Nourish to save a person, there is a really, really high probability that you will not have the NG up, since the buff duration is 3 secs. You will just have it up when you are chain casting Nourish or RG. You will always cast just 1 Nourish per second, the benefits to your Nourish lands 0.1 secs before when you are chain casting it are really not worth of it, since your first Nourish, the only cast that would be worth to cast faster to save someone will not have the NG buff.

2- Regrowth: The only fight that I chain regrowth is Morrowgar 10 Heroic, I use it 15 seconds before Bone Storm, I chain RG everyone then I start to cover the raid with chain RJ.

With 856 Haste rating, I think We have 2 options. First is 11/0/60 with Living Seed, ET and Improved Barkskin, for survivability. The Second is 14/0/57 with Living Seed, ET and NG, drooping 1 point from Living Spirit. My personal choice is the first one, survivability is important when you are learning encounters and I already pointed why I don´t like NG.

The difference between this 2 builds are minimum. The real discussion that we should have here is the itemization for 856 Haste Rating. Is It really worth to drop a minimum Spell Power to take a good amount of haste to help you take 856 Haste Rating? I think for most of us, no. But for some of us, yes. If you are a 10 man strict raider, hell yes, it´s worth of it. If you are a 25 man raider but your guild is trying LK 10 man Heroic or is stucked on 10 man encounter that need a heavy tank healing, I think its worth a dual Resto Spec. For the rest of us, in a 25 man raid, it´s really not worth.

EDIT: On 10 man raids, I am assuming that you have both Haste buffs on your Setup. If you don´t have it 18/0/53 is the way to go.

♦ forostie · 04/12/10, 1:16 AM

I've never really found myself with an abundance of haste, and for as long as I've played, I've always considered any free stat that you can get in talents that isn't your primary (e.g. Hit, Haste) should always be taken as it means you can gem/enchant for Spellpower/more of your primary stat. I'm far from wearing best in slot gear, but I find on fights I need extra throughput and is generally a bad shield fight I can comfortably swap to [Trauma] for an extra 200 odd spellpower and [Robes of the Shattered Fellowship] without dipping under 735.

• Hamlet · 04/12/10, 7:30 PM

A bit of random testing today:

1) Last Word: it behaves as expected--the heal is exactly as though the caster had 300 or 340 more spellpower. i.e. interacts with all talents, etc (at least, all the talents I have). Used my armory Resto gear/spec, taking off weapon, cape, idol, and proc ring (2471 spellpower total) no buffs. Rejuv was 2082 without the proc, 2276 with, exactly as expected from TreeCalcs. Did other tests which showed it worked with a heroic Last Word and a Paladin's Divinity talent as well.

2) While doing this, I noticed something curious about the 4T10 proc. The proc Rejuv always inherits the size from the Rejuv it procced from, even if the new target has different buffs. So if a Rejuv procs from me onto a tank with LW up, it ignores the LW proc, and vice versa.

Withoutrival · 04/13/10, 5:19 PM

Wait, let me get this straight. If Rejuv jumps from someone with the LW proc up, the new rejuv will inherit the 300/340 spellpower on its new target? Wouldn't that mean that all (potential) subsequent jumps that particular proc made would be affected as well?

Now if this works, wouldn't it mean that jumps from similarly effected targets (ie; Death Knight with Vampiric Blood up, Druid glyphed into Frenzied Regen, Guardian Spirited targets, etc) would also share their respective modifiers?

• Hamlet · 04/13/10, 5:52 PM

It would be good to test for more things, but that's how it worked for me yesterday when I tested with Last Word and the Paladin talent Divinity.

mishnah · 04/16/10, 12:07 AM

I've read through and I didn't see anything on this. This is of course just a theory question. Assuming two druids in a 25 raid both raid healing, both with 4T10 is Glyph of Swiftmend still very viable? Does it lose some purpose with two druids running full rejuv's across the board no RR glyph? At what rate would another rejuv be placed on the mended target and if it's fast enough is it worth one or both druids dropping the glyph?

♦ Carebare · 04/16/10, 7:27 PM

I still use it because I like to know that if I mend MY rejuv it's still there and I don't have to rely on someone else casting it. Our glyphs overall are pretty lackluster, that's probably the only one I never change out.

Withoutrival · 04/19/10, 1:13 AM

Did some testing with the T10 jumps keeping healing increases from their original target. Took off my weapon, ring, and trinkets: 2307sp in tree with no buffs.

Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

Glyph of Frenzied Regeneration- Normal RJ ticking for 2009. With Frenzied Regen active, it ticked for 2407-2410 as did the proc that resulted.
Seems to work with Glyph of Frenzied Regeneration. And although I do not have a picture of it, the same is true of a Warlock's Demon Armor. Testing included a Demonology warlock with 3/3 Demonic Aegis, had the same spellpower, and RJ ticking for 2415-2418 on both the warlock and the procs. It's probably safe to say that it will work with other static healing increases, (IE: Nurturing Instinct, Spirit Bond etc.) as well as things like Vampiric Blood and Guardian Spirit.

FlynxBB · 04/19/10, 12:04 PM

Guild is clearing H. Marrowgar & H. Rotface every week and I'm looking towards the best available upgrade for my N. Trauma. Currently, Trauma accounts for ~4% of my healing with an average uptime of 17% and overheal as high as 80%, depending on the fight. I'm using Hamlet's spreadsheet with number of 'Trauma targets' set to 3. Evaluating a 5x1 rotation, upgrading to H. Frozen Bonespike the gain is negligible HPS and about 40 mp5, while H. Trauma produces about +500 HPS and mp5 is flat. Obviously, TreeCalcs is under ideal conditions and when factoring in overhealing the 500 HPS gain from H. Trauma becomes much less. I'm edging towards Bonespike based on stats gain and better utility for moonkin offspec.

Questions:
1. H. Trauma is obviously better as the # of targets goes up. Is modeling with 3 a reasonable assumption?
2. Should I leave Bonespike to the Disc Priests and take H.Truama because the procs are more suited to tree healing?
3. Am I splitting hairs on stats or putting too much thought into whom the upgrade is best suited?

Arythorn · 04/19/10, 12:30 PM

Heroic Trauma is hands-down the best upgrade. If you reliably use WG on cooldown and target it on melee, you will have substantial throughput from it. Wide RJ use definitely accounts for procs but those WGs amp it's output considerably. Six targets, ticking every second gives a very good chance to proc AND when it does proc, there's a ton of targets within 10 yds to proc to. Other druid in guild runs H Trauma as well and you can pretty much guarantee on any fight whoever got the most Trauma procs also had the most WG ticks.

OleFrosty · 05/19/10, 6:20 PM

Has anyone got to play with the new Ruby Sanctum trinket? Or know anyone who has? If they keep the "direct heal" part it won't be very useful sadly.. Looks like basically a second Glyph of Holy Light effect for the paladins...

• Hamlet · 05/21/10, 10:16 AM

Here's the trinket:
http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/54573/g...wilight-scale/

It's basically an attempt to extend Trauma fun to non-Druids. That clicky obviously has very little use for us, so I don't see too much interesting about this one. 190 spellpower is quite nice, which means that if this drops and nobody else wants it, it still might be very usable.

The loot table does also have some nicely itemized crit/haste gear, but that's more of interest for Moonkin.

ttyl · 05/21/10, 2:16 PM

I wouldn't take it over a Shaman, but I was thinking 10 or so Regrowths during its use might be good?