Badge leather chest is best piece until ilvl 277 gear (even then it competes because of the high haste value on 264 and lower spirit which isn't needed).
Given the information about the set bonus coming out on the last page, I'd probably upgrade immediately. Besides, if you're in a guild that's given 4 258 set tokens to healers, you're probably going to have access to a couple 264 tokens in time.
I have question about [Val'anyr, Hammer of Ancient Kings]. How good it is compared to [Trauma]? Hammer have 120SP less (210SP + Socket if we take HC but that's already out of my range), theres haste too and some more points in int .
I have got around 1,5% healing done from trauma. How it's look like with hammer for druids? Is hammer still usable weapon compared to non-heroic trauma?
My initial reaction is that I'd definitely use Val'anyr. It's hard to say by how much.
--Trauma has around 200 more spellpower (more or less, depending on how much the haste difference matters). This bumps the value of all your heals by something like 3-4%.
--The Trauma proc is worth ~2% raw healing like we said on the forums.
--Val'anyr's proc is 15% of your healing with 1/3 uptime. So a straight 5% bump, roughly rivaling Trauma.
But, shields are often a lot better than heals. They absorb any damage over 8 seconds, so are much more likely to be effective than an ordinary HoT tick (which overheals unless the target happens to take damage immediately beforehand, typically). We often overheal at around 70%, and on those fights a shield will "overheal" (i.e. get wasted) much less often, although you can't tell that from a log. And a shield increases the effective HP of the target as well.
My initial reaction is that I'd definitely use Val'anyr. It's hard to say by how much.
--Trauma has around 200 more spellpower (more or less, depending on how much the haste difference matters). This bumps the value of all your heals by something like 3-4%.
--The Trauma proc is worth ~2% raw healing like we said on the forums.
--Val'anyr's proc is 15% of your healing with 1/3 uptime. So a straight 5% bump, roughly rivaling Trauma.
I own Val'anyr. Val'anyr's proc is worth a lot more than 5%. The proc is 15% of _total_ healing, not effective healing. Druids using standard hot spam have huge overheal and huge total healing done. 5% of total healing with low probability of overheal (due to the nature of the shield, as you say) will be a lot more than 5% of effective healing. The proc seems to add up to 10-15% of my effective healing (WoL parses on our raids when we didn't have disc priests to shield and confuse the parser confirm these numbers). The other valuable thing about Val'anyr is that it has a chunk of haste, which makes meeting your softcap easier and resulting in less reckless gems slotted (which will probably bump the spellpower difference between Val'anyr and heroic Trauma to be smaller than it seems).
If you own Val'anyr, it's BiS, even including heroic IC 25 loot.
I hit 80 not too long ago and have chained heroics, and finally got myself into a decent raiding guild. We are going through ICC 10man at the moment. I currently use the 4 piece T9, with one 9.25 (shoulders). While the T10 4 piece bonus looks nice, is it worth it to invest the emblems, when I'd rather go for, say, the belt (have badge cloak)? Furthermore, while I first adored the 4T9 bonus, is it worth using since, by nature, we generally don't stack crit, since we shoot for haste to cap? It seems as though its almost worth grabbing higher ilvl pieces over any tier bonus (I raid heal only, so nourish doesn't come into play too often).
Just had a rough comparison of the 4T10 bonus from your logs versus the 4T9 im currently using, for blood princes 4T10 contribed 6% to total healing vs just under 12% from my 4T9.
We didn't do festergut last night, but I've included our blood queen parse which has roughly similar constant aoe dmg, my crit component from reju contributed to just under 16% of total healing if my calculations are correct. Blood Queen Parse I was also specced 3/3 CF during the fight. It would appear for constant aoe aura fights the 4T10 would come out in front but I would like to see a few more parses before switching to it permanently, would probably only do so if it were all 264 pieces.
I'm very skeptical that 4T9 can contribute 16% effective healing. First of all, it doesn't even add that much raw healing unless you have 32% crit, which nobody does these days. And the crit healing is going to be less effective on average, since it does nothing on partial-overheal ticks.
Advantages of 4T10 over 4T9 are easy to summarize:
1) Higher (perhaps slightly) raw throughput.
2) 4T9 contribution is less effective than ordinary healing. 4T10 is at least as effective as ordinary healing, and probably more so (per discussion earlier today).
3) 4T10 contributes to spread, and 4T9 doesn't.
Rijndael: That's the same thing I said about Val'anyr, just in a different order. Raw healing increase is only 5%, but effectiveness ratio of the shields is much higher, so effective healing increase is greater than 5%.
just under 16% of total healing if my calculations are correct. Blood Queen Parse
You didn't subtract the average Rejuv tick from the average Rejuv crit. T9 4set accounted for ~7% of your Rejuv healing on that fight, or ~3.5% of your total healing.
[178(2710.8-2105.2)]/1522474 = 0.0708 = 7.08%
EDIT: I only have Blood Queen 10man to compare: ilvl 245 t9 4set was 3.6% of my total healing and 3x251 1x264 t10 4set was 4.0% of my total (excluding spellpower increase and 2set bonuses).
Moot increase, but I'm wondering how can we make better use of t10 in 10mans? Regrowth everyone and only Rejuv 5 people to leave room for the proc?
EDIT2: Forgot who asked but the 4set's proc didn't show up individually on my Recount. Perhaps a newer version will?
On most fights 4pc t9 will contribute to 3-5% total effective healing (~25% rejuv crit). So far peoples parses on 4pc t10 has shown on average 5-10% increased effective healing.
I don't think people will replace Valynr unless there's some godly weapon from heroic LK 25. On most of my parses I see it contributing 10-15% effective healing. The more you have in the raid the better too.
You didn't subtract the average Rejuv tick from the average Rejuv crit. T9 4set accounted for ~7% of your Rejuv healing on that fight, or ~3.5% of your total healing.
[178(2710.8-2105.2)]/1522474 = 0.0708 = 7.08%
EDIT: I only have Blood Queen 10man to compare: ilvl 245 t9 4set was 3.6% of my total healing and 3x251 1x264 t10 4set was 4.0% of my total (excluding spellpower increase and 2set bonuses).
Moot increase, but I'm wondering how can we make better use of t10 in 10mans? Regrowth everyone and only Rejuv 5 people to leave room for the proc?
EDIT2: Forgot who asked but the 4set's proc didn't show up individually on my Recount. Perhaps a newer version will?
4pc t10 is very weak in 10 man because its already very easy to keep rejuv on all 10 targets. The set bonus is more in line for 25 mans.
I'm curious to know if the final tick of the rejuv will re-apply to the same person if that person happens to be the lowest health.
It can: http://i46.tinypic.com/105dsux.jpg In that screenshot, the proc'd Rejuv heals for 1621 instead of 1622/1623. I'm guessing Blizz gave it a lower base amount so it can't overwrite a "real" Rejuv (like they did with BoW and Mana Spring Totem). And, yeah, I made sure I wasn't wearing any variable spellpower procs/idols/etc.
Also, the Shaman in that screenshot is just under 40 yards away and the proc hasn't jumped to her yet. Will continue testing.
Rest of my log for this week. I did not use 4t10 on H Anub. Some pretty crappy lag that's the first week we've not done insanity in a pretty long time. It's hard for me to compare 4t10 to 4t9 on BQL because we did her differently than most guilds and the change to the biting made the fight a tad longer/less hectic.
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It can: http://i46.tinypic.com/105dsux.jpg In that screenshot, the proc'd Rejuv heals for 1621 instead of 1622/1623. I'm guessing Blizz gave it a lower base amount so it can't overwrite a "real" Rejuv (like they did with BoW and Mana Spring Totem). And, yeah, I made sure I wasn't wearing any variable spellpower procs/idols/etc.
Also, the Shaman in that screenshot is just under 40 yards away and the proc hasn't jumped to her yet. Will continue testing.
EDIT3: Definitely farther than 35yds. Most likely 40 like the tooltip says and I was just unlucky.
Last EDIT: Could not get it to proc off cast. Refreshed Rejuv before 1st tick roughly 400 times (5 mana bars) and saw 0 jumps.
It heals for one point less out of 1600? That's weird (but then, lots of things are weird--why does the Lightweave enchant give 1 Spirit?, etc.). You could be right about overwrite protection, but you can overwrite a Rejuv with a smaller one now. I suppose someone can try to figure out if a proc can overwrite another proc. Just a curiosity though, I can't think of anything I'd really do with that information.
The "Tree of Life" tooltip is probably just some random tooltip issue, but I suppose should confirm that it works when you're not in Tree.
I can't think of any updates to TreeCalcs so far--what people are saying is basically what I'd put in as an educated guess a while ago. So you should be able to keep using that to see how good the set bonus looks.
I would say that in most cases the rapid rejuv glyph is good for 10 man. In aura type of fights you are anyways able to do 1:5 healing on all players. The question in my view is more if the 4 piece T10 bonus is worth it in 10 man as often (like in my group) you don't have both haste buffs and thus need still more haste on your gear to get capped.
While the T10 4 piece bonus looks nice, is it worth it to invest the emblems, when I'd rather go for, say, the belt (have badge cloak)? Furthermore, while I first adored the 4T9 bonus, is it worth using since, by nature, we generally don't stack crit, since we shoot for haste to cap? It seems as though its almost worth grabbing higher ilvl pieces over any tier bonus (I raid heal only, so nourish doesn't come into play too often).
The badge cloak was a waste of emblems. You want haste, not crit. There are way better cloaks and I'd even prefer the ToC25 cloak with haste over the frost badge one.
The (leather) belts itemization is also pretty bad. If anything you should buy the cloth belt, itemization is perfect. Just be aware that basically the same belt as leather version can drop in ICC 25, if you have any chance of clearing that then buying the emblem cloak would be a waste of emblems, again.
The only non-set items you really want to buy with frost emblems are chest (perfect itemization, a lot better than the chest set) and the idol (which is only a minor upgrade over the triumph one so better get it last) but both those purchases should have a lower priority than the set pieces.
This actually presents an interesting question that I think fits well here: Since we now know that we want 4t10, which would the off piece of choice?
Considering only up to ilvl 264 loot I think the off-set emblem chest is clearly BiS and should be used. With heroic loot taken into account it is possible to get ilvl 277 shoulder drop as off piece and the ilvl set 277 chest. Since shoulders generally offer less stats than a chest this will still be quite a noticable loss of haste and only a small spellpower gain over using the 264 emblem off-set chest and the 277 set shoulders, I don't really think it's worth it.
Am I right to assume that 4set with [Thistlefur Jerkin] as off piece would be the ultimate goal?
Originally Posted by Kluian
4pc t10 is very weak in 10 man because its already very easy to keep rejuv on all 10 targets. The set bonus is more in line for 25 mans.
The RR glyph will fix that problem. It's generally pretty good for 10mans and its worth will only increase with 4t10. Yes, with pure 5x1 you could theoretically cover the whole group and thus make the set bonus obsolete but as soon as you have to cast a single different spell (I tend to use Nourish and Swiftmend frequently in my 10mans) the 4t10 proc can fill that gap. With 4t10 I guess the RR glyph will be considered essential in 10mans.
Tbh I'm not really looking forward to all that glyph swapping for 10man / 25man runs.
I don't see why having less haste would devalue 4t10 in any way. Not being haste capped will make your Rejuvs last longer but it will also make you have less of them active (5x1 will take more than 6 seconds) so in the end there really shouldn't be any difference.
The Putricide belt is BoE so even if you are not able to kill him yet the chances are it will be available to purchase in some means over time to the point where you can evaluate the badge cost against the gold cost. However if you are unable to get it via drop due to guild/progression then you will be somewhat limited on badge income too so having the badges free to get 4T10 is probably a better choice.
On 10 man, with Glyph of Rapid Rejuvenation, 4T10 will be a good bonus. You dont just Spam Rejuvenation. On most fights in 10 man, you have to help on spot heals, meanly if your guild use 2 healers for most encounters . This will make always 1 - 3 targets without Rejuvenation that could use the proc.
Even on Fights like Lana'thel, that most guilds use 3 healers, and it is a Rejuvenation spam fight, you have to help on spot heals on players when they got Vampiric Bite with SM and players when they got Pact of the Darkfallen with Regrowth/Nourish and SM. And I always Regrowth and Rejuvenation both tanks and players with Swarming Shadows.
My conclusion is that, if you don´t blind yourself for spike damage that need to be spot healed, with glyph of Rapid Rejuvenation, there will be always at least one person that could use the 4T10 proc on 10 man raids. Sure, on 25 man Enviroment, the bonus is better, but Glyph of RR is already too OP for 10 man enviroment.
As a 10 man Strict raider, I will trade my 4T9 for 4T10 as soon as I get emblems to do it. We don´t have much Crit as we had, with the need to itemize our gear for the new Haste cap. And 4T10 will not just give me % healing, it will save precious GCDs.
Last edited by mhenrique85 : 01/28/10 at 10:00 AM.
Looking at 4+1 offset pieces again, I think I'd been undervaluing [Vestments of Spruce and Fir]. It's 264, but skewed so heavily towards haste that it makes up for much of the gap. It definitely beats 264 shoulders as an offset piece. It lines up pretty closely against the 277 shoulders: 34 haste against 23sp + 38 Spi. It's 24 haste better than the 264 cloth chest.
It's still tough to pay 95 Emblems, but it might be useful for some people's gear progression. Depends on how likely you think you are to get the 277 cloth chest in your guild, and how hard you're trying to save Emblems for Moonkin gear right after your Resto set.
Looking at 4+1 offset pieces again, I think I'd been undervaluing [Vestments of Spruce and Fir]. It's 264, but skewed so heavily towards haste that it makes up for much of the gap. It definitely beats 264 shoulders as an offset piece. It lines up pretty closely against the 277 shoulders: 34 haste against 23sp + 38 Spi. It's 24 haste better than the 264 cloth chest.
It's still tough to pay 95 Emblems, but it might be useful for some people's gear progression. Depends on how likely you think you are to get the 277 cloth chest in your guild, and how hard you're trying to save Emblems for Moonkin gear right after your Resto set.
Spure and fur is itemized very well because it has high haste and low spirit. Its a very nice piece while you wait for your chance to pick up the sanguine robes ilvl 277 (it still has more haste than the robes, but loses out on nearly 40 spirit and 24 SP)
Recently i have obtained [Shoulders of Frost-Tipped Thorns] and i am curious if i should use those and build my tier set around those. Or if the vestements are BiS until 277 shoulders are available? I mean i did the math and crunched a few numbers and using the off-piece shoulders with the rest of t10 still allows me to reach my haste cap even if i have to gem +12sp/10 haste in a few slots..
e1- I dont know why they show up as heroic but obviously i dont have heroic..
01/27/10, 8:03 PM
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