The problem with 4T10 in a 10 man environment is you may be (will likely be?) missing many or all of the raid haste buffs that you'd typically have in a balanced 25 man. Getting 4T10 means dropping two haste peices (minimum) for crit, which for me, will drop my haste far below the softcap with the 10 man makeup I raid with each week. So the trade off is a a free smart rejuv from the proc at the expense of slower heals and a longer GCD on every cast which makes keeping hots up on the raid more difficult. From my perspective, the 4T10 in a 10 man raid does not have the same obvious appeal that it does in a 25 man raid. I think ultimately it's going to greatly depend on the raid haste buffs you have available. Perhaps some logs from 10 mans and direct experience with the 4T10 in that environment will give a more definitive answer.

Maybe I've crunched the numbers incorrectly, but I find myself not agreeing with your analysis Teneran.

There is no haste helm available at the T10 level so we discount that as a place to pick up haste.
Due to the extreme amount of haste on the Vestments of Spruce & Fir, most are looking at using that for their off piece.

That allows you to assemble a list thusly:
[Lasherweave Helmet] - 0 haste
[Lasherweave Pauldrons] - 0 haste
[Vestments of Spruce and Fir] - 108 haste
[Circle of Ossus] - 80 haste
[Wrists of Septic Shock] - 0 haste
[Lasherweave Gauntlets] - 63 haste
[Lasherweave Legplates] - 78 haste
[Blessed Cenarion Boots] - 72 haste
[Ashen Band of Endless Wisdom] - 59 haste
[Signet of Putrefaction] - 52 haste
[Heartsick Mender's Cape] - 52 haste
[Mag'hari Chieftain's Staff] - 150 haste

Just from items we have 714 haste.
Cloak enchant - 23 haste
6x yellow sockets (filled with RAs) - 60 haste

Total: 797 haste before putting any RAs into red sockets which, if done, would put you well over the cap if you have CF.

Even missing a Shaman (5%), you still only need 909 haste to hit the cap with CF + Moonkin/Ret. I find it hard to believe you can't have either a Moonkin or Ret or Shaman in a 10 man raid that wants to attempt heroic encounters. If you're talking about normal mode encounters then being a few % off the cap won't make the slightest bit of difference.

In summary, you can definitely assemble a 10 man set that exceeds the haste cap given that you have taken points in CF with only one raid haste buffer in your group.

Generally the chest will have way bigger stats than a shoulder. That's why having a crit shoulder and a haste chest will get you far more haste than a haste shoulder with a crit chest.
In fact the 3 items with the biggest pool of stat points on them are legs, helm and chest.
The legs are itemized perfectly, there is no viable alternative for the set helm so that leaves the chest as the best off set item.
I don't recommend building your 4set around the shoulders as off piece.

I know that [Vestments of Spruce and Fir] are very expensive and I'd also try to avoid this heavy emblem investment if possible. Luckily there is this nice chest available in 10man: [Bloodsoul Raiment]. The normal version is quite nice already and if the heroic one drops for you it will surely save you the 95 emblems for vestments.
I got the normal version today and I'll be using that one for quite a while I guess, the itemization is almost perfect.

I think it's a little unfair for you to show 4 items on your list that are from ICC 10 man heroic to refute my point. How could you have these items when you start attempting heroic content? The other problem I see is a loss of spellpower from using RA in red slots versus RCR. Can we at least agree that when using 4T10 it's more difficult to assemble the haste you need and may be at the expense of spellpower in a 10 man raid environment? I think people who do 10 mans exclusively will have to decide if those sacrifices are worth the set bonus, which is more tailored to 25 man raids anyway because of the shear number of rejuvs running at any one time. My only point was that the descision to go 4T10 for 10 mans is not clear cut at this time and is highly dependent on the gear you have available and your raid makeup. In contrast, it seems very clear that it's worth it when doing 25 man raids.

My 10 man group has no ret, no moonkin and the shaman never uses a spell haste totem because the raid makeup is non-offensive caster oriented (feral tank, prot paladin, DK, fury warrior, 2 hunters, SP, holy priest, resto shaman, resto druid). Perhaps I'm in a fairly unique situation but even speccing CF, my haste softcap is well out of reach using 4T10 and frankly may not be reachable using all 264 haste peices (but I'll be pretty close). As far as attempting heroic ICC content, I don't think it's fair to suggest you have to have some combination of a ret/moonkin/shaman to reasonably do so. We've certainly been able to beat the other heroic content in the expansion with a non-caster oriented group makeup that lacks raid spell haste buffs.

I think it is pretty much impossible to disagree with your first point. Yes, of course 4t10 will make reaching the haste cap harder since you are forced to use two crit pieces.
But I disagree with your second point. I see absolutely no way around 4t10, no matter if 10 or 25 mans. Being below the caste cap is not the end of the world. Not having it isn't perfect but you will still be able to do amazing heals. Especially in 10 man situations in which you rarely ever stick to a pure 5x1 anyway. Reaching the haste cap is good but it isn't even remotely necessary.
If there was no RR glyph you might even be right about 4t10 in 10 mans since then it would be a fair assumtion that everyone has a Rejuv on him at all times. But if you are using the RR glyph (and you should in 10 mans, it's ridiculously awesome there, it's just pretty much useless in 25 mans) you will most likely not have the raid covered with Rejuvs, making 4t10 just as awesome in 10man as it is in 25man. And a lot better than the 2-3% of haste you are missing out on.

I don´t think take 4T10 will make our life harder to reach the haste cap. You can take [Vestments of Spruce and Fir] and [Circle of Ossus] from Badges. And craft [Blessed Cenarion Boots]. If you don´t do 25 mans, this items are BiS for you. And if you use 4T9, you already use 2 pieces with crit instead of haste.

I agree with you on 2nd part, for 10 man strict raider, life is a little harder for itemization, you have less emblems per week, and you did not had access to some ToGC 25 items with haste (like bracers, chest, belt and boots), So you probably start ICC with +-400 haste. And you did not have access to ToGC 25 trinkets. You need to rush for pieces with Haste, and take the emblem trinket. Probably will be a long way to take 4T10 (for me at least hehe).
And most people are forgetting, with lucky, we have a shortcut for T10, VoA 10 and 25. It will probably drop 2 pieces of T10 (praying for Legs and Gloves =D).

A lot of BiS for 10 man strict Druids are not best itemized, a lot of them have MP5 instead of Spirit. Examples: [Heartsick Mender's Cape], [Choker of Filthy Diamonds], [Signet of Putrefaction].

Teneran, a little advice for your 10 man comp is your DK spec Frost, it does a little less DPS compared to Unholy, but it will buff the melee with +20% Haste Buff, and your Shaman can use Wrath of Air.

Until 3 days ago, 4T10 was an enigma, the proc could be counterproductive if it proced for raid members that already had Rejuvenation for example. And I particularly, never saw [Professor's Bloodied Smock] on AH at my server, and probably when/If I see it, it will cost 20k gold like others ICC BoEs and probably they will be hard to get, because most of guilds that kill Putricide 25man will be going for Heroic in 2 Weeks.

I took both chest and belt, + trinket from Emblems of Frost. That was the only way to be haste capped before ICC Heroic. If I had saved emblems for 4T10, I would miss 1 piece for 4T10 and would start ICC Heroic not haste capped, without the 4T10 and with less 200 SP.

I imagine not, The T8 4 set where you got an instant heal from rejuv showed as 2 spells in WoL but not in recount.

I took a long look at this log, parsing specifically for aura spellid 70691 [Rejuvenation - only Carebare can perform it] and for Melador as source for aura spellid 48441 [Rejuvenation (Rank 15) - Melador casting Rejuv].

What I noticed is that there are many, many cases where Rejuvenation (Rank 15) will drop off a target and almost immediately after 70691 procs on them: "so and so gains Carebare's Rejuvenation". However, there are almost no cases where the reverse is true: Melador throws a Rejuv on somebody and Carebare's proc also puts a Rejuv on the same person. In fact, I could find only one case - during the Putricide kill - where Carebare's 4pc procced on somebody that already had Melador's Rejuvenation:

This is the only case I could see after about 15-20 mins of looking through all the fights (excluding anub). I'm concerned that the 4pc T10 may not proc on, or seems to avoid proccing on players that have a Rejuvenation, even if that Rejuvenation is from a source other than the Druid with 4pc.

If the 4pc will not proc on somebody with your Rejuvenation and has a diminished chance to select players with any existing Rejuvenation then the power of the 4pc is diminished simply by having other Druids in the raid.

Perhaps somebody can prove me wrong on this and find something I overlooked....? Maybe i'm putting too much thought into this and it is simply that players with Melador's Rejuvenation are generally being topped off and less likely to be selected by the proc. I would like to be assured that 4pc *will* proc on players that have somebody else's Rejuvenation in a controlled situation.

It seems likely that the smart heal was just taking effect, it seems logical (and likely) for the fights that we are talking about that a player having neither druids rejuv would most likely be the lowest health. To really prove something we'd need a case where player A with higher health than B, but B having another druids rejuv; With A receiving the jump. I don't see evidence of that, but it's difficult to nail down with the logs it'd probably take an isolated test.

That said, Carebare's logs are from a 25 man raid with 1 other druid. Even if the conclusion is true the only scenarios worse than that are a 10 man with 2 druids and a 25 man with 3 druids. So it doesn't invalidate the current numbers at all unless in those scenarios...which are already less than ideal.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

In the interest of continuing to compile data, here is my parse from last night. I am using the bonus in everything post Deathwhisper.

There are a few things to note:

This is a 10 man parse, but I figured the more data available (and with more diversity), the better the analysis.

As speculated, the bonus does seem somewhat underwhelming in the 10 mans. at least that was my feeling on it. It accounted for between 2% - 7ish% of my healing depending on the encounter, with it frequently being at the lower end of that spectum. While that is certainly nothing to sneeze at, it is not nearly as impressive as the data provided from Carebare`s 25 man parse.

I did make a concerted effort, when I could, to make sure that I did not have my rejuv on everyone in the raid to try to force a jump. I had limited success with this.

I am hoping to see results more in line with Carebare`s in our 25 man on Sunday.

Hopefully it`s helpful!

Before you jump to conclusions you should note that Earen did not use the RR glyph (at least I don't see it in his armory).
It is kind of obvious that 4t10 will not perform great in 10man without it. With the RR glyph on the other hand 4t10 should be just as good in 10man as it is in 25man.

I think it's also worthwhile to note that there were 3 healers for many of the fights, and that the druid had Vala'nyr equipped. On Festergut (best case) the set bonus increased his healing from rejuvenation by 13.8% and suarfang (worst case) by 6%. That's more than comparable to 4t9, and no reason to keep it over 4t10.

Oddly, I would have expected the tier bonus to do better on bloodqueen than it did...Never mind, Earen's post below explains it.

You are partially right and partially wrong.

I swap my glyphs around depending on which encounters I am performing. As I, personally, find RR to be higly situational it is not a glpyh that you will often see on me when you armory me.

That being said I did in fact utilize rapid rejuv for BQL in this parse. Honestly, the performance wasn`t that much better than other encounters where I was not utilizing the glyph. To be fair, though, that is also a fight where I did attempt to keep my entire raid blanketed, and as I can still blanket all 10 people, even with the glyph, that data is probably not the best to see how rapid rejuv would have an effect on the outcome.

On BQL, you'll be perpetually blanketing anyway, probably with RR. It's hard to say how much the proc is worth in that situation; it depends on how easily you can make use of any GCD's freed up by random procs. A lot of 10-man fights are like these--we're not that time-constrained, but there isn't too much terribly important to do once your Rejuvs are up. Princes with two healers might be an example of a busier fight where the procs are nice since you don't have all the time to cast everything you want. Saurfang is of course a terrible place for the 4T10 in any context--maybe I could see using 4T9 there even in 25H, but that's a really extreme example.

In general, I can see good case for dropping 4T10 to reach the haste cap in 10-man situations where you don't have all your buffs, but otherwise I'd use it. In 25-man, of course, everything so far is showing that it's very good.

Regen:
[Solace of the Fallen] - Lord Jaraxxus (25)
[Purified Lunar Dust] - 60 Emblem of Frost

Was curious to what people thought of the change to Purified Lunar Dust getting a 22 SP increase.

I've cleared Jaraxxus so many times and can't get the bracers or Solace to fall, it's getting beyond frustrating and was wondering if I should just pick up the badge trinket to go along with the Gunship trinket.

I know the Solace has a constant uptime and the Purified Lunar Dust has a ICD of 45 seconds..I'm just curious to what you guys think.

Dust vs. normal Solace is slightly more interesting. 25 spellpower vs. 45 MP5. For comparison, trading an Insightful for an Ember meta is 25 spellpower vs. around 70 MP5. If you use an Ember, you should seemingly be using Dust over normal Solace as well. For anyone using regen as more of a factor though, you'll still probably stick with Solace.

Of course, in any case, Dust would be a lower priority than 4T10, Idol, and probably the Emblem chest. And I might wait on trinkets entirely until we find out what the cooldown of Sliver is on live.

e (below): I was just responding because it's a generally applicable question for everyone. Don't ask for handholding on the thread though.

I just recently did some range testing on 4pT10, and found out that the limit of the rejuv's "jump" is 40 yards from the caster, not the target of the rejuv. I first tested casting rejuv on myself with a lifetapping warlock (to force a proc on her) standing first at 5, and then up to 40 yards away, increasing by 5 yards each time after a proc occurred; after she passed 40 yards, over 400 rejuv ticks did not proc the set bonus. After this, I tested with her moving the same distances, but with me casting my rejuv on another target, myself standing 10 yards back. When my warlock had passed 30 yards, the procs began to jump to me, instead of her.

So far very nice posts about the 4T10 setbonus. I want to update the first post with some basic info about it. Is the following correct?

• Range is 40 yards from the caster, not the player who has RJ on them
• Will not proc on someone who already has RJ running
• Can proc off the proc
• Cannot proc on application? (some post says it can, some say it doesn't)
• Will pick the target with lowest hp (that does not have RJ on them)
• Can be Swiftmended and does show on Grid
• RJ will overwrite the proc

Any other info I missed?

Yea, I tested all those things personally and found all to be true, all except trying to get it to proc on application by just refreshing it before it ticked, which never occurred for me. Maybe whoever was testing was casting on two targets, and right as they cast it on their 2nd target, it ticked on the first and procced at the exact same moment of the second cast?

I'm really glad it shows on grid, I'm pretty excited about the bonus overall.

I disagree with this statement. If you don't know what to do with your freed GCD from the set bonus, then what will you do with your extra 4-5% haste from swapping your crit tier to haste pieces? On average, the set bonus will save you one GCD for every 7 rejuvs you cast. Assuming that rejuv is at between 50-80% of our GCD's, the set bonus is equivalent to a 7-11% haste buff, which can yield throughput beyond what is possible with just haste due to the cap. The set bonus is worth significantly more than the haste lost in order to achieve the set bonus, and it's a straight upgrade, not a trade off.

The strongest argument I see for not taking the set bonus is that it will save you one GCD every 7 rejuvs on average, which means you can be unlucky. However, I believe that probability that the output of the set bonus will drop below what one would get by simply stacking haste pieces of gear is very small.

At the time I was testing which target the rejuv would jump to, so I was only casting one and letting it run its course. What I experienced was that the instant I cast the rejuv I had two appliations with identical durations, expiring at the same time. It was quite surprising; one of the other people in my group commented on it as well.

It might be unintended behavior, but this is what I observed on Tuesday.