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Old 01/27/10, 7:03 PM   #76
Kluian
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Korgath
If upgrading from 245 T9, 4 peice lvl 251 T10 is a clear upgrade.

If upgrading from full 258 T9, it seems best route to go is getting 264 legs/gloves, and then 251 helm/shoulders are sufficient to make the switch.

Item Comparison Tool - World of Warcraft

Badge leather chest is best piece until ilvl 277 gear (even then it competes because of the high haste value on 264 and lower spirit which isn't needed).

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Old 01/27/10, 7:10 PM   #77
 Hamlet
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Given the information about the set bonus coming out on the last page, I'd probably upgrade immediately. Besides, if you're in a guild that's given 4 258 set tokens to healers, you're probably going to have access to a couple 264 tokens in time.


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Old 01/27/10, 7:14 PM   #78
Vanhell
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Auchindoun (EU)
I have question about [Val'anyr, Hammer of Ancient Kings]. How good it is compared to [Trauma]? Hammer have 120SP less (210SP + Socket if we take HC but that's already out of my range), theres haste too and some more points in int .
I have got around 1,5% healing done from trauma. How it's look like with hammer for druids? Is hammer still usable weapon compared to non-heroic trauma?

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Old 01/27/10, 7:18 PM   #79
 Hamlet
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Mal'Ganis
Someone asked me this in PM recently. I said:

My initial reaction is that I'd definitely use Val'anyr. It's hard to say by how much.

--Trauma has around 200 more spellpower (more or less, depending on how much the haste difference matters). This bumps the value of all your heals by something like 3-4%.
--The Trauma proc is worth ~2% raw healing like we said on the forums.
--Val'anyr's proc is 15% of your healing with 1/3 uptime. So a straight 5% bump, roughly rivaling Trauma.

But, shields are often a lot better than heals. They absorb any damage over 8 seconds, so are much more likely to be effective than an ordinary HoT tick (which overheals unless the target happens to take damage immediately beforehand, typically). We often overheal at around 70%, and on those fights a shield will "overheal" (i.e. get wasted) much less often, although you can't tell that from a log. And a shield increases the effective HP of the target as well.


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Old 01/27/10, 8:01 PM   #80
jula
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Which weapons (including heroic drops) if any, would you say are upgrades to Val'anyr?

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Old 01/27/10, 8:05 PM   #81
 Hamlet
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Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by jula View Post
Which weapons (including heroic drops) if any, would you say are upgrades to Val'anyr?
None.


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Old 01/27/10, 8:34 PM   #82
Rijndael
Don Flamenco
 
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Dwarf Priest
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by Arawethion View Post
Someone asked me this in PM recently. I said:

My initial reaction is that I'd definitely use Val'anyr. It's hard to say by how much.

--Trauma has around 200 more spellpower (more or less, depending on how much the haste difference matters). This bumps the value of all your heals by something like 3-4%.
--The Trauma proc is worth ~2% raw healing like we said on the forums.
--Val'anyr's proc is 15% of your healing with 1/3 uptime. So a straight 5% bump, roughly rivaling Trauma.
I own Val'anyr. Val'anyr's proc is worth a lot more than 5%. The proc is 15% of _total_ healing, not effective healing. Druids using standard hot spam have huge overheal and huge total healing done. 5% of total healing with low probability of overheal (due to the nature of the shield, as you say) will be a lot more than 5% of effective healing. The proc seems to add up to 10-15% of my effective healing (WoL parses on our raids when we didn't have disc priests to shield and confuse the parser confirm these numbers). The other valuable thing about Val'anyr is that it has a chunk of haste, which makes meeting your softcap easier and resulting in less reckless gems slotted (which will probably bump the spellpower difference between Val'anyr and heroic Trauma to be smaller than it seems).

If you own Val'anyr, it's BiS, even including heroic IC 25 loot.

Last edited by Rijndael : 01/27/10 at 8:40 PM.

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Old 01/27/10, 8:52 PM   #83
Nym the Resto
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Quel'dorei
4T9

I hit 80 not too long ago and have chained heroics, and finally got myself into a decent raiding guild. We are going through ICC 10man at the moment. I currently use the 4 piece T9, with one 9.25 (shoulders). While the T10 4 piece bonus looks nice, is it worth it to invest the emblems, when I'd rather go for, say, the belt (have badge cloak)? Furthermore, while I first adored the 4T9 bonus, is it worth using since, by nature, we generally don't stack crit, since we shoot for haste to cap? It seems as though its almost worth grabbing higher ilvl pieces over any tier bonus (I raid heal only, so nourish doesn't come into play too often).

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Old 01/27/10, 9:33 PM   #84
pragmata
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Frostmourne
Originally Posted by Carebare View Post
4t10 starts from Gunship Battle, if folks are interested. Also incidental Trauma results in there.
Just had a rough comparison of the 4T10 bonus from your logs versus the 4T9 im currently using, for blood princes 4T10 contribed 6% to total healing vs just under 12% from my 4T9.

We didn't do festergut last night, but I've included our blood queen parse which has roughly similar constant aoe dmg, my crit component from reju contributed to just under 16% of total healing if my calculations are correct. Blood Queen Parse I was also specced 3/3 CF during the fight. It would appear for constant aoe aura fights the 4T10 would come out in front but I would like to see a few more parses before switching to it permanently, would probably only do so if it were all 264 pieces.

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Old 01/27/10, 10:10 PM   #85
 Hamlet
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Mal'Ganis
I'm very skeptical that 4T9 can contribute 16% effective healing. First of all, it doesn't even add that much raw healing unless you have 32% crit, which nobody does these days. And the crit healing is going to be less effective on average, since it does nothing on partial-overheal ticks.

Advantages of 4T10 over 4T9 are easy to summarize:
1) Higher (perhaps slightly) raw throughput.
2) 4T9 contribution is less effective than ordinary healing. 4T10 is at least as effective as ordinary healing, and probably more so (per discussion earlier today).
3) 4T10 contributes to spread, and 4T9 doesn't.


Rijndael: That's the same thing I said about Val'anyr, just in a different order. Raw healing increase is only 5%, but effectiveness ratio of the shields is much higher, so effective healing increase is greater than 5%.


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Old 01/27/10, 10:20 PM   #86
ttyl
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Destromath
Originally Posted by pragmata View Post
just under 16% of total healing if my calculations are correct. Blood Queen Parse
You didn't subtract the average Rejuv tick from the average Rejuv crit. T9 4set accounted for ~7% of your Rejuv healing on that fight, or ~3.5% of your total healing.

[178(2710.8-2105.2)]/1522474 = 0.0708 = 7.08%

EDIT: I only have Blood Queen 10man to compare: ilvl 245 t9 4set was 3.6% of my total healing and 3x251 1x264 t10 4set was 4.0% of my total (excluding spellpower increase and 2set bonuses).

Moot increase, but I'm wondering how can we make better use of t10 in 10mans? Regrowth everyone and only Rejuv 5 people to leave room for the proc?

EDIT2: Forgot who asked but the 4set's proc didn't show up individually on my Recount. Perhaps a newer version will?

Last edited by ttyl : 01/27/10 at 10:48 PM.

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Old 01/27/10, 11:06 PM   #87
Kluian
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Korgath
On most fights 4pc t9 will contribute to 3-5% total effective healing (~25% rejuv crit). So far peoples parses on 4pc t10 has shown on average 5-10% increased effective healing.

I don't think people will replace Valynr unless there's some godly weapon from heroic LK 25. On most of my parses I see it contributing 10-15% effective healing. The more you have in the raid the better too.

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Old 01/27/10, 11:08 PM   #88
Kluian
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by ttyl View Post
You didn't subtract the average Rejuv tick from the average Rejuv crit. T9 4set accounted for ~7% of your Rejuv healing on that fight, or ~3.5% of your total healing.

[178(2710.8-2105.2)]/1522474 = 0.0708 = 7.08%

EDIT: I only have Blood Queen 10man to compare: ilvl 245 t9 4set was 3.6% of my total healing and 3x251 1x264 t10 4set was 4.0% of my total (excluding spellpower increase and 2set bonuses).

Moot increase, but I'm wondering how can we make better use of t10 in 10mans? Regrowth everyone and only Rejuv 5 people to leave room for the proc?

EDIT2: Forgot who asked but the 4set's proc didn't show up individually on my Recount. Perhaps a newer version will?
4pc t10 is very weak in 10 man because its already very easy to keep rejuv on all 10 targets. The set bonus is more in line for 25 mans.

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Old 01/27/10, 11:54 PM   #89
ttyl
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Destromath
Originally Posted by Xasthur View Post
I'm curious to know if the final tick of the rejuv will re-apply to the same person if that person happens to be the lowest health.
It can: http://i46.tinypic.com/105dsux.jpg In that screenshot, the proc'd Rejuv heals for 1621 instead of 1622/1623. I'm guessing Blizz gave it a lower base amount so it can't overwrite a "real" Rejuv (like they did with BoW and Mana Spring Totem). And, yeah, I made sure I wasn't wearing any variable spellpower procs/idols/etc.

Also, the Shaman in that screenshot is just under 40 yards away and the proc hasn't jumped to her yet. Will continue testing.

EDIT: Turned on a range addon and moved up to 30 yards and it proc'd right away: http://i50.tinypic.com/16780g1.jpg Unrelated to range, but compare the tooltip in that screenshot to this one: http://i45.tinypic.com/2nb6dfr.jpg Requires Tree of Life Form?

EDIT2: Can proc from a proc's ticks: http://i47.tinypic.com/30x8zg7.png

EDIT3: Definitely farther than 35yds. Most likely 40 like the tooltip says and I was just unlucky.

Last EDIT: Could not get it to proc off cast. Refreshed Rejuv before 1st tick roughly 400 times (5 mana bars) and saw 0 jumps.

Last edited by ttyl : 01/28/10 at 1:27 AM.

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Old 01/28/10, 12:21 AM   #90
♦ Carebare
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Mal'Ganis
Rest of my log for this week. I did not use 4t10 on H Anub. Some pretty crappy lag that's the first week we've not done insanity in a pretty long time. It's hard for me to compare 4t10 to 4t9 on BQL because we did her differently than most guilds and the change to the biting made the fight a tad longer/less hectic.

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