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01/28/10, 9:40 PM
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#106
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by teneran
Can we at least agree that when using 4T10 it's more difficult to assemble the haste you need and may be at the expense of spellpower in a 10 man raid environment? I think people who do 10 mans exclusively will have to decide if those sacrifices are worth the set bonus, which is more tailored to 25 man raids anyway because of the shear number of rejuvs running at any one time. My only point was that the descision to go 4T10 for 10 mans is not clear cut at this time and is highly dependent on the gear you have available and your raid makeup..
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I don´t think take 4T10 will make our life harder to reach the haste cap. You can take [Vestments of Spruce and Fir] and [Circle of Ossus] from Badges. And craft [Blessed Cenarion Boots]. If you don´t do 25 mans, this items are BiS for you. And if you use 4T9, you already use 2 pieces with crit instead of haste.
I agree with you on 2nd part, for 10 man strict raider, life is a little harder for itemization, you have less emblems per week, and you did not had access to some ToGC 25 items with haste (like bracers, chest, belt and boots), So you probably start ICC with +-400 haste. And you did not have access to ToGC 25 trinkets. You need to rush for pieces with Haste, and take the emblem trinket. Probably will be a long way to take 4T10 (for me at least hehe).
And most people are forgetting, with lucky, we have a shortcut for T10, VoA 10 and 25. It will probably drop 2 pieces of T10 (praying for Legs and Gloves =D).
A lot of BiS for 10 man strict Druids are not best itemized, a lot of them have MP5 instead of Spirit. Examples: [Heartsick Mender's Cape], [Choker of Filthy Diamonds], [Signet of Putrefaction].
Teneran, a little advice for your 10 man comp is your DK spec Frost, it does a little less DPS compared to Unholy, but it will buff the melee with +20% Haste Buff, and your Shaman can use Wrath of Air.
Last edited by mhenrique85 : 01/28/10 at 10:12 PM.
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01/28/10, 10:12 PM
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#107
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Piston Honda
Blood Elf Paladin
Mal'Ganis
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[Professor's Bloodied Smock] is BoE. With a little investment and a little time you'll start seeing these regularly show up on the AH. I don't know why you'd invest in badge items to be honest for this spot over the chest piece. I sacrificed getting the 4pct10 bonus early to get the Vestments because it was the single biggest badge upgrade I could get. I never had t9 so it was an easy decision. In retrospect, the 4pc t10 bonus looks amazing and this was perhaps a small mistake. However, badge flow will be dramatically increasing yet again next tuesday so its not one i'm likely to pay for, for very long.
(link shows heroic for the smock.... I was refering too regular)
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01/28/10, 10:53 PM
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#108
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Feya
[Professor's Bloodied Smock] is BoE. With a little investment and a little time you'll start seeing these regularly show up on the AH. I don't know why you'd invest in badge items to be honest for this spot over the chest piece. I sacrificed getting the 4pct10 bonus early to get the Vestments because it was the single biggest badge upgrade I could get. I never had t9 so it was an easy decision. In retrospect, the 4pc t10 bonus looks amazing and this was perhaps a small mistake. However, badge flow will be dramatically increasing yet again next tuesday so its not one i'm likely to pay for, for very long.
(link shows heroic for the smock.... I was refering too regular)
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Until 3 days ago, 4T10 was an enigma, the proc could be counterproductive if it proced for raid members that already had Rejuvenation for example. And I particularly, never saw [Professor's Bloodied Smock] on AH at my server, and probably when/If I see it, it will cost 20k gold like others ICC BoEs and probably they will be hard to get, because most of guilds that kill Putricide 25man will be going for Heroic in 2 Weeks.
I took both chest and belt, + trinket from Emblems of Frost. That was the only way to be haste capped before ICC Heroic. If I had saved emblems for 4T10, I would miss 1 piece for 4T10 and would start ICC Heroic not haste capped, without the 4T10 and with less 200 SP.
Last edited by mhenrique85 : 01/29/10 at 6:31 AM.
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01/29/10, 3:34 AM
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#109
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Ghostlands (EU)
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Originally Posted by Kluian
Does the "Rejuvenation" show up in recount as a separate spell, or just WoL parses?
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I imagine not, The T8 4 set where you got an instant heal from rejuv showed as 2 spells in WoL but not in recount.
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01/29/10, 9:49 AM
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#110
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Don Flamenco
Night Elf Warrior
Stormrage
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Originally Posted by Carebare
Rest of my log for this week. I did not use 4t10 on H Anub. Some pretty crappy lag that's the first week we've not done insanity in a pretty long time. It's hard for me to compare 4t10 to 4t9 on BQL because we did her differently than most guilds and the change to the biting made the fight a tad longer/less hectic.
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I took a long look at this log, parsing specifically for aura spellid 70691 [Rejuvenation - only Carebare can perform it] and for Melador as source for aura spellid 48441 [Rejuvenation (Rank 15) - Melador casting Rejuv].
What I noticed is that there are many, many cases where Rejuvenation (Rank 15) will drop off a target and almost immediately after 70691 procs on them: "so and so gains Carebare's Rejuvenation". However, there are almost no cases where the reverse is true: Melador throws a Rejuv on somebody and Carebare's proc also puts a Rejuv on the same person. In fact, I could find only one case - during the Putricide kill - where Carebare's 4pc procced on somebody that already had Melador's Rejuvenation:
[22:36:52.161] Scorned's Rejuvenation fades
[22:37:11.450] Melador casts Rejuvenation on Scorned <-- cast
[22:37:11.491] Scorned gains Rejuvenation from Melador
[22:37:11.859] Scorned gains Rejuvenation from Carebare <-- proc
[22:37:14.512] Melador Rejuvenation Scorned +0 (O: 3091)
[22:37:14.894] Carebare Rejuvenation Scorned +852 (O: 2489)
[22:37:17.568] Melador Rejuvenation Scorned +1172 (O: 1920)
[22:37:17.872] Carebare Rejuvenation Scorned +0 (O: 3341)
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This is the only case I could see after about 15-20 mins of looking through all the fights (excluding anub). I'm concerned that the 4pc T10 may not proc on, or seems to avoid proccing on players that have a Rejuvenation, even if that Rejuvenation is from a source other than the Druid with 4pc.
If the 4pc will not proc on somebody with your Rejuvenation and has a diminished chance to select players with any existing Rejuvenation then the power of the 4pc is diminished simply by having other Druids in the raid.
Perhaps somebody can prove me wrong on this and find something I overlooked....? Maybe i'm putting too much thought into this and it is simply that players with Melador's Rejuvenation are generally being topped off and less likely to be selected by the proc. I would like to be assured that 4pc *will* proc on players that have somebody else's Rejuvenation in a controlled situation.
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01/29/10, 10:00 AM
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#111
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Von Kaiser
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It seems likely that the smart heal was just taking effect, it seems logical (and likely) for the fights that we are talking about that a player having neither druids rejuv would most likely be the lowest health. To really prove something we'd need a case where player A with higher health than B, but B having another druids rejuv; With A receiving the jump. I don't see evidence of that, but it's difficult to nail down with the logs it'd probably take an isolated test.
That said, Carebare's logs are from a 25 man raid with 1 other druid. Even if the conclusion is true the only scenarios worse than that are a 10 man with 2 druids and a 25 man with 3 druids. So it doesn't invalidate the current numbers at all unless in those scenarios...which are already less than ideal.
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01/29/10, 11:33 AM
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#112
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Likes Peachbellinis!
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World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
In the interest of continuing to compile data, here is my parse from last night. I am using the bonus in everything post Deathwhisper.
There are a few things to note:
This is a 10 man parse, but I figured the more data available (and with more diversity), the better the analysis.
As speculated, the bonus does seem somewhat underwhelming in the 10 mans. at least that was my feeling on it. It accounted for between 2% - 7ish% of my healing depending on the encounter, with it frequently being at the lower end of that spectum. While that is certainly nothing to sneeze at, it is not nearly as impressive as the data provided from Carebare`s 25 man parse.
I did make a concerted effort, when I could, to make sure that I did not have my rejuv on everyone in the raid to try to force a jump. I had limited success with this.
I am hoping to see results more in line with Carebare`s in our 25 man on Sunday.
Hopefully it`s helpful!
Last edited by Earen : 01/29/10 at 11:40 AM.
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01/29/10, 12:46 PM
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#113
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Earen
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Thanks for posting this. Just as I suspected, rather underwhelming. Based on all boss kills it was 4% of your effective healing and was 7% more overheal than your manual rejuvs. I'll stick with my T9.
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01/29/10, 12:54 PM
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#114
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Druid
Turalyon (EU)
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Before you jump to conclusions you should note that Earen did not use the RR glyph (at least I don't see it in his armory).
It is kind of obvious that 4t10 will not perform great in 10man without it. With the RR glyph on the other hand 4t10 should be just as good in 10man as it is in 25man.
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01/29/10, 1:26 PM
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#115
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by MegaVolt
Before you jump to conclusions you should note that Earen did not use the RR glyph (at least I don't see it in his armory).
It is kind of obvious that 4t10 will not perform great in 10man without it. With the RR glyph on the other hand 4t10 should be just as good in 10man as it is in 25man.
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I think it's also worthwhile to note that there were 3 healers for many of the fights, and that the druid had Vala'nyr equipped. On Festergut (best case) the set bonus increased his healing from rejuvenation by 13.8% and suarfang (worst case) by 6%. That's more than comparable to 4t9, and no reason to keep it over 4t10.
Oddly, I would have expected the tier bonus to do better on bloodqueen than it did...Never mind, Earen's post below explains it.
Last edited by Ogbar : 01/29/10 at 1:33 PM.
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01/29/10, 1:29 PM
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#116
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Likes Peachbellinis!
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Originally Posted by MegaVolt
Before you jump to conclusions you should note that Earen did not use the RR glyph (at least I don't see it in his armory).
It is kind of obvious that 4t10 will not perform great in 10man without it. With the RR glyph on the other hand 4t10 should be just as good in 10man as it is in 25man.
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You are partially right and partially wrong.
I swap my glyphs around depending on which encounters I am performing. As I, personally, find RR to be higly situational it is not a glpyh that you will often see on me when you armory me.
That being said I did in fact utilize rapid rejuv for BQL in this parse. Honestly, the performance wasn`t that much better than other encounters where I was not utilizing the glyph. To be fair, though, that is also a fight where I did attempt to keep my entire raid blanketed, and as I can still blanket all 10 people, even with the glyph, that data is probably not the best to see how rapid rejuv would have an effect on the outcome.
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01/29/10, 1:34 PM
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#117
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<Druid Trainer>
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On BQL, you'll be perpetually blanketing anyway, probably with RR. It's hard to say how much the proc is worth in that situation; it depends on how easily you can make use of any GCD's freed up by random procs. A lot of 10-man fights are like these--we're not that time-constrained, but there isn't too much terribly important to do once your Rejuvs are up. Princes with two healers might be an example of a busier fight where the procs are nice since you don't have all the time to cast everything you want. Saurfang is of course a terrible place for the 4T10 in any context--maybe I could see using 4T9 there even in 25H, but that's a really extreme example.
In general, I can see good case for dropping 4T10 to reach the haste cap in 10-man situations where you don't have all your buffs, but otherwise I'd use it. In 25-man, of course, everything so far is showing that it's very good.
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01/29/10, 3:18 PM
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#118
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Banned
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Regen:
[Solace of the Fallen] - Lord Jaraxxus (25)
[Purified Lunar Dust] - 60 Emblem of Frost
Was curious to what people thought of the change to Purified Lunar Dust getting a 22 SP increase.
I've cleared Jaraxxus so many times and can't get the bracers or Solace to fall, it's getting beyond frustrating and was wondering if I should just pick up the badge trinket to go along with the Gunship trinket.
I know the Solace has a constant uptime and the Purified Lunar Dust has a ICD of 45 seconds..I'm just curious to what you guys think.
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01/29/10, 3:21 PM
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#119
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<Druid Trainer>
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Solace will still be far better. It's still 7 spellpower vs 61 MP5.
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01/29/10, 3:27 PM
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#120
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<Druid Trainer>
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Dust vs. normal Solace is slightly more interesting. 25 spellpower vs. 45 MP5. For comparison, trading an Insightful for an Ember meta is 25 spellpower vs. around 70 MP5. If you use an Ember, you should seemingly be using Dust over normal Solace as well. For anyone using regen as more of a factor though, you'll still probably stick with Solace.
Of course, in any case, Dust would be a lower priority than 4T10, Idol, and probably the Emblem chest. And I might wait on trinkets entirely until we find out what the cooldown of Sliver is on live.
e (below): I was just responding because it's a generally applicable question for everyone. Don't ask for handholding on the thread though.
Last edited by Hamlet : 01/29/10 at 3:50 PM.
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