For a feral, get 2T9 for DPS and higher ilvl gear for the rest. For tanking, I'd recommend the highest ilvl gear available, as it's the only way to gain armor and generally the best for stam, which will be more important than cooldown tricks from set bonuses.

I have the same question in regards to the 4pT9 resto set. Is the 4p set bonus better than using the 2t9 ilvl232 and the 2 ilvl 245 pieces from the badge vendor?

@Tiffara - That is a valid point, - though not something I would do myself - since the cases where I go out of cat form(to do something other than use Innervate or Rebirth or finisher fastened heal) are rather rare. But it's a difference in playstyle, so I can see the value in that for some people.

I guess it would be a better idea to just suggest Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft and mention that for the last talent point, Furor(to lose less dps if you spend alot of time out of form), Nurturing Instinct(to make it easier on your healers) or Feral Agression(For a bit more damage from FB) are all valid choices.

Did I miss something with bear specs? I thought 2/2 master shapeshifter was still best for threat over imp mangle even with 2 points in kotj. Even with 4pceT10 I would have thought it a tps loss.

Number of points wasn't the question, 2 or 5 is irrelevent, my question was regarding net gain. Does 2 points in kotj and 3 in imp mangle now give more threat than 3 in Natural Shapeshifter and 2 in Master Shapeshifter?

The difference in tps between 2/2 Master Shapeshifter and 3/3 Improved Mangle is minimal. In both my current gear and my hopeful best gear 2/2 MS is about a 1.5% increase in tps over 3/3 IM, according to Rawr (about 150 out of 9.5k). If you used Enrage on cooldown (which you might not want to, for a variety of reasons), 2 points in KotJ would get you 80+ tps (a bit harder to estimate, as it doesn't boost bonus threat).

With or without KotJ, I feel it's a small enough increase that you can go either way and not feel like you're making a bad call. I prefer improved mangle over master shapeshifter as it makes it more likely I'll be able to grab new/lose adds with a mangle to stabilize threat on them, plus I've been sticking with the older idol that's mangle based, so it helps me keep the buff up. IM plus 2/3 KotJ also help me feel not quite as useless when I go kitty in the middle of a fight.

Of course, this may just be a personal holdover from when there was only one feral spec, as I ran that way for quite a while in TBC.

Regarding feral DPS spec/rotation:

With the changes to mangle duration having landed in 3.3, I was wondering; how much of a DPS loss is it for a manglebot to drop Improved Mangle? With it only reducing the energy cost of mangle by 6, and only having to mangle 1/min, are the points less or more valuable over a 5 minute time than Feral Aggression? I suspect that Improved Mangle may now be almost exclusively a tanking talent with the duration change, but I am uncertain how to check.

The possible exception being fights where you cannot always Shred. Examples include Lady Deathwhisper where adds are often facing you and Sindragosa where you may not be able to get behind an ice block you are working on. A different way to ask the question is what do you plan to use those points for and why? For example I was thinking that having Infected Wounds in a cat spec might be useful for LK phase 2 depending on raid comp.

Master Shapeshifter is better than imp mangle and kotj for overall threat even with 4T10 (using enrage without the bonus against bosses is just stupid). The reason you'd possibly take kotj with the bonus is for some burst threat in the beginning of the fight.

What is the base damage of Dire Bear Form melee swings? As in: swing damage = AP/14 * swingspeed + base damage?

I'm at the point where gear choices become complicated. We're 11/12 heroic ICC, which means I have access to everything except Heroic Lich King Weapons. Unfortunately, without 281 Oathbinder, that leaves a lot of confusion on my part. I've narrowed down my choices to the following:

1. Use 277 Distant Land. While it's the 2nd best weapon in terms of standalone weapon DPS, it makes simutaneously capping ArP while keeping a decent amount of hit/expertise impossible. For this option, I'd cap ArP. However, this leaves my hit rating and expertise at painfully low levels. 91 Hit, and 92 Expertise.

2. Use 277 Distant Land. However, forsake the hard ArP cap and throw in a few hit gems to get to a respectable level. Drop down to about 1150-1200 ArP and try to get to around 180-200 Hit, and ~100 Expertise.

3. Use 271 Oathbinder. Due to the natural ArP on it, I am able to cap ArP sooner, thus freeing up more slots to fill up with hit gems. However, I lose the benefit of a higher quality weapon.


I've run this through in Rawr several times, and it insists that Option 1 is the best. It seems to place very, very little value on Hit/Expertise as stats. However, I have severe doubts. While hit/expertise is partially up to personal preference, having my Rake miss/be dodged for about 6 seconds while I watch helplessly as SR and Rip simultaneously fall off ties for first in the list of things that can induce me into a psychotic rage, right next to listening to Justin Bieber.

I'm just looking for some extra input on this subject pretty much. I'm leaning primarily towards option 2, but I'm unsure of the exact difference between say, 1200 ArP and 1400.