On the forums I read the trauma overwrites mangle, do i need to refresh mangle when trauma is applied or do I just track that it is on the boss as well? Is there anything else that overwrites mangle. It keeps dropping off the boss the second or two after I apply it. thanks in advance for the help.

No dont need to mangle with an arms warrior or bear tank in your raid. Just track their buffs and enjoy.

I have a question, one that might be good for the feral/bear FAQ--I've seen it asked before, but...well, let me get on with it.

Why does Rawr tell me to gem for Agility as a bear tank? Everything I read from human beings says to gem Stamina, using Agi/Stam reds to pick up good socket bonuses.

I've seen this asked before, and the most common response is to make sure you've got the Chill of the Throne debuff checked. I've got it checked, and I've got all the appropriate buffs/debuffs checked (including the ICC 15%). The only way I can get it to gem for Stamina is to raise the Target Damage to something ridiculous, like 900,000. But when I do that, I'm concerned it overvalues Stam; it doesn't use Agi/Stam gems in red sockets for good socket bonuses.

What does one need to do to get it to gem with what the community seems to think is the ideal gemming?

(Also, why is this problem happening in Rawr, and can it be fixed?)

Autrui - Try setting the Survival Soft Cap to something around 350,00 or 400,000. Right now it sounds like you are running into the survival soft cap that was put in place back when T9 raids were the hardest out there. Now ICC bosses hit a lot harder, especially on heroic modes.

I have a resto druid who is just shy of the haste softcap assuming full 25man raid buffs (and no NG/CF). However, rawr wants to replace all my haste or haste+something gems with int or int+something, and doesn't even include any haste gems among its predefined gemming templates (I added reckless, quick, intricate). I thought the common wisdom now was to go for the haste softcap and after that spellpower, while the mana pool shouldn't be a huge issue. Is there perhaps some setting I'm missing to convince rawr to value haste? Thanks.

Edit: I have the relevant custom gemming templates turned on. The only way I've found to get rawr to pick anything with haste is to uncheck all its builtin gemming templates and include only gems with haste in the custom templates. I've added several custom templates with no int, e.g., all quick is one option; another is reckless, quick, intricate, quick; a third is runed, quick, purified, quick (plus in each case a meta of course); and so on. With various combinations of custom templates turned on, rawr always prefers the template with the least haste. I also have "Ignore haste from Nature's Grace..." checked. (In my real gear, I'm not using only quick gems; instead I'm matching color for sufficiently attractive socket bonuses as well as activating the meta, so have 852/856 haste.)

It's been a little while since I used Rawr for Resto, but, make sure it's not averaging Nature's Grace into your haste and underestimating the cap.

4 spellpower is still better than 10 Int. The Int barely adds anything of worth.

Is it bad to be over the haste cap? In best possible gear i can obtain i should have ~800 haste rating. Should i worry about it?

What happened to the resto itemization thread? I was going to post to ask about the new Ruby Sanctum trinket, and if anyone has played with it yet.

It fell off the front page; you can bump it to talk about the new trinket.

Is there a Frost Emblem upgrade priority when moving from 232/245 to 251+? (Currently using 4pT9) Should I be focusing long term on T10 pieces, or take quick fix upgrades for quick boosts? (Ie am Using Black Heart/Icks trinkets, Should I get Corroded Key which has a good STA boost, or suck it up and just focus on the core set?)

I'm sorry if this seems obvious to some of you, but as a relatively new feral tank (and gearing in all blues to try an experimental "undergeared" run), I am trying to understand why I've seen some high end tanks using the 18 Stamina armor kits on their chests instead of 275 Health or 10 Stats. My confusion may just be a sign of my lacking understanding, but help me please.

18 Stamina, after Kings and Dire Bear form, still only gets up to around 23 effective Stamina, right? So why is that being used over the 275 Health option, when it seems to provide less total health? Similarly, doesn't 10 Stats also give you Agi (Armor/Crit) and Strength for mildly more TPS? What am I missing? Thanks.

You're missing a couple stamina multipliers - 25% for Dire Bear Form, 10% for Kings, 10% for HotW, 6% for SotF, and 2% for Improved MotW. Altogether that gives you 16.35 health for each point of stamina, so the 18 stamina enchant gives you 294 health.

Assuming one has both t9.25 and t10 (ilvl251) resto set, are there any fights in ICC10 HM where the t9.25 is superior?

I'm currently collecting the t10 items for resto because it appears to be better most of the time, but since I've not done most of the hard modes I don't know if any benefit from t9 instead of t10.

I'm trying to get a better handling of [Trauma] in RAWR and I'm having a devil of a time nailing down the approximate number of people the proc off of this item can proc off of. I understand that it can proc only in the 10 yard radius from the initial proc, but say in a melee heavy raid, how many people would typically benefit from the proc?

I've got a very basic question. How much faith should I put in Rawr? Rawr tells me to use [Herkuml War Token] & [Whispering Fanged Skull] and not [Whispering Fanged Skull] & [Needle-Encrusted Scorpion]. This confuses me, since ArPen should be my best stat and I'm not reaching the cap.



If the information on wowhead is correct, the weapon effect uses the mechanics of Fountain of Light which heals for X every 1 second for 6 second. So if it Trauma effect switches targets, it seems, it can effect up to 6 targets.

Yes I'll check the stat values individually. I've always assumed NES procs of dots too, but I've never justified that theory. Can someone tell me, if it's true? If it procs on dots, it should get better with the druid t10 4 pieces bonus, since rake will be able to crit.

The uptime for NES is really not that bad; while it does proc on crits it does so very frequently. That being said, there is a point where having 100% arpen some of the time is not as valuable as having x% arpen all of the time + having better proc trinkets, and that's what Rawr is telling you.

I personally switched when I had over 1000 arpen and two good trinkets (WFS and Herk). Ultimately it's going to be up to your personal preference; Rawr isn't perfect as a model, and SimulationCraft is going to give you more accurate results that are configurable. I will say that if your fight has a lot of target switching and/or downtime (like Sindragosa for example) something like NES will be better simply because it will give you more uptime when you're actually on target.

I think on a relative basis to other trinkets it is. Take the MRS for example, both have a 45 ICD, MRS is a 15% chance on any swing, NES is a 10% on crit. Assuming a 65% crit rate and a .8 sec swing, ignoring yellows, and assuming you swing right when the ICD ends you have average down times of 4.5 seconds for the MRS and 17.43 seconds for the NES. Those assumptions are at a pretty high gear level and the gap between the two of them will increase as gear quality goes down, due to NES's dependence on crit. Also adding in yellows and trying to line up the swing time would just hurt NES more as MRS benefits more from each swing since it can proc on all swings vs. only crits.

Despite a 6 iLevel difference the and a 13 ArP difference in proc value, the proc on the MRS is worth:
53 more ArP, over a 2 minute fight
35 more ArP, over a 3 minute fight
26 more ArP, over a 4 minute fight
20 more ArP, over a 5 minute fight
16 more ArP, over a 6 minute fight
30 more ArP, over a 7 minute fight
26 more ArP, over a 8 minute fight
23 more ArP, over a 9 minute fight
21 more ArP, over a 10 minute fight
31 more ArP, over a 10:10 minute fight where you eek out a little dps past enrage

So the up time cost for most fights is leaving 1 gem slot open or 1 open and putting a Puissant Dreadstone in another gem slot, which in my mind if you are min/maxing is a relatively big deal.

Why would you ignore yellows? That seems particularly wrong to me, and it's one of the reasons it does have a reasonable uptime - ferals tend to use a fair amount of yellow hits. I believe it even procs on yellow crits from bleeds.

I'm a bit skeptical of your math as well; 17 seconds past the ICD on average to proc? That seems absurdly low; in that time you'd have 22 white attacks at a 65% crit rate; the chances that none of them proc seems pretty low. Assuming a statistically average number of crits, you've got a 22% likelihood to not proc after 17 seconds - again, assuming only white hits.

In any case I agree that NES isn't going to win compared to having the two high-ilvl trinkets simply because they're better, even when you can't get 100% arpen.

I'd ignore them because I was building a spreadsheet in a couple minutes at work and didn't feel like trying to model in energy regen, OoC procs and rotation, also as I noted in my last post MRS benefits even more from more hits as it has a 15% chance on hit. And in the end it was more for demonstrative purposes for how a lower proc chance on a lower rate event significantly devalued the proc. You are correct that the NES number was off, went and checked my spread sheet, its actually 10.2 sec for NES, targeted the wrong column and was multiplying the event column rather than the time of the event column. The way I got the average is for hit x the chance that NES procs after x hits is 93.5%^(x-1)*6.5%. Then I multiplied that by the time passed for each hit X*.8.

Rerunning the numbers with that fixed it averages out to MRS being 12.4 ArP better over the minute steps, NES does pass MRS lightly for a 6 minute fight.

I was able to compare NES with Herkuml yesterday on Saurfang HC and the difference was pretty small. Herkuml passed NES bei about 1-2%. Regarding Rawr, the 2.3.X.X version wants to regem everything to agi while 3.x prefers ArPen. Since 3.x is newer, although beta, I go with it.
I think the old Rawr perfers Agi because of Imp MoW and it's 2% bonus.


I might be better of with gemming [Lasherweave Legguards] with ArPen/ Haste instead of ArPen/ ArPen. But I'm not exactly sure how much I benefit from hast atm. In Cataclysm when haste effects the energy regeneration, it'll be more important.