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Old 04/01/10, 9:18 AM   #151
Videl
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Druid
 
Cenarius
No need to get all fancy about when in the rotation you cast it. Once per rotation is once per rotation. If you are fixing it at once per rotation, be aware that casting it during an eclipse is a bit of a dps loss compared to outside of eclipse, though it shortens the rotation by a GCD, which may be relevant if you're cutting it that close. I don't think towards the end of solar is the optimal place to put it anyway. Presumably you want to have the moonfire dot up for your pre-solar phase to get the IIS benefit, so you'd want to cast it as late as possible pre-lunar or during lunar if you'd rather cast it during an eclipse.

In my experience, full rotations that take more than 36 seconds are fairly common. I wouldn't feel comfortable planning on them, though there's certainly good opportunity to see the problem coming if your first pre-eclipse phase goes poorly and just throw in an IS for solar to keep the buff up.

That robot strategy is actually casting moonfire anytime it is down and you're not near the beginning of your solar eclipse or right at the end of your lunar (where it would cost you landing that last starfire during the eclipse). More than once per rotation on average.

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Old 04/01/10, 4:13 PM   #152
Yellowsix
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Druid
 
Suramar
I posted an update to the Team Robot simulator, updating the damage coefficient on starfall to 0.3 as observed by erdluf and others.

The default moonkin rotation in the simulator is probably a bit simplistic compared to some of the things being kicked around in this thread. If there is a new rotation that has become the de facto standard, please let me know and I can update the simulator's default.

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Old 04/01/10, 11:52 PM   #153
aceofsween
Don Flamenco
 
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Troll Druid
 
Lightning's Blade
I believe the simplistic rotation of the robot simulator is good for beginning moonkins because it is very simple. With the way things are working now, the rotation you use depends heavily on the glyphs you are using and there is no clear cut winner (with the exception of the Glyph of Starfall).

If anything, it is the standard model that we have improved upon, but the difference (both in results and in the rotation itself) are pretty small.

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Old 04/02/10, 12:44 PM   #154
MÃ nze
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Blackhand (EU)
Does anyone considered prehoting with Rejuv and using [Idol of the Black Willow] pre pull and then switching to the "normal" idol on fights like lets say festergut,rotface where you allready have the boss in range so you can start to nuke right from the start of the fight? Are 256 SP for ~12-13 seconds worth it or is it just to complicated to pull off?

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Old 04/02/10, 2:09 PM   #155
gannonjf
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Druid
 
Korgath
Use wild magic pots, it's easier.

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Old 04/02/10, 5:44 PM   #156
Blades
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Shadowsong (EU)
Originally Posted by Yellowsix View Post
I posted an update to the Team Robot simulator, updating the damage coefficient on starfall to 0.3 as observed by erdluf and others.

The default moonkin rotation in the simulator is probably a bit simplistic compared to some of the things being kicked around in this thread. If there is a new rotation that has become the de facto standard, please let me know and I can update the simulator's default.
Nothing huge, but the default rotation casts heroism before treants which is a DPS loss. (Though not sure how Treants and Heroism are handled by Robot, but this is at least true in game.)

You could also add a sub-rotation for while under heroism too. I usually go with MF and Starfire spam unless I can proc Lunar though this might require a certain gear level to be better then the normal rotation.

Other then that I can't see any way to improve it unless you assume a certain glyph set-up or implement an "if X glyph" condition.

Last edited by Blades : 04/02/10 at 5:50 PM.

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Old 04/03/10, 1:04 AM   #157
aceofsween
Don Flamenco
 
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Troll Druid
 
Lightning's Blade
Originally Posted by M� nze View Post
Does anyone considered prehoting with Rejuv and using [Idol of the Black Willow] pre pull and then switching to the "normal" idol on fights like lets say festergut,rotface where you allready have the boss in range so you can start to nuke right from the start of the fight? Are 256 SP for ~12-13 seconds worth it or is it just to complicated to pull off?
I mean, sure you can start off with a 256 SP boost so technically you can only gain DPS by doing this, but it is a bit of a hassle and the difference is something stupidly small... It comes out to like 7000 damage, less than .01% of your total damage on a 300 second fight.

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Old 04/03/10, 1:20 AM   #158
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Is that including the spellpower benefit to your first Starfall/FoN/DoTs?


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Old 04/03/10, 2:12 AM   #159
aceofsween
Don Flamenco
 
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Troll Druid
 
Lightning's Blade
Honestly? No, I didn't include the cooldowns because like I said before, the difference is squat. I took the difference in the overall DPS between the two and multiplied it out for 15 seconds. That came back with about 7000 damage (I don't remember the exact number).

For the sake of argument though here's a more complete breakdown:

Starfall: +2180
Force of Nature: +100
Moonfire: +675
Insect Swarm: +450
Wrath x3: +650 (expected number of Wraths to cast)
Starfire x4: +3650 (expected Starfires to cast)

Amusingly... that comes up to 7705. In the end, the difference is like I said before.... squat. (And less than a .01% increase).

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Old 04/03/10, 6:24 AM   #160
Ionel
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Trollbane
Originally Posted by M� nze View Post
Does anyone considered prehoting with Rejuv and using [Idol of the Black Willow] pre pull and then switching to the "normal" idol on fights like lets say festergut,rotface where you allready have the boss in range so you can start to nuke right from the start of the fight? Are 256 SP for ~12-13 seconds worth it or is it just to complicated to pull off?
As soon as you swap back to your regular moonkin idol and start casing your dots, the crit buff wll overwrite the spellpower (rejuv) buff. So another thing to consider would be if you were to swap idols would the loss of dps from not using dots be less than the gain from the spell power. Another thing to consider is spending a global to swap to your moonkin idol. Although you can macro this to an instant cast of what-have-you it seems like a bit much.

In a perfect situation, this might be more damage. But with managing dots, eclipse, starfall, and FoN another thing to manage in the first 30 seconds just gives one more instance to screw up. And if you do mess up switching your idol the damage lost thru the fight would totally negate any damage you gained in the first 10 seconds. Just my .02, seems like too much, when you are better off just popping a wild magic pre pull.

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Old 04/03/10, 11:30 AM   #161
Aarondf2003
Glass Joe
 
Troll Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
It's even less of an option for those of us with Phylactery of the Nameless Lich. I have to start a pull with DoTs, wait for the Siphoned Power proc and then cast Starfall (usually only takes 2-3 seconds). Still, it requires the use of immediate MF/IS as opposed to postponing DoTs so your resto idol proc can remain for a few GCDs.

Pot of Wild Magic, GotW, Treants (<<all prepull in two GCDs) IFF, MF, IS, Wrath till Eclipse. The Starfall usually happens after the first Wrath.

I don't have to worry about an initial wrath for Earth and Moon because of our trio of DKs insta-debuffing the boss with the same thing.

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Old 04/03/10, 3:35 PM   #162
Madira
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Malygos
Anyone else see this when viewing stats?

When I look at the character stats under "ranged", I see a reaaaaallly low crit chance than what's under "Spell". However, when I inspect other balance druids, I see their ranged crit chance is around the same level as their spell crit chance. Does anyone know why that is?

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Old 04/04/10, 2:08 AM   #163
qae
Piston Honda
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Kirin Tor (EU)
Originally Posted by Aarondf2003 View Post
ld Magic, GotW, Treants (<<all prepull in two GCDs) IFF, MF, IS, Wrath till Eclipse. The Starfall usually happens after the first Wrath.
Casting Treants prepull seems like a strange idea to me. You need to wait 3-4sec after the pull to have Demonic Pact up usually, and some armor debuffs on target. You may also have the ring and the cloak enchant (if you are tailor) proc at this time, giving quite a nice boost to your treants.

My choice :
Wild Magic+Gotw, IFF, MF, IS, Wrath, Starfall, Starfire, Treants (you can select the position while casting the Starfire since Starfire > GCD), then Wrath if Solar / SF if Lunar / if nothing procced already you can do what you want (you are on perm NG until the end of Starfall anyway).

That way, StarFall is casted ~6sec into the fight, and Treants ~8sec into the fight, still within the duration of Wild Magic. Of course depending on the fight you may want to delay the use of Starfall (like against Putricide)

Last edited by qae : 04/04/10 at 2:15 AM.

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Old 04/04/10, 10:50 AM   #164
Zifrelm
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Burning Blade
Originally Posted by Aarondf2003 View Post
It's even less of an option for those of us with Phylactery of the Nameless Lich.
Similar situation with my Dislodged Foreign Object, except even after waiting for the proc, you've got 18 seconds before the stacks are at maximum.

I've experimented with not popping trees/SFall until my DFO procs and stacks to 8 or 9. Sometimes it's quick, but sometimes, not so much. I've given up on using SFall this way, because the risk of losing a cast at the end of the fight seems too great. (For treants, it's a lot easier to tell on a given fight whether to wait for it.) Anyone else have any experience with this?

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Old 04/05/10, 1:50 PM   #165
aceofsween
Don Flamenco
 
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Troll Druid
 
Lightning's Blade
Correct me if I'm wrong... But doesn't Starfall apply your stats for each individual star? I was always under the impression that it was similar to Hurricane in this way (a spell that casts another spell).

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