Going Forward: Cataclysm Discussion - Page 5

athanyel · 04/09/10, 10:05 PM

The only downside I see to losing Tree of Life as a permanent form will be the inability to shift into Tree while already a tree (/cast !Tree of Life) to break snares. It's a minor complaint and can be remedied with new macros that use bear or cat but it will be a difference between the other specs and Restoration.

Healing Touch was mentioned while I was writing this but I'll mostly be watching to see if they tinker with Tranquility. While HT has a spot in our toolbox with NS, Tranquility simply has too long of a cooldown and too narrow of a focus for any regular use.

Rijndael · 04/09/10, 10:05 PM

No mention of fixing Tranquility (I was hoping for it to become a raid cooldown for us). Would have been nice to have a targeted Barkskin also.

These sorts of changes are possible at a later point, of course, as they are existing spells.

Regrowth may become a 'raid heal clumped targets' spell, due to the talent.

Raised · 04/09/10, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by ttyl

Hopefully they clarify Eclipse in another post. From that small description, it sounds like it will just be a 1 Wrath to 1 Starfire ratio? They specifically said "to maintain the balance", which seems like you want to keep the new UI's dial in the middle?
And how will mastery rating from gear affect Eclipse?

My assumption was the opposite: (with made up numbers)
-Start at +0% bonus
-Every time you cast a nature spell you get a +10% damage bonus to Arcane
-Cast Wrath 10 times
-Your next 10 Starfires will be +100% damage, +90% damage, etc etc.
-Once you get down to 0, start casting Wrath again to build up your meter.

Probably will have an added wrinkle somewhere, but that would mimic the Eclipse of WotLK without being based on hidden cooldowns or wasting the buff if you had to move.

Jezz · 04/09/10, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by kalbear

As a feral these changes are nice but not particularly exciting. Thrash has been hinted at and asked for in various forms since WotLK beta, but it's not a particularly exciting change. Cats being able to do more damage when mangling is nice but again, nothing exciting. Having a kick/pummel analogue is another nice thing.

Essentially ferals appear to largely have gotten the same treatment that they did going from BC to WotLK, which is to fix up class issues that were a problem in the previous content but not give significant changes to the actual class such that it was new or interesting. I was truly hoping ferals would get something on the order of camo, smoke bomb or heroic leap; even if those aren't raid-useful, they're fun, new abilities that do something very different.

I'm also disappointed that savage defense is sticking around. Hopefully they'll have revamped it considerably from its current clunky, unintuitive system.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts. None of the big changes were particularly surprising, the main ones could have been predicted by anyone who had played a druid for more than a few weeks. Stampeding Roar could have been an interesting ability if it were given to a class that didn't already have sprint/dash, it is a cooldown that does provide unique utility and I don't doubt it will be very useful in quite a lot of situations, it just seems we could of been given something a little more fun.

Wild Mushroom seems to me like a concept that Blizzard liked but really didn't find a proper use for. I don't really see what this ability does for the balance tree at all.

• Adoriele · 04/09/10, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by Raised

My assumption was the opposite: (with made up numbers)
-Start at +0% bonus
-Every time you cast a nature spell you get a +10% damage bonus to Arcane
-Cast Wrath 10 times
-Your next 10 Starfires will be +100% damage, +90% damage, etc etc.
-Once you get down to 0, start casting Wrath again to build up your meter.

Probably will have an added wrinkle somewhere, but that would mimic the Eclipse of WotLK without being based on hidden cooldowns or wasting the buff if you had to move.

Except that once you're at the endpoint, there's no reason to move back to center. Alternating SF/Wrath will give you 100% extra damage on half of your casts. If you cast back to center, you'll get an average of 50% across your next 10 casts, but then you'll have to cast 10 0% wraths to get back up.

Finding an implementation that actually encourages moving between center and an endpoint isn't easy. Not to mention finding an implementation that encourages moving back and forth between both endpoints.

Nitz · 04/09/10, 10:24 PM

As a Resto Druid, I kind of wanted something about Healing Touch and Tranquility, two spells that currently have almost no use where others have a well-defined (if narrow) one. And the information is meager at best, what Efflorescence is supposed to do? Regrowth heals more? Or is it a healing Consecrate-like ability?

Tree of Life could become our 'save-the-tank' talent with these changes.

KraxisSingular · 04/09/10, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by Raised

My assumption was the opposite: (with made up numbers)
-Start at +0% bonus
-Every time you cast a nature spell you get a +10% damage bonus to Arcane
-Cast Wrath 10 times
-Your next 10 Starfires will be +100% damage, +90% damage, etc etc.
-Once you get down to 0, start casting Wrath again to build up your meter.

Probably will have an added wrinkle somewhere, but that would mimic the Eclipse of WotLK without being based on hidden cooldowns or wasting the buff if you had to move.

This new Eclipse appears to be a lot more, shall we say userfriendly. It is now a planable effects rather than a chance. For instance a fight with definate burst phases would cater extremely well to this. Say BQL just before a bite, there you stack up whichever side is best and unleash hell when needed. Or if you know a lot of adds are coming you build up the Nature side and blow them away with Hurricane... Hmm, then one should expect IS and MF to be affected as well.

They do need to explain how long the meter stays on one side. Until formchange? Until out of combat? Set number of seconds/minutes? Doesn't reset?

Krag · 04/09/10, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by Adoriele

Except that once you're at the endpoint, there's no reason to move back to center. Alternating SF/Wrath will give you 100% extra damage on half of your casts. If you cast back to center, you'll get an average of 50% across your next 10 casts, but then you'll have to cast 10 0% wraths to get back up.

Finding an implementation that actually encourages moving between center and an endpoint isn't easy. Not to mention finding an implementation that encourages moving back and forth between both endpoints.

I don't know that it's necessarily needed to find an implementation where you use both endpoints in the same fight, as long as they get balance druids to use more than one set of spells it might be fine to only use one half of the meter so to say, the choice being made by whether you favour the arcane or nature side which could come down to encounter, gear, talent setup or something else.

I agree though that pushing the needle to max and then alternating starfire and wrath (for simplification) is likely not what they are going for. It might be something like that it takes fewer casts to empty the meter than to fill it up, or that Nature's Torrent takes big chunks out of it.

Fooma · 04/09/10, 10:29 PM

Interesting that there is no mention of our dots benefiting from haste and crit innately, as compared to the trend of the other classes with Dots previewed so far.

Also with the eclipse change, it says the bonus is by damage type not by specific spells. I can only imaging the horrors of theorycrafting when to moonfire or insect swarm as to not swing the bonus around irregularly without your direct control.

ttyl · 04/09/10, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by Adoriele

Finding an implementation that actually encourages moving between center and an endpoint isn't easy. Not to mention finding an implementation that encourages moving back and forth between both endpoints.

Yeah, they left out the important part(s). Perhaps you don't gain any increased damage until you hit "full moon" or "full sun", at which point your meter goes back to "balanced" and you gain a short buff that increases Nature or Arcane damage? There would have to be an ICD to convince you to swap between sun and moon. How will they add mastery into this? Each cast has a chance (increased by mastery rating) to move the meter? That sounds just like WotLK's Eclipse with a bit more control.

Krag · 04/09/10, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by Fooma

Interesting that there is no mention of our dots benefiting from haste and crit innately, as compared to the trend of the other classes with Dots previewed so far.

Clarified by Ghostcrawler just now.

Most hots and dots, including druid ones, will benefit from haste and crit. The exceptions are things like Deep Wounds and Ignite, which are already tied to crit.

Lamente · 04/09/10, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by Adoriele

Except that once you're at the endpoint, there's no reason to move back to center. Alternating SF/Wrath will give you 100% extra damage on half of your casts. If you cast back to center, you'll get an average of 50% across your next 10 casts, but then you'll have to cast 10 0% wraths to get back up.

Finding an implementation that actually encourages moving between center and an endpoint isn't easy. Not to mention finding an implementation that encourages moving back and forth between both endpoints.

I can see your point. The quick-and-dirty interpretation would be to get the meter moved all the way in one direction and then alternate your fully-eclipsed spell with your other spell to keep the meter full. The easy fix that comes to mind would be to have a short cooldown after an eclipsed spell is cast (read: only when the spell is powered up) that prevents the opposite spell from affecting the eclipse meter. I guess we'll see what they come up with.

And how will mastery rating from gear affect Eclipse?

It will improve the damage gained from eclipsed spellcasts, presumably.

• Adoriele · 04/09/10, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by Lamente

I can see your point. The quick-and-dirty interpretation would be to get the meter moved all the way in one direction and then alternate your fully-eclipsed spell with your other spell to keep the meter full. The easy fix that comes to mind would be to have a short cooldown after an eclipsed spell is cast (read: only when the spell is powered up) that prevents the opposite spell from affecting the eclipse meter. I guess we'll see what they come up with.

Right. I haven't even figured out an implementation yet that doesn't just encourage 1-1 swapping. I assume that Blizzard has, because they've had time to work on it (we've known Eclipse was changing for months now), and I'd like to know what it is. Until we get clarification, though, I'm good with puzzling it out on my own (or collectively).

Makael · 04/09/10, 11:54 PM

I'm wondering if it'll end up being similar to Arcane Blast; casting Wrath boosts the damage of your next Arcane spell, then it resets back to zero after you use it.

Kirian · 04/10/10, 12:16 AM

Sounds like cats are getting quite a boost between mangle damage getting buffed, a kick, bonus bleeding from mastery, and haste and crit on bleeds--presumably removing Primal Gore as a talent.

I do wonder how they plan to both add haste to bleeds and make the cat rotation easier--it likely will mean more Rakes will be necessary without at least 34% haste (to get one extra tick). Rip will, thankfully, get a giant boost without a huge amount of micromanagement.