Hunter Simple Questions / Simple Answers: Cataclysm Edition - Page 22

Rivkah · 12/22/11, 12:57 PM

I increased the proc rate on my site for Kiril to 35% last night since it looks like there's enough data to support that. Other than that I believe my current implementation is as accurate as it can get given that it has to be applied averaged over the fight. For the record, 10/55 is 18.18%, so a 17.5% uptime on the full version of the buff seems about right to me. I had it modeled at 7.75x the base agility stacking amount over the 20 seconds, but after looking at the logs, it looks like you're really only getting 19 seconds out of the buff (1 sec each at the first 9 stacks and 10 sec at 10 stacks), so I'm going to change it to 7.63x the base agility over 19 seconds.

Kilroy · 12/22/11, 6:28 PM

I have the normal version of Kiril and here's a parse of a nights worth of DS10 kills up to spine (click on Buffs cast tab):

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Fury of the Beast (36.2% uptime) is the proc from the weapon that enables you to stack Beast Fury (34.5% uptime).

daimonie · 01/15/12, 7:00 PM

Testing with a chimera showed me that my pet gets teleported to my side when i switch platforms during the Madness of Deathwing Encounter. By channeling his AOE, i could note exacly what he was doing.

From my log, i can see that Ferocious Inspiration and Spirit bond were gained 9 times. This seems to be:

Dismiss / Summon Pet
Jump to Yellow
Jump to Red
Jump to Yellow
Jump to Green
Jump to Blue
Jump to Green
Dissmiss/Summon

Add in this from the start of the fight, found in the log browser

[21:13:27.796] Chimearon's Ferocious Inspiration fades from Splee
[21:13:29.435] Splee gains Ferocious Inspiration from Ðazgûl

We gain the grand total of 9 - telling us that the buffs on our pets are reset when jumping, including Frenzy. Is this conclusion true, or am i missing something here?

Zeel · 01/19/12, 7:30 AM

Originally Posted by daimonie

Testing with a chimera showed me that my pet gets teleported to my side when i switch platforms during the Madness of Deathwing Encounter.

Further testing shows that pets spawns on a new platform even if it dies on previous one. I don't think Blizzard intended it this way, but whether it could be used for something new, I haven't figured out. It's unlikely that pet dies "by itself" in this encounter.

Grimmarg · 01/21/12, 5:08 AM

I've been wondering about this for a while, and I can't seem to find an answer anywhere.

Do SV hunters (or BM for that matter), need to renew SrS when bosses get "increased damage taken"-debuffs (like ball hitting zon'ozz, or when DW is channeling Cataclysm on Madness)...?

I think it's supposed to increase on it's own, but I wasn't sure. Same question when it comes to own buffs, like potions. Does it need renewal then, and if so, does it continue to tick at that increased agility level over the entire fight?

Nooska · 01/21/12, 6:24 AM

Originally Posted by Grimmarg

I've been wondering about this for a while, and I can't seem to find an answer anywhere.

Do SV hunters (or BM for that matter), need to renew SrS when bosses get "increased damage taken"-debuffs (like ball hitting zon'ozz, or when DW is channeling Cataclysm on Madness)...?

I think it's supposed to increase on it's own, but I wasn't sure. Same question when it comes to own buffs, like potions. Does it need renewal then, and if so, does it continue to tick at that increased agility level over the entire fight?

You are right that its not outright stated anywhere.
The buffs and debuffs you get are "only" checked when you apply a spell. The buffs and debuffs your target has is checked every tick of dots. But even if you get a buff you don't need to reapply SrS, because everytime you refresh it via CoS it counts as a new application (checking your buffs and debuffs).
So, short answer, no, you don't, and you have the right understanding of how things work - almost.

wilegenuis · 01/27/12, 3:30 AM

Originally Posted by daimonie

We gain the grand total of 9 - telling us that the buffs on our pets are reset when jumping, including Frenzy. Is this conclusion true, or am i missing something here?

I did some digging in my logs to see what is happening with the strange life cycle of pets during jumps. First it seems you are right, each time the pet jumps (or try to jumps) all his buffs fades away.

[23:50:15.744] Scrab's Temporal Displacement fades from Scrab
[23:50:15.744] Scrab's Culling the Herd fades from Scrab
[23:50:15.744] Scrab's Dash fades from Scrab
[23:50:15.744] Scrab's Frenzy Effect fades from Scrab

What is more annoying is that I start the fight as a SOLO DPS on the blue platform until the wing reach 91%, than I jump back to the green platform to assist with the bolt. While I jump from blue to green, pet dies in 50% of the cases with no major damage done on him.

[23:50:15.744] Mutated Corruption Crush Scrab 7738 (O: 1262)
[23:50:16.112] Scrab dies

I suspect that the issue is that the pet does not jump with you, instead is being automatically dismissed and called with very low health pool for the 1st second, allowing a tiny damage to kill him

daimonie · 01/31/12, 7:21 AM

If I understand it correctly, the mechanics of disengage say you're at the spot were you started until you land. On heroic Morchok, can I disengage through the boss without fear of a Stomp?

Hamsda · 01/31/12, 8:01 AM

Since the secondary target of Stomp is the person closest to his current target disengaging should generally be no problem but in general there should be enough of a delay between Stomp and the explosion of the crystal to disengage after morchok stomps.

pichuca · 01/31/12, 11:06 AM

Yesterday did HC ultraxion for first time and needed to use the Dragonhawk pet for the +8% magical damage debuff, since our boomkin goes tank for this one. What I find is that the debuff is rarely applied to the boss, almost never works on auto, I need to manually cast it in order to be applied, plus it cannot be reapplied while it is active.

Here are the logs
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis trys
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis kill

I´m gonna try a wind serpent tonight to see if it works but I´m not confident about it

Would macro'ing it to any shot work well?

gormanthomas · 01/31/12, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by pichuca

Would macro'ing it to any shot work well?

I was able to mantain a 95.9% up-time by macro'ing it to AS.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Repins · 01/31/12, 1:00 PM

Originally Posted by daimonie

If I understand it correctly, the mechanics of disengage say you're at the spot were you started until you land. On heroic Morchok, can I disengage through the boss without fear of a Stomp?

Disengage as a whole doesn't make much sense so finding a complete answer without someone saying yes it works or no it doesn't work is going to be hard. Generally disengage works like how you described. It allowed you to go through cutters on Halion and take damage from a melee while disengage off of lumbermill. However certain mechanics don't treat it like that. Shadow traps on Lich King didn't for example. You couldn't disengage over them. You can't disengage over Magma Traps on Heroic Ragnaros. For some reason certain mechanics take into effect where you actually are, and not just where you took off from. I don't know why there is a difference and I know this is not a very comprehensive list. However from my relatively small experiences these are the two that I distinctly remember just ignoring how the mechanic typically works.

Hamsda · 01/31/12, 4:19 PM

Originally Posted by pichuca

I´m gonna try a wind serpent tonight to see if it works but I´m not confident about it

Would macro'ing it to any shot work well?

Our hunter had the same issue with a windserpent on our first tries. He decided to manually cast it because otherwise it'd be used way too often... but if it can't be reapplied while active then macroing it should be fine, might need some spamming though if the pet just used an ability.

R00k!3 · 02/27/12, 9:10 PM

I always wondered if there is a magic spot for applying hunters mark on short living targets like the tendons on spine or the dragons at Blackhorn. Did anybody come up with a number and would share it?

Whitefyst · 02/28/12, 2:34 PM

Originally Posted by R00k!3

I always wondered if there is a magic spot for applying hunters mark on short living targets like the tendons on spine or the dragons at Blackhorn. Did anybody come up with a number and would share it?

There is no one definitive answer that fits all situations. The tradeoff for casting HM or not depends on several factors including:
1) Your spec. If you are MM with Marked for Death, you do not cast Hunter's Mark, instead you start with CS or AS to get the pseudo Hunter's Mark.
2) Your DPS on the target, which invloves the folloawing factors:
- What standard buffs you have and what debuffs will be on the target
- Your rotation used
- Whether you have dynamic buffs like RF, BL, trinket procs etc
3) if they are other hunters in the raid that benefit from the mark

For a given scenario, you can figure the value out in a sim for configuring the run per the scenario. Do two runs, one for your DPS with HM and one without HM.
Then find the time where the runs intersect in damage done when you start the DPS for the HM version 1 GCD late due to casting the HM.

Here is an example using my character as SV for a 1m (unfortunately FD cannot do shorter) run with using RF and with all buffs/debuffs immediately on the target (this assumes you can perform a perfect rotation like FD does):

DPS with HM: 47903 = a
DPS w/o HM: 45828 = b

Hence, the formula for the crossing point is:

b * t = a * (t - 1)

Thus,

b * t = a * t - a

(a - b) * t = a

t = a / (a - b)

So for this idealized case: t = 47903 / (47903 - 45828) = 23.09s

Hence, considering how small HM's AP is to our overall buffed AP, the decision to cast HM for you being the only hunter on the target is a lot longer than it was in previous expansions and vanilla. Assuming that your actual DPS scales the same for both cases with and without HM that the timing should still apply.