[Cataclysm] - Survival Hunter - Page 25

Cinderglow · 01/25/11, 9:12 AM

Originally Posted by EMMERICH

Hey Kask!

I would recommend this too. Although I've no experience on Nefarian in particular there are encounters where using Raptor Strike will really help your survivability.

One example that comes to mind is Valiona & Theralion. Their hitbox is such that you can stand in range to melee and shoot at the same time, meaning you could have near 100% uptime on the 20% damage reduction during "gather-for-Blackout" phases.

Spending that much time using Raptor Strike is silly. It's nice in the Nefarian situation because the lightning generator can take like 85% of your health without a raid sac. It's a neat tool but forgoing damage for 100% uptime just seems excessive.

26thraider · 01/25/11, 9:31 AM

He meant during the gather process. Not the entire fight. It would in fact be fairly similar to Nef in that regard.

Eva · 01/25/11, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by EMMERICH

meaning you could have near 100% uptime on the 20% damage reduction during "gather-for-Blackout" phases.

As a little correction: the cooldown on Raptor Strike is six seconds, while the glyph grants 5 seconds of reduced damage. Therefor the maximum uptime is 83,3 (repeating ofcourse) percent.

R00k!3 · 01/25/11, 6:04 PM

We successfully killed Nefarian in our 10 man group yesterday.
I can strongly recommend the glyph too, I used Raptorstrike before each Crackle and during P2, since the randomness of Shadowflame Barrage can be pretty tough to out heal for your Healers.
The Uptime was about 19% as you can see here: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Furthermore I would recommend to switch in Aspect of the Wild if there is no Shaman or if the totems are not in range for everybody during p2.

catbeef · 01/25/11, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by Noleafclover

On another note, I think it might be useful to update the glyph section with this one:

Glyph of Raptor Strike - Spell - World of Warcraft

It's situational, I know, but on Nefarian it's literally a life saver. All you have to do is to time it with the lightning discharges. It only costs one gcd to use and you can stand close enough to use it and shoot. I imagine it might be equally useful in all the other situations when the omgwtfpwn moment is coming, provided you have anything around that you might melee. Since there aren't that many must-have major glyphs, it's not much of a problem to fit it in, and it provides a defensive cooldown that hunters sorely miss against AoE.

Another fun quirk worth noting, the glyph effect still activates even on a miss/dodge/parry.

*waits for a blizzard bunny to see this and chalk it up for hot-fixing*

chewziyuan · 01/26/11, 4:45 AM

Originally Posted by catbeef

Another fun quirk worth noting, the glyph effect still activates even on a miss/dodge/parry.

*waits for a blizzard bunny to see this and chalk it up for hot-fixing*

The wording says "after using raptor strike".

This means that you will get the damage reduction buff after you cast/use the skill irregardless of it landing or not.

bobbyfletcher · 01/27/11, 7:48 AM

I got Essence of the Cyclone a few weeks ago and can't figure out, how to maximise dps during that tiny 10s procc. Is it actually worth it to fire Arcane Shots instead of reapplying Black Arrow, while the procc is up?

I recommend the Glyph of Raptor Strike, too. I used it on every Blackout, on the Valiona and Theralion encounter. It also works very well in Chimaeron's Feud-Phase.

Noleafclover · 01/27/11, 3:29 PM

Most likely if you start spamming Arcanes just because of the proc, you'll end up with your rotation screwed up, your focus regen out of control and you'll have to delay not only BA (and consequently LnL) but possibly even the normal ES.
Survival rotation doesn't allow freestyling. Focus regen is low compared to the needs. I'd say don't try to get out of your way to take advantage of the proc. Do what you always do and you'll simply get more crits from the shots within that 10 second period. There will usually be 2 ES within that time, and if you use BA you might even get lucky and proc a LnL. Or maybe not. It's just RNG. Sometimes you're lucky, sometimes you're not. Just live with it.

Shadowwaltz · 01/27/11, 6:25 PM

Originally Posted by EMMERICH

Hey Kask!

I would recommend this too. Although I've no experience on Nefarian in particular there are encounters where using Raptor Strike will really help your survivability.

One example that comes to mind is Valiona & Theralion. Their hitbox is such that you can stand in range to melee and shoot at the same time, meaning you could have near 100% uptime on the 20% damage reduction during "gather-for-Blackout" phases.

It's not just the dragons. Almost every Cata boss has a hitbox that allows you to range & melee at the same time. I use it on Cho'gall during his shadow aoe to help the healers save mana for p2. You can use it on Chimaeron's feud. If people are dead you can use it on Argaloth in BH to survive his meteor strike.

Edit: Been using this macro:

#showtooltip Raptor Strike
/cast [@mouseover,exists,harm,nodead] Raptor Strike; Raptor Strike

Helps for fights with adds so you don't have to drop your target.

Namarus · 01/27/11, 7:41 PM

Originally Posted by Shadowwaltz

It's not just the dragons. Almost every Cata boss has a hitbox that allows you to range & melee at the same time. I use it on Cho'gall during his shadow aoe to help the healers save mana for p2. You can use it on Chimaeron's feud. If people are dead you can use it on Argaloth in BH to survive his meteor strike.

Edit: Been using this macro:

#showtooltip Raptor Strike
/cast [@mouseover,exists,harm,nodead] Raptor Strike; Raptor Strike

Helps for fights with adds so you don't have to drop your target.

I think it is a lot less than almost all. The only bosses that I can think of off hand that you can both melee and range attack are Cho'gall, Nef.

You cannot definitely use it on, Magmaw, Maloriak, Halfus, Atramades, Omintron.

I have not done conclusive testing of all mobs though.

Shadowwaltz · 01/27/11, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by Namarus

I think it is a lot less than almost all. The only bosses that I can think of off hand that you can both melee and range attack are Cho'gall, Nef.

You cannot definitely use it on, Magmaw, Maloriak, Halfus, Atramades, Omintron.

I have not done conclusive testing of all mobs though.

Those bosses you listed are bosses where you either don't need to raptor strike, or it's more important for you to be in position farther away from the boss, meaning you wouldn't be able to anyway.

maurihb · 01/28/11, 6:08 AM

There is currently a discussion about SV AOE going on in the MM thread. To avoid going off topic, I post here my concerns about this topic.

From what I've seen heroic maloriak is a great example of an AOE intensive fight. Swills have over 1.8M health and there is not much time between the phases to kill them. Currently I'm using CoS, MS, ET and Autoshots, looking at the logs and spell damage distribution it might be a good idea to use a wind serpent. But also two questions come to my mind, and sadly I wasn't able to properly test this due to wipes and limited number of attempts I've done:

LnL: with the amount of targets and the number of ticks of ET you are almost certain to have this proc. Is it worth using the free ES? and if yes, how? ES>CoS>ES or switch targets and do ES>ES. I'm not sure if the ES damage compensate the focus regen lost.
SrS clip: SrS does most of our dps during this phase, but by doing MS>MS we are clipping the first tick. wouldn't it be better to do MS>CoS>CoS>MS? if this is true then RF might not be worth using in this phase.

♦ Tobin · 01/28/11, 9:32 AM

Originally Posted by maurihb

There is currently a discussion about SV AOE going on in the MM thread. To avoid going off topic, I post here my concerns about this topic.

From what I've seen heroic maloriak is a great example of an AOE intensive fight. Swills have over 1.8M health and there is not much time between the phases to kill them. Currently I'm using CoS, MS, ET and Autoshots, looking at the logs and spell damage distribution it might be a good idea to use a wind serpent. But also two questions come to my mind, and sadly I wasn't able to properly test this due to wipes and limited number of attempts I've done:

LnL: with the amount of targets and the number of ticks of ET you are almost certain to have this proc. Is it worth using the free ES? and if yes, how? ES>CoS>ES or switch targets and do ES>ES. I'm not sure if the ES damage compensate the focus regen lost.
SrS clip: SrS does most of our dps during this phase, but by doing MS>MS we are clipping the first tick. wouldn't it be better to do MS>CoS>CoS>MS? if this is true then RF might not be worth using in this phase.

When LnL procs, I hit explosive shot, switch to a different target and hit it again. During that phase I am usually switching to the highest hp target anyway. As far as multishot technique goes, I typically use two in quick succession as they spawn for misdirecting purposes, then naturally weave cobras in between. You shouldn't have excess focus to fire two multishots in a row while the swill are still alive.

Swills need sustained AoE DPS and you can get away with having them at low health going into the next vial phase. If you use RF on the first set of Swills, you won't have it again for the next set anyway. Aberrations on the other hand need burst AoE DPS. I use an agility pot on the first set around the and my second on the second set around the 8-minute mark.

alienangel · 01/28/11, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by maurihb

...
From what I've seen heroic maloriak is a great example of an AOE intensive fight. Swills have over 1.8M health and there is not much time between the phases to kill them. Currently I'm using CoS, MS, ET and Autoshots, looking at the logs and spell damage distribution it might be a good idea to use a wind serpent. But also two questions come to my mind, and sadly I wasn't able to properly test this due to wipes and limited number of attempts I've done:

LnL: with the amount of targets and the number of ticks of ET you are almost certain to have this proc. Is it worth using the free ES? and if yes, how? ES>CoS>ES or switch targets and do ES>ES. I'm not sure if the ES damage compensate the focus regen lost.
SrS clip: SrS does most of our dps during this phase, but by doing MS>MS we are clipping the first tick. wouldn't it be better to do MS>CoS>CoS>MS? if this is true then RF might not be worth using in this phase.

A windserpent wouldn't help much unless you plan to manually move it from target to target to since it only applies the debuff single-target AFAIK. A better option is to have an unholy DK or moonkin provide the identical effect - I believe warlocks still provide it too, but I'm not sure if their version goes up during AoE or not. On this note, since I've been stuck with a on-use mastery boost trinket for a while, saving its use for AoE is nice, since as you note most of our AoE is elemental.

Personally I think using the free LnL ES is worth it unless you have quite a large number of targets, since even though every MS+iSrS is a lot of combined damage, an ES is a lot of damage too, and using an ES only slightly postpones the next MS+iSrS (either by using a 1s gcd, or by not getting the focus regen from a cobra shot during the next ~1.6s of regen time - note that you're still getting regular focus regen during the ES gcd, and I think you may even get some extra focus from Thrill of the Hunt? I'm not sure how TotH works on a free LnL ES crit. It's critical to keep track of where you are in the LnL proc though - accidentally firing the non-free ES after LnL can waste a lot of focus better spent on a multishot.

As for SrS clipping, waiting one tick might be worth it for adds that will be up a while and you know you'll need to cobra shot to keep up dps for subsequent MSs, but for other that die very quickly I don't think it's worth it.

Whitefyst · 01/28/11, 2:01 PM

For LnL during AoE, I use a similar philosophy as during single target. I want to use my LnL procs and ES and to space them out a bit to reduce clipping. Hence, I do either MS or CoS, depending on my amount of focus between the free ESs. The penalty of using ES instead of CoS is not that much. It is only the difference in the 9 focus you would have gained with CoS versus the much more damage with ES and the cast time savings if CoS cast is greater than the GCD.

And yes, I forgot to include the LnL procs in my SV versus MM AoE comparison in the MM thread. I do not plan to add it to the analysis though since it will not be easy to do with the current FD settings as I know them (can't just tell it to do LnL ESs only) and since it was already pretty clear that SV still leads in AoE after PTR.