ES ES AS ES depends on your situation. Others report it works flawlessly. I have similar results to yours, though: ES ES AS ES causes me to get 8 ticks of ES. The solution is simple: just throw another AS in there. ES ES AS AS ES. Fixes the 8 tick problem without much dps loss at all (if any). This is pretty much always do-able with the new tier set bonus as the new chore for hunters this tier is trying to avoid focus capping.
Executive summary: If you can get 9 ticks out of ES, ES, AS, ES it is possible that you suck at dps.
This is actually dependent on your latency. If you do play at low latency <50ish you can expect to lose a tick. If you play on higher latency such as 250ish (aka the rest of the world outside US) you can expect to get all your ticks irrelevantly of how tightly you spam your keys.
I use a mousewheel for my casts - it is impossible to get them any tighter, of course one could argue about a decimal of a millisecond as compared to a keybind hardware spam macro, but that is not going to make sufficient amount of difference at the end of the fight, even if it's 10 minutes long.
As much as people like to believe that the 'custom lag tolerance' resolves that issue - I would argue to the fact that it does absolutely nothing. I have tested it with the option turned on and off and the combat log still shows the same delay caused by latency - a 1 second GCD, for example, becomes 1.3 seconds with 300 ping, etc.
This is a fairly well documented factor, not only in FD, but also in MM thread where Whitefyst explicitly states that you have to add certain amounts of haste to accommodate for latency caused increase of GCD.
The whole discussion earlier was with regards to exactly that.
ES ES AS ES with 50 latency = 8 ticks
ES ES AS ES with 300 latency = 9 ticks
This is very simple: each GCD with 300 ping is 1.3 seconds. You are casting 3 GCD shots before the final ES = you are actually adding 0.9 seconds which resolves the issue with the final 9th tick. So if Krennick for example, leaves a small gap without casting anything before the final ES he will get the 9 ticks. Higher latency naturally adds that little wait time. This is a rather poor design from Blizzard in sense that they inevitably limiting players with higher latency from ever being the truly highest ranking DPS.
With regards to required haste levels, correct me if I am wrong, but with the 2T13 the haste requirement has become rather obsolete: you no longer have to have cycles with 3 CSs. From my experience raiding with SV in current content - as low as 500ish haste is more than sufficient. Of course this has to take in account the amount of latency you have to ensure that you do not lose too much time waiting for ES to come off the CD (when the time left is < 1 GCD) or have to finish after the ES is off the CD. The goal of haste is to ensure that you are ready to cast ES the very moment it's off the CD. There is no one single cycle to use, you could / should have cycles where you get 2 AS, or 1 AS or even 3 AS, each of these cycles would have a different amount of CS casts, hence the amount of haste required for each to be tight is going to vary. Additionally, haste only affects 2 things: the amount of auto-shots and CS cast time. The amount of CS casts required to sustain a solid cycle with 2T13 is so small that haste has become a nearly obsolete stat in that sense. With regards to auto-attacks and haste - it's a very small portion of our DPS, so i really don't see a point worrying much about it when you can increase all of your elemental damage (80ish% of your total damage) or your crit.
One issue Krennick points out well is that 'custom lag tolerance' introduces spell Qing - that, at least for me, causes a certain amount of LnL procs to be wasted on AS as the first cast. Basically LnL procs right after you Qed AS, and no matter your reaction - there is nothing you can do about it - it will eat the first stack of LnL. The chances of that happening are not drastically high - I've had something like 3-4 occasions of that happening in about a total of 3 hours of combat.
Thats not how latency works.
Your latency is the inherent delay between the client and the server. You lose no ticks due to having low latency as the ticks are calculated serverside, not clientside, and while ability request sent to the server are timestamped, this has no effect on the calculation. The 8 or 9 ticks depend on latency fluctuation - either the ones getting 9ticks have increasing latency so the server has a slightly longer delay between requests than your keypresses (or requests sent) - OR - the ones getting 8 ticks has a decreasing latency, so the server recieves the request with a lower interval than you press. The timestamps function in a way that the server checks whether the client has performed a legal action - but does not incorporate them into the serverside calculations.
If you have consistent latency then you will always get either 8 or 9 ticks, regardless of distance to target dependant only on whether latency is playing tricks with the 8-group or the 9-group.
Of course, the lower your normal latency, the higher the chance that a sligth change will adversely affect you, compared to having a high latency.
As Neith points out at the very last, spell queueing is actually more likely to play havoc with your usage of procs, and thus the spam clicking/pressing is definately not a gain if you have spell queueing "enabled" - and is a bad habit anyway, much better to train yourself to the rythm of when you can press a key (also more healthy for your fingers in th elong run, and I assume most of us prefer to have the useage of our fingers when we get older - I know I prefer being able to play games when I reach old age as well).
Before the holiday, I was looking at my CS and AS values during the CA phase and wasn't convinced that I should be dropping AS for the entire phase--on the face of it, a 1 second AS with 45% crit did more dps than a 1.5 second CS with 100% crit. The conventional wisdom is that using AS during the CA phase is as dps loss (and the default settings to FD reflects this), but a more accurate way of phrasing that might be, "It's a dps loss as long as you're also using a dynamic haste effect like Rapid Fire." For fights like Zon'ozz, where you are probably popping Rapid Fire outside of CA range, or Ultraxion, where Rapid Fire won't last for the entire duration of the CA phase, switching back to using AS when your CS cast time is "normal" (1.56 seconds in this instance) looks like a dps gain.
The profile at FD used is HunterSVAllCA. RF and AS are removed from the priority queue. Fight is 100% in CA range. All buffs except Bloodlust. Adding AS to the queue is (admittedly small) a gain.
Which means when LnL procs, ES-AS-ES-AS-ES should be the highest DPS rotation if you have the focus.
For many people, the primary win for this change is that we won't lose LnL procs to AS shots that were in progress at the time. Additionally, the two drivers that maximize LnL DPS are getting ES on cooldown ASAP and not missing any ES ticks. Given the current DoT implementation for ES, there will only be further benefit at very low latency.
<50ms latency: ES AS ES AS ES minimizes risk of clipping while continuously dpsing.
50-300ms latency: DoT refresh only requires a single shot, so ES is on CD faster with ES ES AS ES
>300ms latency: accumulated latency for instant shots prevents DoT clipping, so ES ES ES is best
Changes to Simc are required to simulate the latency impacts and ES pushbacks more carefully. For example, at 10ms latency, ES AS ES AS ES lands the third ES back to 4.040 seconds, whereas without the additional AS, it could potentially have landed the ES (and started ES's CD) at 3.030 seconds. That's pushes the ES cooldown back by 1.01 seconds, which reduces the number of ES's that get landed during the fight. Actually landing the third ES at 3.03 would risk clipping, however, since latency is typically variable (e.g., instead of 10ms latency, it would be more like 9-30ms). In my example, 30ms is not a lot of protection from clipping; one packet delay and the DoT gets clipped. So the key question is: How much additional delay is worth inserting in order to protect from the variability of network latency, as opposed to just inserting the additional AS (which gets some dps and precludes clipping, but pushes the ES out by a fair bit)? Just for a concrete datapoint, I took data from a recent (regular) Ultraxion fight.
AS dmg avg.
ES dmg avg.
Based on the above data, I compute how many ES would be lost because from cumulative delay to the ES cooldown, and then how much additional dps we get from using that delayed time for AS shots. The pushback also delays all other shots, so an inserted AS only gets "credit" for the amount of otherwise dead time that it uses for an AS (e.g., if ES is delayed by 0.7 seconds, I add ~0.3 * the AS dmg.)
Total ES pushback
ES dmg lost
AS dmg gained
So for this example, the break even would be right around 0.65 seconds of pushback on the ES; more than that and ES AS ES AS ES is a dps loss vs. ES ES AS ES. So waiting half a second would avoid clipping and be a dps increase. This napkin math has a pretty long average delay in LnL because of the mechanics of the Ultraxion fight. With a tighter ES timing of 6.1 seconds, the breakeven gets tighter (rgiht around 0.5 seconds at 6.1 seconds/ES). The numbers (300-800dps) are large enough to be interesting though, so I look forward to being able to simulate them.
I am rather curious about the effect of t13 4p on our rotation.
Haste procs should scale poorly against our static rotation: ArS is GCD capped at 1.0s already. CoS scales with haste, but it's also our lowest DPET ability.
I'm imagining a situation where we might want to dump with KC during haste procs to improve haste scaling, with timers set to monitor the ICD of the 4p bonus. Obv would dump through ArS when under a different haste proc but we're eligible for a 4p haste proc. Has anyone evaluated it?
Simcraft is my friend, I can explore the answer to this if nobody else has.
Why would you want to dump with KC? Arcane Shot scales with SV mastery, and can also proc Sic’Em. KC does have 9% higher crit chance, but it also costs twice as much focus. And I’m not sure how KC would improve our haste scaling? I don’t really see how our T13 4-set would change the preferred focus dump.
Even though the whole haste plateau stuff isn’t really applicable anymore, haste still is a nice stat. Shorter Cobra Shot times means more focus regen and this more room for focus dump with Arcane Shot. Haste also increases our autoshot speed, focus regen (though the impact is small) and pet attack speed.
Having multiple haste procs active at once, that is where we get into trouble. In LFR the other day I got a 4-set proc combined with a Starcatcher Compass proc. Then some mage popped Time Warp and there I was, a Cobra Shot time of 0.42 seconds or something. Now that’s a waste of haste!
Before T13, haste was usually preferred over mastery. But the tier 13 2-set bonus seems to put haste and mastery much closer to one another. My personal experience is that as well. I’ve run with both crit > mastery > haste and crit > haste > mastery builds, and my dps doesn’t seem to be much different.
I already simmed it, goes in the category of "doesn't change a damn thing". I wasn't necessarily expecting it to work, just asking the question, because under the focus system DPET and DPF of individual shots aren't always telling enough to decide on a "good" shot priority. Always worth exploring these things.
The premise was that dumping with KC during dynamic haste effects shifts more activity into CoS, which actually benefits from all that haste (while ArS does not). However, as someone pointed out the loss of mastery benefit nullifies that gain.
The difference in DPS between standard priority, and dumping with KC while under a large dynamic haste effect, was within simcraft's 99% confidence interval margin of error (on 25k runs). In smaller words, it doesn't make a noticeable difference.
So in the end, what custom lag tolerance would you recommend with a latency <50 ms? I was also thinking about the "cast on button down" feature. Is a good thing to enable it, and is it linked to custom lag tolerance somehow?
Regarding the upcoming hunter changes in 4.3.2 and having played MM since the SV nerf at the start of cataclym with my alt hunter and being SV again: will the changed BA, same overall damage but 20 sec duration instead of 15 and ticking every 2 sec instead of 3, effectively increasing the DPET by one third and doubling the amount of ticks from 5 to 10, be better than immolation trap on single targets? Has anyone done a short analysis of it?
There are only 10 types of people... those who understand binary and those who don't.
Servus Hamsda, BA didnt get any damage buff, it only will last longer (20s) and tick more often (roughly every 2s).
Black Arrow instantly dealing 750 damage and dealing and additional 2850 Shadow damage, and scales with 13.3% RAP
Trap has a small base damage (29 per tick) but with a 54.5% RAP coefficient.
If I'm half as good in math as I think, with 9194,4444 RAP will Trap be deal more dmg as BA. Got numbers from patch 4.2 for BA and Trap out of the first post in this thread. (pls report if numbers are false!) And as DPF, trap is even higher as BA, but focus didnt really matter this tier.
Though we will likely still want to launch traps if we can predict that our target isnt moving.
I think you both guys are talking about Explosive trap and not Immolation trap. Immo trap deals ridiculous damage.
Explosive trap deals roughly half the damage of BA on single target, there is no reason anymore to keep using it (if there was a reason on 4.3, 99% of progressing hunters where not using it but on Yor'sahj) on single target, now that both spells have the same chance to procc LnL
DPET on BA has not changed, it deals exactly the same damage as before for the same cast time (1 GCD)